Unofficial S2 Presidential Poll

[Dumpy]

there are disgruntled Clinton appointees at all levels of government who whine or sabotage things to make the administration look bad.

It is customary for political appointees to resign when a new administration takes over. You are talking about career civil service people, who have no axe to grind. They just want to do their job as best they can, to serve the American people the best they can. They take their direction from the political appointees, who are expected to understand and be passionate about the agency's mission. Career civil service employees fully understand that the priorities and policies of their agency and department shift with a new administration. There is no "animosity." It is part of the democratic process. They just expect to be able to do their job to the best of their ability, to advise leadership of policies and programs, and to be able to do so without outside interference.

 

[Dumpy]

The devil we know are Obama's supporters and advisors.

no, you are comparing Bush to a hypothetical Gore or Kerry administration: "Maybe it sucks, but it would suck worse if Gore or Kerry were in office."

Regardless, Bush's administration will be remembered for Katrina; and whatever ultimately happens w/r/t Iraq, Afghanistan, and this mortgage crisis. I suspect he will go down as one of the worst ten presidents, but it is too early to tell at this point.

 

[Denny Crane]

It is customary for political appointees to resign when a new administration takes over. You are talking about career civil service people, who have no axe to grind. They just want to do their job as best they can, to serve the American people the best they can. They take their direction from the political appointees, who are expected to understand and be passionate about the agency's mission. Career civil service employees fully understand that the priorities and policies of their agency and department shift with a new administration. There is no "animosity." It is part of the democratic process. They just expect to be able to do their job to the best of their ability, to advise leadership of policies and programs, and to be able to do so without outside interference.

Not entirely true.

There are career civil service workers. Clearly if they don't like this administration, they've spoken up. Richard Clark ring a bell? In fact, many in the CIA. Valerie Plame and her husband are two more. How about Richard Armitage? Or the federal prosecutors who were fired?

It's just absurd that people check their partisanship or ambition at the steps of their govt. offices.

 

[Black Republican]

What are yall opinons on the bailout?

 

[Dumpy]

Not entirely true.

There are career civil service workers. Clearly if they don't like this administration, they've spoken up. Richard Clark ring a bell? In fact, many in the CIA. Valerie Plame and her husband are two more. How about Richard Armitage? Or the federal prosecutors who were fired?

It's just absurd that people check their partisanship or ambition at the steps of their govt. offices.

there are at least half a million government employees in the DC area and you've named three. Hooray.

The federal prosecutors were fired because they complained when they were prevented from doing their jobs. The amount of intereference from the white house in this administration has been unprecedented.

 

[Denny Crane]

no, you are comparing Bush to a hypothetical Gore or Kerry administration: "Maybe it sucks, but it would suck worse if Gore or Kerry were in office."

Regardless, Bush's administration will be remembered for Katrina; and whatever ultimately happens w/r/t Iraq, Afghanistan, and this mortgage crisis. I suspect he will go down as one of the worst ten presidents, but it is too early to tell at this point.

Katrina was like the worst disaster in US history. Maybe the chicago fire or the SF earthquake were worse. Or one of the pandemics that govt. couldn't stop. On top of the size of the disaster, the idiots (hey, they were Democrats!) in the governor's office and mayor's office bungled the situation beyond belief.

 

[Denny Crane]

there are at least half a million government employees in the DC area and you've named three. Hooray.

The federal prosecutors were fired because they complained when they were prevented from doing their jobs. The amount of intereference from the white house in this administration has been unprecedented.

How about the guy from NASA who complained about being censored?

I think you need to name 5 people who actually aren't partisan in those jobs

Actually, it doesn't matter. That I can name 5 partisans proves my point.

 

[Dumpy]

Katrina was like the worst disaster in US history. Maybe the chicago fire or the SF earthquake were worse. Or one of the pandemics that govt. couldn't stop. On top of the size of the disaster, the idiots (hey, they were Democrats!) in the governor's office and mayor's office bungled the situation beyond belief.

Maybe. I just see the billions of dollars that have gone to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure in the years since Katrina, while our own citizens still live in trailers.

 

[Dumpy]

How about the guy from NASA who complained about being censored?

I think you need to name 5 people who actually aren't partisan in those jobs

Actually, it doesn't matter. That I can name 5 partisans proves my point.

I don't have the memory for such things.

 

[CelticKing]

^ Dumpy, you really think the US Govt is dumb in what they're doing with Iraq? They're 20 years ahead of our thinking with their planning. 20 to 30 years down the road it will go down in history as the best move to go to Iraq and remain there.

As for Katrina, I blame the people of New Orleans a lot. I was at home watching the hurricane on tv 48 hours before it reached, they talked about how big it was, etc, that people needed to evacuate, and no-one did.

 

[Denny Crane]

Maybe. I just see the billions of dollars that have gone to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure in the years since Katrina, while our own citizens still live in trailers.

That photo has got to hurt, if you can't answer it.

I haven't seen congress pass some huge spending bill to rebuild New Orleans and put these people into homes. Oh yeah, they have. It wasn't vetoed, either. And weren't the MoveOn.org crowd bashing the administration for buying those trailers and never using them?

It doesn't seem to be an issue of not having enough money because of Iraq.

Next?

 

[Dumpy]

^ Dumpy, you really think the US Govt is dumb in what they're doing with Iraq? They're 20 years ahead of our thinking with their planning. 20 to 30 years down the road it will go down in history as the best move to go to Iraq and remain there.

As for Katrina, I blame the people of New Orleans a lot. I was at home watching the hurricane on tv 48 hours before it reached, they talked about how big it was, etc, that people needed to evacuate, and no-one did.

as I said, (or tried to), historians won't be able to accurately judge Bush's presidency until "what ultimately happens" with Iraq, etc. We don't know yet. My personal belief is that he'll be remembered as a horrible president, but the book hasn't been (completely) written yet.

 

[Dumpy]

That photo has got to hurt, if you can't answer it.

I haven't seen congress pass some huge spending bill to rebuild New Orleans and put these people into homes. Oh yeah, they have. It wasn't vetoed, either. And weren't the MoveOn.org crowd bashing the administration for buying those trailers and never using them?

It doesn't seem to be an issue of not having enough money because of Iraq.

Next?

sorry, what photo?

again, Katrina is one of the events that Bush will ultimately be judged by. You seem to think that he and his administration did a passable job. Let's wait to hear from the historians.

 

[CelticKing]

sorry, what photo?

again, Katrina is one of the events that Bush will ultimately be judged by. You seem to think that he and his administration did a passable job. Let's wait to hear from the historians.

No he won't. Bush had nothing to do with Katrina, and should get the blame for it. Blame the Louisiana govt, from the governor all the way down, from the New Orleans mayor to the people living in it.

Liberals want to blame Bush, because that's all they know how to do, is just blame the other side/aisle.

 

[Denny Crane]

sorry, what photo?

again, Katrina is one of the events that Bush will ultimately be judged by. You seem to think that he and his administration did a passable job. Let's wait to hear from the historians.

The photo of the unused school buses that could have evacuated all those people that were stuck there.

Katrina was so huge and violent it was scary. When it was in the gulf, you could see it was as large as about 10 of the southern states. There was plenty of warning.

FEMA is exactly one of those agencies filled with those honorable civil service workers. If anyone should know, all they are is a couple thousand accountants with not much more ability than to write checks after the fact.

 

[Brand New]

Fuck em all, Go Clinton!

 

[Dumpy]

No he won't. Bush had nothing to do with Katrina, and should get the blame for it. Blame the Louisiana govt, from the governor all the way down, from the New Orleans mayor to the people living in it.

Liberals want to blame Bush, because that's all they know how to do, is just blame the other side/aisle.

This has got to be one of the more ironic posts I've seen in a while. You are placing all the blame on the Lousiana governement, and then say that the liberals "just blame the other side." Kettle, meet pot.

 

[Denny Crane]

This has got to be one of the more ironic posts I've seen in a while. You are placing all the blame on the Lousiana governement, and then say that the liberals "just blame the other side." Kettle, meet pot.

Yeah, I agree that saying "all liberals blah blah" isn't very constructive.

 

[Dumpy]

The photo of the unused school buses that could have evacuated all those people that were stuck there.

Katrina was so huge and violent it was scary. When it was in the gulf, you could see it was as large as about 10 of the southern states. There was plenty of warning.

FEMA is exactly one of those agencies filled with those honorable civil service workers. If anyone should know, all they are is a couple thousand accountants with not much more ability than to write checks after the fact.

Bush placed in inexperienced man at the helm of FEMA. As Katrina approached, Brown later claimed that he asked the White House for permission to take certain measures, and was ignored, I believe. I don't remember the details, and it doesn't matter. Nero is remembered for fiddling while Rome burned. Was he responsible for the fire? Was it even true? DId he take action afterwards to contain the damage? Rightly or wrongly, that's what he is judged by, and so it will be for Bush.

 

[huevonkiller]

Fuck em all, Go Clinton!

Obama is pretty similar so thanks I guess. : ]

 

[Denny Crane]

Bush placed in inexperienced man at the helm of FEMA. As Katrina approached, Brown later claimed that he asked the White House for permission to take certain measures, and was ignored, I believe. I don't remember the details, and it doesn't matter. Nero is remembered for fiddling while Rome burned. Was he responsible for the fire? Was it even true? DId he take action afterwards to contain the damage? Rightly or wrongly, that's what he is judged by, and so it will be for Bush.

What Katrina did was expose govt. for being as useless as I think it is.

The only difference if Kerry or Gore were in there is that the press would have been cheerleading for the effort.

BTW, there is a recent book that came out (I can google for it if you like) about disasters like Katrina in general. Their finding is that govt. doesn't do much and it's the local people helping each other that makes any difference at all.

 

[Dumpy]

What Katrina did was expose govt. for being as useless as I think it is.

The only difference if Kerry or Gore were in there is that the press would have been cheerleading for the effort.

BTW, there is a recent book that came out (I can google for it if you like) about disasters like Katrina in general. Their finding is that govt. doesn't do much and it's the local people helping each other that makes any difference at all.

Kerry or Gore would similarly have been judged on their reactions to the crisis. Who knows what would have been the same, or what would have been different. Who knows if Louisiana would have become a Republican stronghold after Gore or Kerry bungled post-Katrina clean-up efforts. All we know is that we are all judged by how we act and react to the extraordinary events that happen to us and around us--whether it is people like us, or public figures. And yes, part of how we are judged is according to everyone's ideal, whether realistic or not. Here's an appropriate quote:

Frodo: I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.
Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.

 

[Денг Гордон]

The only reason why it isn't a blowout for McCain is because some of America doesn't want a white guy running the country.


The bolded part, was in the usa today article, I think I saw it yesterday or something like that talking about how 95% of African Americans will vote for Obama, and I bet 99% of them are doing it because he's black.

This is utterly ridiculous.

Probably 82% of African Americans aren't voting for Obama because he is black. Obama will probably get 95.5% of the African American vote, just my prediction. I would say that a good 80% of the blacks that support Obama, aren't doing it because they are black. 80% are doing it just because he is Democrat. Blacks have long supported WHITE democrats with around 86% of their vote. And that only 80% figure is with me making the assumption that all blacks that join Obama campaign (whether they voted other than Democrat or are newly registered), are voting for Obama only because he is black. Many of the newly registered black voters that will vote for Obama probably are voting for him because he is Democrat as well.

I think there is a valid argument that blacks only voted for Obama because he was black in the DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES. But to say this about the general election is ridiculous.

 

[Denny Crane]

Kerry or Gore would similarly have been judged on their reactions to the crisis. Who knows what would have been the same, or what would have been different. Who knows if Louisiana would have become a Republican stronghold after Gore or Kerry bungled post-Katrina clean-up efforts. All we know is that we are all judged by how we act and react to the extraordinary events that happen to us and around us--whether it is people like us, or public figures. And yes, part of how we are judged is according to everyone's ideal, whether realistic or not. Here's an appropriate quote:

Frodo: I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.
Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.

Let's see... what did Bush do with the time given to him?

He tackled some of the biggest issues facing the world in his time. Including WMD proliferation, education, AIDS in africa, our Social Security system (3rd rail), fought global terrorism and basically destroyed al qaeda, added a prescription drug benefit to medicare to help the elderly, numerous reforms of corporate governance and oversight, signed campaign finance reform into law, oversaw the largest reorganization of govt. since the new deal (homeland defense), tried to fix fannie mae and freddie mac in 2003 with great foresight, and established democracy and freed 25M people from tyranical rule in the middle east.

He's nowhere close to the worst president in history. I give him an A for effort and tackling the really big ticket things, and a B- for his accomplishments, and an F for his communication skills. And I'm not hardly a big fan of his. This is likely how historians are going to see his presidency, after the lense of partisanship is gone.

BTW, I am a bigger fan of Clinton and can name a number of positive things he did to go with my diatribe about the things he had in common with Nixon and you claim with Bush.

 

[J_Ray]

If Kid Chocolate was running, I'd vote for him and think he could be a great dictator with the likes of Hitler & Stalin, but since he's not running, I'm not going to vote

All seriousness, I want Obama to win but he's destined to get assassinated by some southern hick because of stubborn people in our country are still racist. I'm not going to vote though....

 

[Kid Chocolate]

If Kid Chocolate was running, I'd vote for him and think he could be a great dictator with the likes of Hitler & Stalin, but since he's not running, I'm not going to vote

Yea right! I'm a libertarian.

 

[cpawfan]

Obama is pretty similar so thanks I guess. : ]

So you are saying Obama has horrible taste in women and likes to "cigar" interns?

 

[huevonkiller]

So you are saying Obama has horrible taste in women and likes to "cigar" interns?

Nope, just facetiously pointing out what is wrong with Hillary supporters. : ]

 

[cpawfan]

Nope, just facetiously pointing out what is wrong with Hillary supporters. : ]

Well, if you could point out something right about them, then it would be funny

 

[CelticKing]

This has got to be one of the more ironic posts I've seen in a while. You are placing all the blame on the Lousiana governement, and then say that the liberals "just blame the other side." Kettle, meet pot.

So you had nothing else to say on my comment?


That's what I thought Dumpy.