US Airstrikes Against ISIS Targets Under Way in Syria

[RR7]

Since you apparently don't know what "no opinion" means, it means that I neither endorse nor condemn the air strikes. I recognize that it's one reasonable approach, but I'm not sure that it's the best one, nor am I sure that there's a better option.

Using a nuclear weapon isn't really in the constellation of reasonable approaches, so I'd condemn that.

You're either for or against god Damnit! Take a side!

 

[Denny Crane]

I consider it dangerous thinking when people pretend to have very certain, knowledgeable opinions on things they have no training to deal with.

I also have no opinion on much of the research at CERN, because I don't have an advanced physics degree. It's silly to act like we are all qualified to have serious opinions on everything, whether it's an important issue or not. You're free to "have an opinion" even if you have no real knowledge or experience in making such decisions. I'm free to think your opinion is probably uninformed.

But you opposed W invading Iraq, right?

Thus blindly fits.

 

[Minstrel]

But you opposed W invading Iraq, right?

I didn't actually. I waited to see how it played out and then criticized Bush for going to war on what turned out to be flimsy evidence. Having no way to evaluate the truth claims (since I am not privy to CIA reports and such), I have no ability to decide the merits of a case until the information comes out, one way or the other.

I know it stupefies blowhards like you not to shout opinions with 100% certitude every step of the way, but it's actually smart in cases where you don't have all the information.

 

[Minstrel]

Holding "no opinion" is giving our government the right to do what they see fit without recourse. "Your opinion" is the "checks and balances" our constitution talks about

Giving uninformed opinions isn't what "checks and balances" mean. Checks and balances apply to the branches of government, who have far better information than individual citizens, checking the power of each other.

Your "no recourse" thing is also clearly silly. Whether I agree or disagree with an action, neither I nor anyone else outside of Congress can immediately remove a politician from office. Recourse for politicians is being voted out, which can be done after seeing what they do, what the results are and what information they turned out to have. You know, informed voting.

Or you can pretend to already know what's going to happen.

 

[magnifier661]

Giving uninformed opinions isn't what "checks and balances" mean. Checks and balances apply to the branches of government, who have far better information than individual citizens, checking the power of each other.

Your "no recourse" thing is also clearly silly. Whether I agree or disagree with an action, neither I nor anyone else outside of Congress can immediately remove a politician from office. Recourse for politicians is being voted out, which can be done after seeing what they do, what the results are and what information they turned out to have. You know, informed voting.

Or you can pretend to already know what's going to happen.

I don't know everything that is happening, but I definitely have an opinion on the matter. And that is hardly a foolish way of thinking. I want to make sure our government knows there are concerned citizens that want our government to stay on their toes. Having "no opinion" doesn't do that for them. If you wait for all the information, it maybe too late. The damage will already be done and it's too late.

We can use the GW invasion of Iraq as reference. You waited until it was too late to make your "opinion" count. The damage was already done

 

[Minstrel]

We can use the GW invasion of Iraq as reference. You waited until it was too late to make your "opinion" count. The damage was already done

Yes, absolutely. If I had said on an internet message forum that I was against it, even before I was against it, the Iraq invasion would never have happened.

All the lives lost in that war are on my head, and I accept that.

And yet I still have no opinion on these air strikes currently.

 

[magnifier661]

Yes, absolutely. If I had said on an internet message forum that I was against it, even before I was against it, the Iraq invasion would never have happened.

All the lives lost in that war are on my head, and I accept that.

And yet I still have no opinion on these air strikes currently.

You can make a hyperbole response all you want, but it's not just you. The combined voice of hundreds of millions of Americans speak loud. It's those that think like you that make the voice less powerful.

This "message board" is just explaining your lack of concern, with openly admitting that you have no opinion until the damage is already done.

 

[Denny Crane]

I didn't actually. I waited to see how it played out and then criticized Bush for going to war on what turned out to be flimsy evidence. Having no way to evaluate the truth claims (since I am not privy to CIA reports and such), I have no ability to decide the merits of a case until the information comes out, one way or the other.

I know it stupefies blowhards like you not to shout opinions with 100% certitude every step of the way, but it's actually smart in cases where you don't have all the information.

What did you think when Clinton said Saddam had WMDs? When he said he had them within months of leaving office? When he said he had them within days of W's decision?

I think you duck the question because it shows you change your mind with the party in the executive office.

 

[Minstrel]

You can make a hyperbole response all you want, but it's not just you.

It is just me. And people shouldn't speak up for or against something when they aren't sure. That's stupid.

It's also stupid to be sure on every topic, no matter how complex.

 

[magnifier661]

It is just me. And people shouldn't speak up for or against something when they aren't sure. That's stupid.

It's also stupid to be sure on every topic, no matter how complex.

Do you have all the information on the GW invasion? I would bet not... Yet here you are with an opinion on the matter.

 

[Minstrel]

I think you duck the question because it shows you change your mind with the party in the executive office.

That's cool, man. You're free to have all the uninformed beliefs you want. This is America* and, if there's one thing I have an opinion on, it's that everyone is free to believe what they want.


*For all intents and purposes, I will call this forum "America"

 

[Minstrel]

Do you have all the information on the GW invasion? I would bet not... Yet here you are with an opinion on the matter.

Indeed. I don't need "all" the information, because we never have "all" the information on anything (outside of human-created systems like math, language, etc). I need enough information to have an opinion and I don't currently have that regarding the air strikes.

I'm sure there will be quite a bit of analysis on this in the coming months and in the aftermath and I'll read those and see if I end up with an opinion. I may not. Sometimes, even after the fact, it's not clear whether an action was good or bad. That's life.

 

[magnifier661]

Indeed. I don't need "all" the information, because we never have "all" the information on anything (outside of human-created systems like math, language, etc). I need enough information to have an opinion and I don't currently have that regarding the air strikes.

I'm sure there will be quite a bit of analysis on this in the coming months and in the aftermath and I'll read those and see if I end up with an opinion. I may not. Sometimes, even after the fact, it's not clear whether an action was good or bad. That's life.

Okay I get it... You like to talk about things that have already happened, then gather the information to make the Historian type response. Your opinion will have no benefit, good or bad, on the pressing matter because you don't want to feel accountable for the action or "be wrong". Sounds about right?

 

[Minstrel]

Okay I get it... You like to talk about things that have already happened, then gather the information to make the Historian type response. Your opinion will have no benefit, good or bad, on the pressing matter because you don't want to feel accountable for the action or "be wrong". Sounds about right?

I prefer my opinions to be based on something.

 

[magnifier661]

I prefer my opinions to be based on something.

Opinions "can be" based on something... Your political stance and how this may effect that stance, concerns with the hypothetical murder of innocent people, or Is the government doing their "due diligence"? They are all something. All somethings that you can voice publicly without sounding like an idiot. Just because you "don't have all the answers" doesn't mean you can't voice those opinions publicly and even be outspoken to your political party of those very same concerns.

 

[Denny Crane]

That's cool, man. You're free to have all the uninformed beliefs you want. This is America* and, if there's one thing I have an opinion on, it's that everyone is free to believe what they want.


*For all intents and purposes, I will call this forum "America"

Well, you expressed an uninformed opinion about Burger King and taxes. You suggested they were evading taxes (which is a crime), even. You express such opinions quite often.

So excuse me for seeing through your dodge this time.

I'll say it. I'm not for the bombing of Syria and Iraq. Not for arming either side.

It's a civil war and it's not anything we have to do with.

 

[MarAzul]

I wrote to Senator Wyden about this not long ago. Seems like a Civil war to me, maybe we should sit this out, let the Sunnis and Shia sort this out for a while.
It didn't do any good, he voted to arm the ones in Syria. I also told him I didn't hear anyone describe what victory was. Didn't do any good.

I think we are in deep shit.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Wasting money we don't have to kill people who only hate us because we are killing them.

The USA is like that dude at the club with his shirt off, after already kicking someone's ass yelling "who else wanna fuck with Hollywood court!?"

 

[3RA1N1AC]

On the bright side, I'm sure all the women and children we explode will make for great martyrs for the war in *insert brown country* 5 years from now

 

[Minstrel]

Well, you expressed an uninformed opinion about Burger King and taxes. You suggested they were evading taxes (which is a crime), even.

I was using the word "evading" in its literal sense, not its legalistic sense. If you prefer tax "avoidance," as the Wikipedia article you quoted used, that's fine by me.

What are you claiming I'm dodging? I wasn't for or against Bush's war at the time and I'm not for or against Obama's war now. Doesn't seem partisan to me.

I understand that you're just venting now. You screamed at me about "blindly" endorsing Obama's air strikes, then you felt stupid when it turned out that I wasn't endorsing them and you're now dealing with feeling stupid by going on the offensive. It's textbook.

 

[BigGameDamian]

[video=youtube;JBY-531bKvw]

 

[Denny Crane]

I was using the word "evading" in its literal sense, not its legalistic sense. If you prefer tax "avoidance," as the Wikipedia article you quoted used, that's fine by me.

What are you claiming I'm dodging? I wasn't for or against Bush's war at the time and I'm not for or against Obama's war now. Doesn't seem partisan to me.

I understand that you're just venting now. You screamed at me about "blindly" endorsing Obama's air strikes, then you felt stupid when it turned out that I wasn't endorsing them and you're now dealing with feeling stupid by going on the offensive. It's textbook.

If you're not against it, you're for it. That's sort of the default position since we're bombing in Syria and Iraq now. I get it. If the war goes well, you're for it.

What's wrong with tax avoidance. I plan so I can avoid paying taxes, like everyone else. That is, if there's a tax break I'm eligible for, I claim it.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Denny, you should set up a forum for ISIS. ISIS2.com! Marazul will moderate for you.

 

[barfo]

I wrote to Senator Wyden about this not long ago.

Of course you did.

It didn't do any good

Imagine that.

barfo

 

[magnifier661]

Of course you did.



Imagine that.

barfo

Do you support the bombing?

 

[barfo]

Do you support the bombing?

What bombing?

barfo

 

[magnifier661]

What bombing?

barfo

Read the article. Do you post in threads you know nothing about?

 

[barfo]

Read the article. Do you post in threads you know nothing about?

Don't you?

barfo

 

[magnifier661]

Don't you?

barfo

No... I at least try and understand the thread before I post. Don't you?

 

[barfo]

No... I at least try and understand the thread before I post. Don't you?

Why would I?

barfo