Va. Tech shooting massacre

[Chutney]

I don't want to turn this into a gun control debate, but that's a simplistic argument. There needs to be better registration, enforcement of the laws, and more emphasis on controlling the illegal gun trade. It's not the only reason for this shooting, but it tends to be the constant with all these school shootings.

 

[Mamba]

That I do completely agree with. But to ban guns is idiotic, it'll never pass.

 

[Chutney]

No doubt. Just banning something that's become a problem is usually unrealistic and too simplistic (eg: the war on drugs).

 

[J_Ray]

I was in shock when I heard about this, I feel sorry for all the families that took a blow today and send out my best wishes for them.

After I was thinking about this, I was wondering if the school would refund families all the tuition that they've paid while there or at least some since it was on campus.

 

[igotask8board]

^I thought I was the only one who was in shock. 32 college students?

 

[NTC]

<div class="quote_poster">Sasha Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Uh...to protect yourself. You are aware that the world is a scary place, right? Sometimes action by force needs to be taken.</div>

Protecting yourself from what? You dont live in Iraq or West Africa, you have no immediate threat to be fearful of.

 

[Mamba]

NTC, I sometimes agree with you, but c'mon man, are you serious? No immediate threat? Do you think these young adults at VT thought they were safe? I sure as hell would assume they did. There's always going to be a threat, whether it's immediate or not. Having the right to protect yourself and save your life is very valuable. For some idiots who want to completely ban guns, they need to recognize that. (I'm not calling you an idiot)

 

[AKIRA]

when you stop and really think how the families of the people killed feel right now, it is something so strong that i find myself really overwhelmed with sadness that something this horrible can happen. these people were so young and with their whole lives ahead of them. i hope the victims families find love and content in the rest of their lives after such a tragic and terrible loss. this just proves again how unnessecary guns and weopons are, and shows the world what can happen in a country out of control and with such outragess laws (this isnt a knock on american people, only to the system america lives under, and im sorry if it offends some of you).

 

[NTC]

<div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">NTC, I sometimes agree with you, but c'mon man, are you serious? No immediate threat? Do you think these young adults at VT thought they were safe? I sure as hell would assume they did. There's always going to be a threat, whether it's immediate or not. Having the right to protect yourself and save your life is very valuable. For some idiots who want to completely ban guns, they need to recognize that. (I'm not calling you an idiot)</div>

We both live in first world countries, we're not living in warzones, what are you so fearful of that makes you feel as though you need to have a gun to protect yourself? The only person I know who owns a gun, is my Grandfather, but he is a hunter.

My family doesnt own a gun, and I'm not fearful of anything happening because I dont own one either. Do I know the world is an ugly place? Of course, but that doesnt give me enough reason to warrant owning a firearm. My family is safe, in our home we are safe, and just because we dont own a firearm doesnt mean we arent protected. There are other ways to protect yourself and your family without owning a gun. Owning a gun doesnt necessarily mean you're safe anyway!

Let me say one thing right now, I'm not against guns, and I understand that the majority of Americans are responsible registered firearm owners, however, it is incidents such as this one, the columbine massacre, the Amish school shooting etc. etc. etc. that I do have a problem with. Thats what I care about. I want to see these kind of things stop, and I know that you do too, but I'm getting this impression you would rather keep your guns than give them up to stop incidents such as this from happening.

I understand it takes a hell of alot more than simply owning a gun to make some one a killer, but as they are being so freely distributed amongst your communities, the risks are increasing for possible incidents. Guns seem to be readily available in America.

I'm not even suggesting outlawing guns completley, but why not at least heavily bolster the registration process, I dont know what the current process is like now, but its obviously not very in depth. Like I said, I'm concerned about the lives of those who have been lost in incidents such as the one that took place today, no one should have to lose their life in such a tragedy. I want this type of thing to stop (or at least dramatically decline).

If gun control works in other countries, why wouldnt it work for America? You're all in fear of yourselves.

Heres a fun fact for you too by the way, Australia actually holds the record (not that this is anything to be proud of, but I didnt know this until today) for the single largest gun related massacre. The Port Arthur Massacre back in 1996 (the year I moved to Australia) is the largest, with 35 people killed, and 37 wounded.

 

[phunDamentalz]

NTC is right. The only reason you might need a gun is because others have guns. Reduce the people's access to guns and you reduce your own need for a gun. A crazy person without a gun is a lot less dangerous than a crazy person with a gun. There are a lot of crazy, not to mention drunk lol, people in other countries, but this kind of thing never happens, because in the heat of the moment, they can't access a gun to carry through on whatever emotion they're feeling at the time. So if you're really MAD at someone, instead of shooting the person, you might say punch them in the face. Incidents like this are going to happen in America naturally because of the availability of guns and there's not much people can do to stop it. So in other words, America, you shouldn't be shocked, you shouldn't say "how can this happen?", because its obvious how it happens, it is a natural result of your domestic policy on guns.

 

[bbwchingy0007]

You couldn't ban guns anyway, because people who would use them for bad reasons will keep them to use them, whilst those that want them for other reasons may well hand them in. Also, there would still be a black market, as there is in the UK whereby you could get a gun pretty much anywhere in certain areas.

 

[M Two One]

The gunman has been identified as South Korean immigrant Cho Seung-Hui.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">WASHINGTON - The Virginia Tech student identified as the assailant in Monday's deadly gun rampage was a South Korean immigrant who had been in the United States since 1992 and who held a green card signifying his status as a legal permanent U.S. resident, federal officials said Tuesday.

Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old English major, was listed with a home address in Centreville, Va, a suburb of Washington, D.C., not far from Dulles International Airport.

Immigration records maintained by the Department of
South Korea on Jan. 18, 1984 and entered the United States through Detroit on Sept. 2, 1992. He had last renewed his green card on Oct. 27, 2003.</div>

Source

 

[I-Miss-MJ]

<div class="quote_poster">NTC Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">We both live in first world countries, we're not living in warzones, what are you so fearful of that makes you feel as though you need to have a gun to protect yourself? The only person I know who owns a gun, is my Grandfather, but he is a hunter.

My family doesnt own a gun, and I'm not fearful of anything happening because I dont own one either. Do I know the world is an ugly place? Of course, but that doesnt give me enough reason to warrant owning a firearm. My family is safe, in our home we are safe, and just because we dont own a firearm doesnt mean we arent protected. There are other ways to protect yourself and your family without owning a gun. Owning a gun doesnt necessarily mean you're safe anyway!

Let me say one thing right now, I'm not against guns, and I understand that the majority of Americans are responsible registered firearm owners, however, it is incidents such as this one, the columbine massacre, the Amish school shooting etc. etc. etc. that I do have a problem with. Thats what I care about. I want to see these kind of things stop, and I know that you do too, but I'm getting this impression you would rather keep your guns than give them up to stop incidents such as this from happening.

I understand it takes a hell of alot more than simply owning a gun to make some one a killer, but as they are being so freely distributed amongst your communities, the risks are increasing for possible incidents. Guns seem to be readily available in America.

I'm not even suggesting outlawing guns completley, but why not at least heavily bolster the registration process, I dont know what the current process is like now, but its obviously not very in depth. Like I said, I'm concerned about the lives of those who have been lost in incidents such as the one that took place today, no one should have to lose their life in such a tragedy. I want this type of thing to stop (or at least dramatically decline).

If gun control works in other countries, why wouldnt it work for America? You're all in fear of yourselves.

Heres a fun fact for you too by the way, Australia actually holds the record (not that this is anything to be proud of, but I didnt know this until today) for the single largest gun related massacre. The Port Arthur Massacre back in 1996 (the year I moved to Australia) is the largest, with 35 people killed, and 37 wounded.</div>

I completely agree with you NTC.

As for guns moving to the black market how many students will be able to get their hands on one from there? Or general people?
Less people with guns = less shootings.

Simple logic.

 

[Mamba]

Do you know how easy it'd be for a released felon to get his hands on a gun on the Black Market? Guns on the black market would allow for ex-cons, gangs, murderers, crazy people, sick people, and all other F'd up people to get their hands on guns pretty god damn easy.

 

[Karma]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
We both live in first world countries, we're not living in warzones, what are you so fearful of that makes you feel as though you need to have a gun to protect yourself? The only person I know who owns a gun, is my Grandfather, but he is a hunter.

My family doesnt own a gun, and I'm not fearful of anything happening because I dont own one either. Do I know the world is an ugly place? Of course, but that doesnt give me enough reason to warrant owning a firearm. My family is safe, in our home we are safe, and just because we dont own a firearm doesnt mean we arent protected. There are other ways to protect yourself and your family without owning a gun. Owning a gun doesnt necessarily mean you're safe anyway!

Let me say one thing right now, I'm not against guns, and I understand that the majority of Americans are responsible registered firearm owners, however, it is incidents such as this one, the columbine massacre, the Amish school shooting etc. etc. etc. that I do have a problem with. Thats what I care about. I want to see these kind of things stop, and I know that you do too, but I'm getting this impression you would rather keep your guns than give them up to stop incidents such as this from happening.

I understand it takes a hell of alot more than simply owning a gun to make some one a killer, but as they are being so freely distributed amongst your communities, the risks are increasing for possible incidents. Guns seem to be readily available in America.

I'm not even suggesting outlawing guns completley, but why not at least heavily bolster the registration process, I dont know what the current process is like now, but its obviously not very in depth. Like I said, I'm concerned about the lives of those who have been lost in incidents such as the one that took place today, no one should have to lose their life in such a tragedy. I want this type of thing to stop (or at least dramatically decline).

If gun control works in other countries, why wouldnt it work for America? You're all in fear of yourselves.

Heres a fun fact for you too by the way, Australia actually holds the record (not that this is anything to be proud of, but I didnt know this until today) for the single largest gun related massacre. The Port Arthur Massacre back in 1996 (the year I moved to Australia) is the largest, with 35 people killed, and 37 wounded.
</div>

Thank you NTC. Great post, completely agree with you.

 

[miss3pointer25]

I found out that one kid at my school has an older brother that was on VA tech's campus. There was also a kid from another school around here that left his one class about 2 minutes before the shooting ensued. As he walked out, the cops were storming the building.

 

[J_Ray]

Did any of you guys see that he sent a package to NBC that they recieved yesterday with 29 pictures of him with his gun and knife to his head and throat? Then it had like 10 minutes of footage on a tape of him talking in korean or w/e he spoke. They translated a few lines and he was saying stuff like, "After this we'll never be able to clean the blood from our hands", and weird stuff like that. I heard they found poems in his room that were talking about how he would kill his dad by suffocating him with a rice crispy treat. This guy was weird and had tons of problems.

 

[miss3pointer25]

<div class="quote_poster">J_Ray Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Did any of you guys see that he sent a package to NBC that they recieved yesterday with 29 pictures of him with his gun and knife to his head and throat? Then it had like 10 minutes of footage on a tape of him talking in korean or w/e he spoke. They translated a few lines and he was saying stuff like, "After this we'll never be able to clean the blood from our hands", and weird stuff like that. I heard they found poems in his room that were talking about how he would kill his dad by suffocating him with a rice crispy treat. This guy was weird and had tons of problems.</div>


I watched some of the video on MSN. It was really disturbing and the pictures were really upsetting. This guy needed help.

 

[Pgballer17]

Watching some of his videos defintely made me feel sorry for him. He had some very serious problems that were not addressed.

 

[Mamba]

Needed help? How about he was just f'n insane. Don't make excuses for this asshole. Rehab wouldn't have helped him. His help was death, I'm glad he's dead. It's sickening that he had to take 32 people with him and hurt hundreds of others.

 

[NTC]

<div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Needed help? How about he was just f'n insane. Don't make excuses for this asshole. Rehab wouldn't have helped him. His help was death, I'm glad he's dead. It's sickening that he had to take 32 people with him and hurt hundreds of others.</div>

The kid was picked on bullied throughout most of his life, and while that doesnt justify what he did (what he did was simply unjustifiable), there are some people out there that can only take so much. The disturbing thing is, there are most likely hundreds of other kids out there in the same position as this guy was (and the Columbine gunmen), social outcasts with fear of nothing, they need to recieve help before more incidents like this happen in the future.

It's somthing that definatley needs to be looked into (along with the Gun Control issue)

 

[Chutney]

People aren't born crazy. I'm really against the idea that some people are just incurable. This dude needed psychological help badly and his professor realized it. It's just a shame that no one bothered to do anything until it was too late.

Another thing that I really wish didn't happen was the way all of his confessions and stuff were released straight to the media. They'll jump all over any opportunity to sensationalize something and be generally insenstive to the survivors of this tragedy.

 

[Bobcats]

Invalid Video Link

Crazy. The only reason I feel sorry for this guy is because he was schizophrenic.

 

[NTC]

I dont think people understand how harmful the effects of teasing and bullying are.

 

[B.e.]

Where did you read he was bullied all his life?

His great-aunt said he has been COLD all his life. His roomates in his freshman year tried being cool with him, his teachers tried to teach him one-on-one to get him to talk.

People also tried to do something, but what can you do to somebody who is just weird? Numerous people went to the police, but being weird isn't a crime. He never made a concreate threat for police to act on. And he did visit a mental facility.

The only thing that could have prevented this massacre was LOCKING DOWN the school after the first shooting. Those classes should have never have taken place after a hoimicide is on campus.

 

[Run BJM]

<div class="quote_poster">A.F. Venom Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Where did you read he was bullied all his life?

His great-aunt said he has been COLD all his life. His roomates in his freshman year tried being cool with him, his teachers tried to teach him one-on-one to get him to talk.

People also tried to do something, but what can you do to somebody who is just weird? Numerous people went to the police, but being weird isn't a crime. He never made a concreate threat for police to act on. And he did visit a mental facility.

The only thing that could have prevented this massacre was LOCKING DOWN the school after the first shooting. Those classes should have never have taken place after a hoimicide is on campus.</div>

I never heard that he was bullied either. The guy was mentally ill, hes not just a nerd who went crazy. He was deeply depressed and pretty much avoided contact with people, apparently he had an imaginary girlfriend too. It seems that eventually it led him to basically be living in a world apart from everyone else. He started a fire in his dorm room and stalked numerous girls, he was declared to be dangerous to himself and others by some psychiatrists, and yet the school ignored these problems and there was no record of any of these issues when the gun salesman did the background check to sell Cho the gun. People who are deemed a danger to others should be kept track of more closely and definitely shouldn't be allowed to purchase guns. Part of his craziness could be cultural as well. We don't know anything about his upbringing right now but he and his parents were from South Korea, maybe he was abused by his family and then didn't know how to handle himself in an uncontrolled, liberal environment. Not saying that its normal, he was obviously mentally ill, but I think many people who are abused and confined as children just don't know how to handle living in a free society.

I heard an interesting solution yesterday that I think would be fairly effective. Mental health records and things like that should be sent to the FBI to be put into an individual's file so that if they try to purchase a gun the background check will show that they are unstable and can't buy the gun. Its just absurd to me that this guy was allowed to live like anyone else on campus when he was deemed by a doctor to be a danger to others. He should have had mandatory counseling, psychiatric help, medication for depression, maybe even be expelled from school.

I also think the school not locking down the campus is over dramatized. If the school were to lock down the school would it have been locked down for 2 hours? Especially the halls on the opposite side of the school from the first shooting? I don't know if I've ever heard of a gunman killing 2 people, fleeing the scene, then coming back and killing 30 more people. Its just something no one could predict. Even if the school was locked down this guy probably would have gone for people in the parking lot or some other area. It sounds like maybe this guy snapped and killed the two first victims in an unplanned murder then decided since he already shot 2 people he might as well go on this rampage he had been preparing for that day. Weird stuff.

 

[Skiptomylue11]

The guy had Autism, and came from a poor family from South Korea. He was picked on in middle school and high school, because he couldn't speak English very well. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Wikipedia:</div><div class="quote_post">Davids said. "The whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, ‘Go back to China,’" Davids said. Another classmate, Stephanie Roberts, stated that "There were just some people who were really mean to him and they would push him down and laugh at him," and "He didn't speak English really well and they would really make fun of him."[37]</div>
Quotes from Cho Seung-hui:
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Wikipedia:</div><div class="quote_post">You have never felt a single ounce of pain your whole life. Did you want to inject as much misery in our lives as you can just because you can? ”
“ You had everything you wanted. Your Mercedes wasn’t enough, you brats. Your golden necklaces weren’t enough, you snobs. Your trust fund wasn’t enough. Your vodka and Cognac weren’t enough. All your debaucheries weren’t enough. Those weren’t enough to fulfill your hedonistic needs. You had everything. ”</div><div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I didn’t have to do this. I could have left. I could have fled. But no, I will no longer run. It’s not for me. For my children, for my brothers and sisters that you ****, I did it for them… When the time came, I did it. I had to.</div><div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You have vandalized my heart, raped my soul and torched my conscience. You thought it was one pathetic boy’s life you were extinguishing. Thanks to you, I die like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations of the weak and the defenseless people.</div><div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"But you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off."</div><div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You don't know how lucky you were, it all wasn't enough for you was it? </div><div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">“ This is it. This is where it all ends. End of the road. What a life it was. Some life.[57] ”</div>
After a while, his roomate wouldn't even try talking to the guy, and his roomate would tell his friends not to come by the room. The roomate had told stories about Cho to his friends, so obviously some people would think differently of the guy hearing bad stories about him.

 

[Mamba]

The guy was a freak. Studies have shown that rehabilitation doesn't work. Is that the person's fault? No, I'd put a good portion of the blame on rehab programs. Was this guy curable? F no. Once again, I'm glad the sick bastard is dead, I just wish he could've let 32 other people survive and end his own miserable, pathetic life.

 

[Shapecity]

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">People aren't born crazy. I'm really against the idea that some people are just incurable. This dude needed psychological help badly and his professor realized it. It's just a shame that no one bothered to do anything until it was too late.

Another thing that I really wish didn't happen was the way all of his confessions and stuff were released straight to the media. They'll jump all over any opportunity to sensationalize something and be generally insenstive to the survivors of this tragedy.</div>

Agreed, completely irresponsible to show those videos right after this tragedy. What's the point of showing them over and over again along with photo stills of this guy?

These are the images and hype that encourage other people to copycat the crime.

It gets the rumor mill going, and the facts get misconstrued.

 

[phunDamentalz]

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Agreed, completely irresponsible to show those videos right after this tragedy. What's the point of showing them over and over again along with photo stills of this guy?

These are the images and hype that encourage other people to copycat the crime.

It gets the rumor mill going, and the facts get misconstrued.</div>
What also annoys me even more is how the media immediately tries to blame someone - saying so-and-so psychotherapist had seen all the signs and had failed to do anything...
That's easy to do in retrospect. How many of us would be able to predict this were we in the situation? The thing about acts like this is the criminal is usually more than adept at hiding his plans, manipulating people, and keeping up the appearance of 'everything is fine'. Our society always wants to blame someone, but in this case, the blame should be pointed at 1) the kid who committed these acts and 2) a gun culture that allows easy access to guns to enable him to do it, NOT on authorities or therapists who could have stopped this from happening. Nobody can stop this kind of thing can happening.

It says a lot about where we are at as a society when this thing is not shocking to us. At least for me, anyway, none of this was shocking, the videos, the photos. I think with 9-11, the DC sniper, beheadings in Iraq, Abu Ghraib, I don't know WHAT would shock me at this point, but it would take more than this for sure........