VC: “The Next Team Has To Pay for It - Plain and Simple”

[NJNetz]

Trying to reignite the team pride that carried the Nets to their most successful west coast trip in years, Vince Carter has been telling his teammates, particularly Devin Harris, that whatever happened Tuesday night is “unacceptable”. Not exempting himself from criticism, VC added the only way to get back on track is to push hard Friday vs. Minnesota…or face the possibility of losing all that momentum.

Al Iannazzone - In the 'Zzone

 

[isrus]

He only says that because the Nets are playing Minnesota next

 

[jirohkanzaki]

He only says that because the Nets are playing Minnesota next

but he said it after losing by 20 to a team worse than the wolves and the worst team in the east...

 

[DevinNets34]

Winning over the bad teams is also important.

 

[YiOF]

it's not so much that Nets lost to the Wizard, it's the way we lost. we didn't really put up a fight.

 

[isrus]

but he said it after losing by 20 to a team worse than the wolves and the worst team in the east...

I was joking but i do expect the Nets to win the game.

 

[ghoti]

It's not like everyone and their brother didn't predict a loss. The whole pre-game show was dedicated to coming up with reasons why the Nets wouldn't lose.

The team isn't that good. These games will happen frequently. Everyone wants to rebuild and develop young players so live with it and enjoy it when they do well.

 

[Dumpy]

The team isn't that good. These games will happen frequently. Everyone wants to rebuild and develop young players so live with it and enjoy it when they do well.

The way I see it, the Nets just have two significant players that totally suck. The group of Devin/Vince/Brook*, Keyon/Hayes/Ryan/Najera**/Boone*** is pretty good, or good enough.

*: An average center at this point, but certainly good enough and not a hindrance
**: Fine, he's been hurt.
***: He's been hurt, and he has his limitations, but he's a decent backup center.

 

[Malorkayel]

The way I see it, the Nets just have two significant players that totally suck. The group of Devin/Vince/Brook*, Keyon/Hayes/Ryan/Najera**/Boone*** is pretty good, or good enough.

*: An average center at this point, but certainly good enough and not a hindrance
**: Fine, he's been hurt.
***: He's been hurt, and he has his limitations, but he's a decent backup center.

What were you expecting this year, a championship caliber team? We're lucking enough that Harris is playing beyond expectations. We're still ahead of schedule in the win/lose column.

 

[Dumpy]

What were you expecting this year, a championship caliber team? We're lucking enough that Harris is playing beyond expectations. We're still ahead of schedule in the win/lose column.

I think what I was expecting is pretty well known by now.

 

[ghoti]

The way I see it, the Nets just have two significant players that totally suck. The group of Devin/Vince/Brook*, Keyon/Hayes/Ryan/Najera**/Boone*** is pretty good, or good enough.

*: An average center at this point, but certainly good enough and not a hindrance
**: Fine, he's been hurt.
***: He's been hurt, and he has his limitations, but he's a decent backup center.

The Lakers are good.

The Nets are mediocre but heading in the right direction.

 

[Dumpy]

The Lakers are good.

The Nets are mediocre but heading in the right direction.

Here's one way (but not the only way) to look at it.

Devin
Vince
__
__
Brook

Keyon
CDR
Jarvis
Najera
Ryan
Boone

Now, in one of those blanks, add "Bosh." Add yourself in the other spot for all I care.

Now they are looking pretty good, aren't they?

Is that team as good as Detroit? Orlando? Cleveland? Boston? Or still worse than all of them?

Obviously, you know my POV, but for the others, I'm expecting a lot of inconsistency and 39 wins this season. BUT their inconsistency and mediocrity won't be due to a roster full of mediocre players. It'll be due to a lack of experience and a couple of big holes in the roster. If they do nothing, they will gradually play better, and will have a bright future next year. But, if instead they bundle all their assets (including some picks) and move them for a high-level forward, could they compete with some of the stronger teams this year? I don't know. Brook is going to get tired at some point and they don't have a veteran backup big man (Swift doesn't count). But it wouldn't be inconceivable.

 

[ghoti]

Here's one way (but not the only way) to look at it.

Devin
Vince
__
__
Brook

Keyon
CDR
Jarvis
Najera
Ryan
Boone

Now, in one of those blanks, add "Bosh." Add yourself in the other spot for all I care.

Now they are looking pretty good, aren't they?

Is that team as good as Detroit? Orlando? Cleveland? Boston? Or still worse than all of them?

Obviously, you know my POV, but for the others, I'm expecting a lot of inconsistency and 39 wins this season. BUT their inconsistency and mediocrity won't be due to a roster full of mediocre players. It'll be due to a lack of experience and a couple of big holes in the roster. If they do nothing, they will gradually play better, and will have a bright future next year. But, if instead they bundle all their assets (including some picks) and move them for a high-level forward, could they compete with some of the stronger teams this year? I don't know. Brook is going to get tired at some point and they don't have a veteran backup big man (Swift doesn't count). But it wouldn't be inconceivable.

We are saying the same thing.

But no matter what we think will happen eventually - right now, today, on December 4, 2008 - it's a middle-of-the-road NBA roster at best.

 

[Dumpy]

We are saying the same thing.

My way was cooler.

 

[Malorkayel]

My way was cooler.

Lamer not cooler, you basically said our forward production suck, which is stating the obvious. If you want more production from our forwards and bigs, run some damn plays for them. That's what some of the people are saying, less dribble drive offense and you'll get more production from the bigs. We're back to this chicken or the egg type argument.

 

[YiOF]

psshh... team on a hot streak, Nets are one player away from championship!

 

[Dumpy]

Lamer not cooler, you basically said our forward production suck, which is stating the obvious. If you want more production from our forwards and bigs, run some damn plays for them. That's what some of the people are saying, less dribble drive offense and you'll get more production from the bigs. We're back to this chicken or the egg type argument.

I'm talking about talent not production

 

[ghoti]

Lamer not cooler, you basically said our forward production suck, which is stating the obvious. If you want more production from our forwards and bigs, run some damn plays for them. That's what some of the people are saying, less dribble drive offense and you'll get more production from the bigs. We're back to this chicken or the egg type argument.

Why would you want to scrap a completely unique offense that's working in order to highlight some of the weakest players on the team?

The Nets have the most productive backcourt in the NBA. That's because of the coaching staff and the commitment of the entire team to learn and execute a system. (BTW, soon you'll see every team in the NBA copying at least some of the Nets' handoff offense.)

As the forwards develop, they'll get more than the occasional pick and roll/pop called for them. For now, the Nets have been able to win games and let the young guys get experience. It's a terrific balance.

 

[YiOF]

Why would you want to scrap a completely unique offense that's working in order to highlight some of the weakest players on the team?

The Nets have the most productive backcourt in the NBA. That's because of the coaching staff and the commitment of the entire team to learn and execute a system. (BTW, soon you'll see every team in the NBA copying at least some of the Nets' handoff offense.)

As the forwards develop, they'll get more than the occasional pick and roll/pop called for them. For now, the Nets have been able to win games and let the young guys get experience. It's a terrific balance.

yea, there is no reason to change before the league catch up with the unique offense. when other team decides to bring more players to help stop harris and carter, that's when other people will have their chances.

 

[Malorkayel]

People are starting to question if ANY forwards can be successful in this guard dominated offense. I don't see a guy like Bosh wanting to come here and play decoy.

 

[ghoti]

People are starting to question if ANY forwards can be successful in this guard dominated offense. I don't see a guy like Bosh wanting to come here and play decoy.

What frontcourt player is this system holding back? Brook Lopez is the talk of the league.

If the big men play well, they get plenty of easy baskets and opportunities to succeed.

Highlighting the best players makes everybody better. They way you want to do it is backwards.

 

[YiOF]

What frontcourt player is this system holding back? Brook Lopez is the talk of the league.

If the big men play well, they get plenty of easy baskets and opportunities to succeed.

Highlighting the best players makes everybody better. They way you want to do it is backwards.

Lopez is doing well when Nets ran low post plays for him, he does very well. In the Dribble drive offense, Lopez is a role player. In washington game, I didn't see a single low post play in meaningful minutes, he only had 4 points. He added 6 more in garbage time.

 

[ghoti]

Lopez is doing well when Nets ran low post plays for him, he does very well. In the Dribble drive offense, Lopez is a role player. In washington game, I didn't see a single low post play in meaningful minutes, he only had 4 points. He added 6 more in garbage time.

Again. The offense is clearly working. I'm not sure what the complaints are about.

Should they base the offense on what mood Chris Bosh may or may not be in two years from now?

 

[Netted]

Lopez is doing well when Nets ran low post plays for him, he does very well. In the Dribble drive offense, Lopez is a role player. In washington game, I didn't see a single low post play in meaningful minutes, he only had 4 points. He added 6 more in garbage time.

He had a number of touches in that game, but he wasn't establishing position close enough to the basket so he had to keep giving the ball up. That was on him, not the offense.

 

[Malorkayel]

I'm just saying, my point is when the team wins, Harris and Carter get all the credit. When the team lose, they start to blame the role players. Also, Dave D. always hated the RJ trade, he bash the former Bucks every chance he gets. RJ was Kidd's boy, once Kidd left RJ had to go too.

 

[nets1]

the Yi fan club won't accept rational complaints about "their" man. So now its the offenses fault. If you remember back in the olympics they complained it was the offense of the national team. Prior to that they complained it was the bucks offense, and Redd and Mo Williams who kept the ball from him. Poor Yi, here for less than 2 years and everybody discriminates against him.

But at least we know Yi inconsistency has nothing to do with Yi, its really everybody's fault. I think thats what they are saying....

 

[ghoti]

I'm just saying, my point is when the team wins, Harris and Carter get all the credit. When the team lose, they start to blame the role players. Also, Dave D. always hated the RJ trade, he bash the former Bucks every chance he gets. RJ was Kidd's boy, once Kidd left RJ had to go too.

If "they" means brain-dead internet posters and snarky media people, who cares?

There are good basketball people in the organization and knowledgeable fans who can intelligently discuss what's going on.

 

[YiOF]

He had a number of touches in that game, but he wasn't establishing position close enough to the basket so he had to keep giving the ball up. That was on him, not the offense.

Yes, Nets run plays for Lopez down at the low post, that's why he can consistently get 10-15 points a game. And if Lopez doesn't perform, it's his fault. What plays do the Nets run through Yi or Simmons? They are role players on the offense, they get open when their defender leave them to help out in the paint. If other team decides just stay on them, they are not going to get many oppotunities in set plays. how can they be consistent? Yi does get some touches 30 feet away from the basket on top of the key, what do you expect a 7 footer to do from there? Driving to the hoop like a guard and create for others? that's what Harris and VC do. If he takes a couple dribbles and take a semi contested shot, people say that's a dumb shot.

you can make an argument that Yi and simmons haven't been knocking down shots others created for them, that could be a problem, but I think both of them will improve as the season goes on. As far as consistency goes, until Nets run some play through them, they won't be consistent. Lets just hope they knock down their open shots and stop complaining why he didn't score 20 points every game. Their main purpose are really just stretch the floor for others.

 

[YiOF]

the Yi fan club won't accept rational complaints about "their" man. So now its the offenses fault. If you remember back in the olympics they complained it was the offense of the national team. Prior to that they complained it was the bucks offense, and Redd and Mo Williams who kept the ball from him. Poor Yi, here for less than 2 years and everybody discriminates against him.

But at least we know Yi inconsistency has nothing to do with Yi, its really everybody's fault. I think thats what they are saying....

find me a player in nba that averages 15 points a game when there is no plays set up for them.

 

[ghoti]

Yes, Nets run plays for Lopez down at the low post, that's why he can consistently get 10-15 points a game. And if Lopez doesn't perform, it's his fault. What plays do the Nets run through Yi or Simmons? They are role players on the offense, they get open when their defender leave them to help out in the paint. If other team decides just stay on them, they are not going to get many oppotunities in set plays. how can they be consistent? Yi does get some touches 30 feet away from the basket on top of the key, what do you expect a 7 footer to do from there? Driving to the hoop like a guard and create for others? that's what Harris and VC do. If he takes a couple dribbles and take a semi contested shot, people say that's a dumb shot.

you can make an argument that Yi and simmons haven't been knocking down shots others created for them, that could be a problem, but I think both of them will improve as the season goes on. As far as consistency goes, until Nets run some play through them, they won't be consistent. Lets just hope they knock down their open shots and stop complaining why he didn't score 20 points every game. Their main purpose are really just stretch the floor for others.

When Yi comes out to the elbow and hands off the ball to Carter, rubs off Carter's defender and gives VC a wide open shot, he is doing a terrific job and it's making him a better player.

Why do they have to run an offense that features Yi right now? That would put him in the extremely stressful position where if he doesn't perform well he will make the whole team worse.

Carter and Harris are the players that are equipped to handle that responsibility and they are doing a phenomenal job.

It surprises me that any New Jersey Nets fan would complain about that.