Virgin Galactic ShaceShip2 crash

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...I wonder what the guys who are up in the space station are thinking?
 
totus44 said:
Is that a quote from the pilot....didn't realize we had the black box already.
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...how'd you like the choice of terminology explaining the crash?..."During the test, the vehicle suffered a serious anomaly resulting in the loss of SpaceShipTwo,"


...an "anomaly"?...that's what they call a major f'up nowadays?
 
the "anomaly" is "something that happened that we didn't plan". If the "anomaly" occurred because an engineer messed up an equation, or a dude didn't tighten a bolt enough, that's a "major f'up".
 
totus44 said:
One dead, one injured.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/31/us/spaceshiptwo-incident/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014...n-flight-anomaly-553581797/?intcmp=latestnews
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Tom, you of all people know well of the many wonder birds Rutan designed and built. Some call him revolutionary. Yet I call him (as do my colleagues) a fool, with a mission well defined, but poorly configured, for each Air Vehicles requirements. Rutan in efforts to reduce weight, drag, et al. Over-Utilized paper honeycomb, and extremely thin exterior panels.

I wouldn't fly in the the Scaled Composites (Virgin Altantic) Space Vehicles for less than 1 billion $$$. It's a joke to me to offer pricy rides to famous rich people, who want the thrill of cheap space flight. I never cared for the ships design, as I see it as a paradigm shift in designs, yet not proven out enough to have a safe track record.

His Voyager was quit a bird, which was also questionable at best, with paper honeycomb wings.

1- Virgin Galactus Ship, I got to see inside and out, when Northrop bought out Scaled Composites Space Systems in Mojave. Virgin is still the main cash flow for the program. Yet, Northrop Engineers could not deviate from Rutan's design, a contractual flaw, inherent in most Rutan Vehicles. The 1st thing I said to my Colleagues, was you could not pay me billions to take a ride in this POS. A Space Vehicle, with very poor heat deflection/absorbtion. The majority of this planes interior fuselage, wings, et al, is believe it or not, paper honeycomb. Not titanium or Inconel honeycomb. the Shuttles, XB-70 Valkryie, and a few other birds, which used honeycomb to reduce weight, while improving the strength of the air vehicle., A poor poor design for a vehicle which has to come back thru a fireball re-entry.

2-A couple of years ago, a man was killed on the Rocket Test Firing Range, when that Rocket blew to holy hell. That was the 2nd incident involving a rocket test firing explosion killing a previous worker, on the same program.

Rutan's infamous other aircraft, were questionable in many areas of design, stress, or systems integrations. The very AC John Denver flew in, a Rutan EZ AC. Had a flawed design in its back up reserve fuel tanks. In order to turn the reserve on, the pilot has to put the AC into auto control, then un-belt themselves, to turn a very stiff switch; turning on the reserve. In many of these EZ AC, many pilots complained over the lack of simplicity in turning this very stiff dial. Not only should the AC have a auto reserve, and system to detect low fuel, requiring the reserve to be turned on manually only. this plane should of had a simple switch or toggle, to flip the reserve on. Keep in mind the reserve fuel switch is located behind the pilots head. Denver like many other pilots of Rutan's EZ experimental design, had alot of pilots remove the hard to turn switch, and put a pair of vise grips over the switches stem. Or placed vise grips on the switch itself.

Just a few of many design anomalies, and inherent risks in what was called a Wonder Boy Rutan.

IMO, he did some great experimental designs of AC, yet lacked the true common sense factor at many junctures during his design and test flights. Yet, again, so many marvel over Rutan's wonder birds, yet so few realize the common inherent flaws in most of his AC. Something a Aerospace company must always address, the issue of Flight Safety at any cost, versus stretching the boundaries of experimental AC. A major AC Contractor would never build the many birds of Rutan's I have seen, without first addressing the major concerns, even minor ones, for Safety of Flight 1st and foremost.
 
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BrianFromWA said:
the "anomaly" is "something that happened that we didn't plan". If the "anomaly" occurred because an engineer messed up an equation, or a dude didn't tighten a bolt enough, that's a "major f'up".
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Keep in mind "Pilot Error" is also noted as a anomaly. Remember Eastern Airlines L-1011 Flight 401.

The L-1011's had so many advanced safety features, that most modern day planes still do not.

it was in its time, cleared by the FAA to land in Zero Visibilty during a blizzard onto a ice packed runway. Each delivery or the Tri-Star, was contractually bound to fly out of Palmdale, CA. where they were built, by a hands off pilot./co-pilot, and had to land hands free or off. No alterations needed to be made by pilots delivering one single bird. NTM=its Rolls Royce Engines, deemed it the Whisperliner, and was the only AC, a Jumbo Jet at that, which was given permission to land at LAX during nightime hours. All other AC had to come in off the Pacific for noise abatement.

I could do this all day long, with the advanced engineering of the L-1011s, which should all be implemented in todays new AC, but unfortunately are not.

Compare the DC=10 to the Tri-Star. Engine #2 of the DC's being mounted atop the fuselage and tied into the vertical stabilizer, would never allow for engine #2 to ever throttle up over 20% of its thrust capacity.
The more advanced L-1011 with its #2 engine was usually throttled up at 100% thrust. In fact the L-1011 could fly its entire mission by using the #2 Engine if necessary.

just a few of many engineering wonders the L=1011 had. There were many more advancements from the L-1011s.
 
BrianFromWA said:
the "anomaly" is "something that happened that we didn't plan". If the "anomaly" occurred because an engineer messed up an equation, or a dude didn't tighten a bolt enough, that's a "major f'up".
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...lol, I'm quite familiar with the term "anomaly"...and sorry, but no, a space craft coming apart in mid air is "a major f'up".
 
I never used composite honeycomb anywhere the would suffer high stresses. It was great for bulkheads....never trusted it for fins. That was a surefire shred on mach transition.

Also not to hot on the nylon fuel grain. HTPB was proven.
 
totus44 said:
Somebody screwed the pooch
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...definitely.

...I mean this thing was supposed to carry movie stars, celebrities, etc., or anyone who had "the correct change" to pay for a ticket...between this and the resupply rocket that blew up Wednesday, it's been a rough week for the industry.

...this will set them back for years.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...definitely.

...I mean this thing was supposed to carry movie stars, celebrities, etc., or anyone who had "the correct change" to pay for a ticket...between this and the resupply rocket that blew up Wednesday, it's been a rough week for the industry.

...this will set them back for years.
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Yes, hopefully this will set back, Scaled Composites a few years. to go in and re-analyze the program in every aspect.

Funny tho' was after the Challenger Incident when manned space flight was grounded for 3 years thereafter. Engineering went to great lengths (so it seemed), to re-analyze all aspects of the Orbiter Program. However, did they really pour over every aspect, and eliminate all dangers, or high risk flights, and conditions? No not really, if NASA had done as much, we never would of had the Columbia break up, from The ET Foam blowing thru the RCC Leading edge.

NTM- Columbia's tragedy could of easily been diverted, yet the mission Columbia last flew had only enough fuel on board to go 200 miles into space. No way to get to the ISS at 400 miles, and back. Now an add on to the ISS had all the necessary tools, and some parts, as well as stock to make parts out of, such as patches.

Basically the loss of Challenger should of never occurred, and neither should of Columbia's destruction.

this has been the mental picture I have had since OV-102 Columbia disintegrate during break up. The Command Module is a separate pressurized cabin, set within a structural shell with all Gold Insulation Blankets. Upon break up, those Astronauts, were instantaneously projected into the burn down point, re-entering, when all the sudden imagine being one of those Astronauts, who find themselves imploding from being throw from a pressurized cabin, into a 5000 degree burn down, and ejected at 17,000 mph. That alone, the speed, in which the Astronauts were thrown into, would instantly implode their bodies, while the immense heat would of vaporized them. What a way to go, implode then incinerate.
 
Right...getting way too sloppy in our approach to space. Commercialization hasn't been very impressive to date. Its one of the few endeavors that govt can be successful at, removing any pressures related to profit/success (ideally speaking of course). If anything, its should be the civilian arm of the Defense Dept.

I'm more than happy to cut a ton of social program spending to fund defense and space exploration. Student loans for science and engineering only, you want to study business/law/humanities....you pay for it. I could go on and on.
 
totus44 said:
I'm more than happy to cut a ton of social program spending to fund defense and space exploration. Student loans for science and engineering only, you want to study business/law/humanities....you pay for it. I could go on and on.
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I've been screaming about this for years. I love the thought of government helping out people who can't pay for school, but if my tax dollars are paying for it, you don't get to study art history or women's studies or philosophy or religion. You can get a science/engineering degree, go to welding school, etc.--things that we as a country are lacking.

(Note: I don't mean GI Bill with this--those guys have earned the right to do whatever they want with their earned benefit)
 
BrianFromWA said:
I've been screaming about this for years. I love the thought of government helping out people who can't pay for school, but if my tax dollars are paying for it, you don't get to study art history or women's studies or philosophy or religion. You can get a science/engineering degree, go to welding school, etc.--things that we as a country are lacking.

(Note: I don't mean GI Bill with this--those guys have earned the right to do whatever they want with their earned benefit)
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MIL and Vets to the front of the line, always....absolutely.
 
^^^yeah, it's laughable but also a crying shame how the government touts the military people as "heroes" while they're serving their country and putting their lives on the line...but when they come home and when they need the government's help the most, the government's memory gets a little vague.
 
totus44 said:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/03/us/spaceshiptwo-incident/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Rob....feathering mechanism, sounds like Rutan archaic design did strike again. Question I have, did any of these 400 engineers have the balls to call out Rutan?
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[video]http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wr...-spacecraft-crashed/story?id=26652725[/video]

Thanks Tom, I've been watching this closely. I thought from the start the "anomaly" was either rocket failure, (since they've blown up more than one during ground tests)....then I thought as key, would probably be Pilot Error....
indeed it was.....thanks for the info, and for keeping up with this....a passion we both share....!!

Moments before Virgin Galactic's Space Ship Two broke up over the Mojave Desert, investigators said the co-pilot prematurely deployed the spacecraft's descent system. While a cause of the crash has not yet been determined, National Transportation Safety Board Acting Chairman Christopher Hart said in a briefing on Sunday night that investigators found the feathering system that slows the spacecraft's descent was deployed before it reached the appropriate speed. Hart said the two-step system was unlocked by the co-pilot and that the second step to deploy it happened without receiving a command from the pilot.
 
Anyone still want a ride on that Rutan Superior Designed state of the art Space Plane?

Rutan is hiding somewhere in a bunker in the middle of the Mojave, until all this blows over....!!!
 
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