Vonleh - is he becoming a solid player?

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Nope, you know who is worse? Domantas Sabonis. I get that he's a rookie, but he's only 9 months younger than Vonleh, and his stats, across the board, are worse than Vonleh's, both present and rookie Vonleh.

It seems a number of people here are enamored with Sabonis, but the only reasons I can think of are: his last name, and where he went to college. His PER is 6.8, his TRB% of 9.6% is Bargnani bad and his FG% of .410 is terrible for a PF, even an alleged stretch 4. After trading Ibaka, he was handed the starting spot by default, but he just hasn't produced.

IMHO, Vonleh is better now and has more upside. Vonleh shoots better from both 2-point range and 3-point range and is twice the rebounder Sabonis is.

BNM
It takes big guys longer to develop. Everyone said this to me when I was calling Leonar_ a bust early. You were one of them, actually. Could the same not be said about Sabonis? Age is similar, but years of NBA coaching and NBA experience are both heavily in Vonleh's favor.
 
It takes big guys longer to develop. Everyone said this to me when I was calling Leonar_ a bust early. You were one of them, actually. Could the same not be said about Sabonis? Age is similar, but years of NBA coaching and NBA experience are both heavily in Vonleh's favor.

Bigs do take longer (in general, there are always exceptions), but it's not about calendar time, it's about paying time. The only way to get a feel for the game is to actually play the game. The difference in actually playing time isn't that great between Sabonis and Vonleh.

Vonleh played a pretty meaningless 259 minutes of garbage time his rookie year. Sabonis as at 1415 minutes, almost all of it as a starter, and counting. He's getting way more minutes and the minutes he's getting are more meaningful (not the glorified street ball known as garbage time). By the end of his next game, Sabonis will have played more minutes is his rookie season than Vonleh played in his first two.

As far as this season goes, Sabonis is at 1415 minutes played and Vonleh is at 845 minutes.

The other thing that helps young players develop is a consistent role. Sabonis has had that, starting 64 games. As mentioned, Vonleh barely played his rookie year. Other than an a few occasional minutes of garbage time, he had no role. Last year, he went from barely playing to starting back to barely playing. That can mess with a young players confidence, which seems to be one of the things holding Vonleh back.

Same this year for Vonleh. He went from barely playing to starting. His current stretch is three games is the first time all season where he has played => 20 minutes in two straight games. He seems to finally have a consistent role and is showing significant improvement.

But, even beyond that, Vonleh is bigger, stronger, more athletic and appears to be more skilled. His wide body, big hands and long arms make him a much better rebounder than Sabonis (that's a skill I find very valuable in a power forward). Those same physical attributes also make Vonleh a better defender.

Sabonis was a good shooter (although an average 3-point shooter, at best) in college, but that hasn't translated into the NBA. That may come over time, but right now, Vonleh is a better shooter at the NBA level.

In any case, my post was in response to the assertion that Vonleh may be the worst starting PF in the NBA. He's not. He's clearly better than Domantas Sabonis TODAY. Vonleh is also better than Luke Babbit, who has started 46 games at PF for the Heat this year. In his 7th season with almost 5000 minutes played, we can't use the youth/inexperience card to explain why Babbit is worse than Vonleh. He just is.

BNM
 
Got into a pretty big argument about his potential. Don't I feel like a complete horses ass.
 
2 questions:
who are the PF's in the NCAA/International that are currently better than Vonleh?
My guess is none.

Who are the PF's who will be better than Vonleh.
Undoubtably there are at least a few. But they are a couple years off.
I still think TJ Leaf is one who is worth a 2 year investment and who is currently in our projected draft position
 
I can't remember his contract situation. Aren't we in kind of a tough situation that if he improves next year we would have a tough time affording to pay him?
 
2 questions:
who are the PF's in the NCAA/International that are currently better than Vonleh?
My guess is none.

Who are the PF's who will be better than Vonleh.
Undoubtably there are at least a few. But they are a couple years off.
I still think TJ Leaf is one who is worth a 2 year investment and who is currently in our projected draft position

There are major reasons I would prefer a developmental rookie league to a straight pro draft. In baseball, players don't get acrue sevice time till they make the bigs, but when they do they contribute immediately. In the NBA, that two to three years time spend on the bench is a killer. And while they only become restricted free agents they still take up a large part of your cap. It would be awesome if there was a buffer period of cheap controllable talent in the NBA that allowed you to compete and then trade those players for more picks. But with the lack of overall talent to go around the league and current labor rules, that's difficult.
 
I can't remember his contract situation. Aren't we in kind of a tough situation that if he improves next year we would have a tough time affording to pay him?

Potentially--but you could move Meyers and Turner for your first if you think Vonleh is that important.
 
I can't remember his contract situation. Aren't we in kind of a tough situation that if he improves next year we would have a tough time affording to pay him?

I believe he's a RFA after next season.
 
In short, no skill.

In all fairness, he did have a couple decent years in IND and SAS, but in POR I'll always remember him for the last game he played here. It was the final game of the regular season against GSW. Pendy scored 23 points in a loss against a depleted Warriors squad that saw Don Nelson play four of his starters (Curry, Ellis, Anthony Tolliver and Reggie Williams) the entire 48 minutes of the game. It was weird, because it was a completely meaningless game, but Nellie was coaching like it was Game 7 of the NBA Finals.

BNM

This game I believe:
 
Hmm...last year, Vonleh started the majority of the year, then Aminu took over the starting spot and basically kept it through the offseason and into this year.

Now, Aminu relinquished the starting spot due to injury, and Vonleh has it back and looks like he may be able to hold onto it. I wonder if a full offseason, training camp, and pre-season of him being slotted as the starter--with Nurkic as his unquestioned frontcourt-mate--will have an impact on his development in that role.

To add on to this, I also think Aminu is better off the bench.
 
My biggest issue with Noah right now is his defensive awareness is atrocious. He does decent on the guy he's guarding - but it's like he's playing zone... he frequently switches onto a guard when there's absolutely no need to.

It's his pick and roll D. He kinda has TT (LMA) syndrome. He doesn't play it well and ends up on the guard instead of getting back to his man.
 
Jermaine O'Neal took a few years to turn practice athleticism into game fierceness.

(I feel like this is a "Coming to America" barbershop scene. "Every time I bring up sucky young Blazers' PFs, someone brings up Jermaine O'Neal. Jermaine O'Neal! Jermaine O'Neal!"

"He DID turn into an All-star"

"F*** you, f*** you, f*** you. who's next?")

Haha! My favorite movie of all time!
 
I've got more hope for Vonleh now than I did last year. If he could just consistantly stick that mid range jumper and get better at finishing....
 
Which means we could be showcasing him before the draft to improve value and either move up or package him for a need. No way we will be able to afford Nurk and Vonleh in all likelihood.

Over a season from now is a LONG way off.

IF your statemjent is true, wouldnt that be just a HUGE concern?

We are discussing if Vonleh is going to be good enough, but if he is, we cant afford him. so what makes us think we can afford someone better than him?

I actually still have faith in NO that he will make all the money work out and this team will continue to improve, both in roster and experience.

You wanna know what would make everything soooo much easier?

If Dame showed HOW much he loved it here and got with Crabbe Turner and CJ, and allowed the Blazers to rework their contracts a bit, so we could afford the missing paces to the puzzle.



Come to think of it, I really think Crabbe was the cause to the financial situation. If he wouldn't have signed that contract with Brooklyn(or was it the 6ers") and forced our hand, we probably would have then also got Turner for less. Knock off ten mil of of each of their contracts and we would be sitting just fine.
 
Which means we could be showcasing him before the draft to improve value and either move up or package him for a need. No way we will be able to afford Nurk and Vonleh in all likelihood.

Why not? You think Allen cares about luxury tax if he's paying for a winner? I think the smart thing to do would be to lock one, or both of them up this summer.

Anyways, let's talk about Vonlehs perimeter defense instead. He was shutting that shit down today. Every time Vonleh switched onto a guard, I had no worries, I had confidence he'd hold his own. And he did.
 
If you could get him for a good discount (and I don't see why we wouldn't) then I would absolutely lock Vonleh up this summer. Same goes for Nurkic (although he would be smart to wait as we won't offer max first time around).
 
He is still not the brightest kid around. There is a play where Turner dribbles along the baseline, all the way from one side to the other. Vonleh just needs to take one step to his left to present himself right in front of the basket as Turner goes through, but he doesn't even try. Then when Turner does get all the way across and circles back and fires a pass to Vonleh, he seems surprised that it's coming. He does catch it and dunk it but Turner has a little talk with him after the play.
 
11/8 in 27 mpg over his past 3. Not a lot of players have done better per minute over a season while shooting over 60% from the field (Vonleh's 72.2% in that span).

Not expecting this level of output on a regular basis, but imagine if he can.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top