Vonleh must play

[Natebishop3]

Hindsight is always 20/20 but Jesus Christ... We really wanted to rely on 35+ year old Sabonis and 31+ year old Dale Davis to bring us to the promise land? Man, bad move by the FO...

You don't trade someone because they "want out." Just like we didn't let Crabbe go because he wants to start. It was a bad trade. We also figured Kemp would be better with JO's minutes.

Jermaine hadn't shown us anything in four+ years.

Dale Davis was fresh off an All-Star season with Indy.

Jermaine seemed like a bigger project and less likely to help us win immediately, and our window was rapidly closing. We didn't realize that Jermaine would explode when given minutes. I don't see anyone on our bench that's going to explode with minutes. We have started Crabbe. We have started Vonleh. If they were going to explode with minutes, I think they would have done it already, but Vonleh worries me. I see a lot of potential in him. Maybe not a Jermaine, but I think he could be a very good starter.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Exactly. It was a bad trade. Depth doesn't mean you have to make bad trades. I'm for keeping all our players. Some of you want consolidation trades that could possibly lead to losing TWO Jermaine O'Neals. Hold onto our depth. We've only won two playoff series since we traded JO.

It depends on who the trade is for always, I mean... I ain't trading any of our guys for a Dale Davis level guy. If we have a trade it's gotta be for a legit third option type player. For example if Chris Bosh didn't have his health issues... I'd hope we'd be pursuing him in a trade.

 

[Natebishop3]

We didn't LOSE JO. We TRADED him. There's no rule saying we must trade our young talent because we have a lot of it. The cream will rise to the top and we'll be great because of it. Or none of them will be very good and it'll suck.

Quit being so pedantic. We LOST Jermaine because we couldn't find him minutes and he wanted out. Jermaine requested a trade and Bob honored it. He didn't need a cancer on the bench with so many good players trying to balance minutes.

 

[KingSpeed]

JO played 12 mpg in our last season with us. He even played 6 minutes in the crucial Game 7.

 

[KingSpeed]

He wanted out. He was tired of being stuck on the bench. Dunleavy liked playing the vets. Jermaine would make stupid mistakes when we played him and we were a contender at that time, but he was SO young. We finally gave in and traded him for Dale Davis because Davis seemed like a good player for a championship contender. We thought we'd get more out of Davis in the immediate future. Jermaine went on to be a superstar.

Jermaine did NOT become a superstar, lol. He was an All Star a few years, yes, but choked in 2004 playoffs and that was that.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Jermaine did NOT become a superstar, lol. He was an All Star a few years, yes, but choked in 2004 playoffs and that was that.

Jermaine has knocked out more fans than he has championship rings

 

[Natebishop3]

Jermaine did NOT become a superstar, lol. He was an All Star a few years, yes, but choked in 2004 playoffs and that was that.

He was an All-Star for six straight years.

 

[KingSpeed]

Quit being so pedantic. We LOST Jermaine because we couldn't find him minutes and he wanted out. Jermaine requested a trade and Bob honored it. He didn't need a cancer on the bench with so many good players trying to balance minutes.

He got 12 mpg that year. Do you know for a fact that JO requested a trade and that is why we traded him? Even if he did, Bob could've kept him.

 

[KingSpeed]

He was an All-Star for six straight years.

Not a superstar.

 

[KingSpeed]

The bottom line is depth is a good thing and depth doesn't lead to losing players. Bad trades do. Let's hold onto these guys and play the best ones. Plus, injuries happen.

 

[Natebishop3]

He got 12 mpg that year. Do you know for a fact that JO requested a trade and that is why we traded him? Even if he did, Bob could've kept him.

The article doesn't exist anymore, but there's a forum post from that time with quoted text.

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=5154

Jermaine wants to jump
Report: Blazers' O'Neal asks for trade

Jun 14, 2000 1:30 a.m. ET

Associated Press

PORTLAND, Ore. — Jermaine O'Neal, saying he needs more playing time, has asked to be traded from the Portland Trail Blazers.
"I definitely want to be traded," O'Neal told The Oregonian Tuesday. He said his agent Arn Tellem has made the request to Blazers president Bob Whitsitt.

Whitsitt could not be reached for comment. "As far as I'm concerned, I would not want to see Jermaine traded," coach Mike Dunleavy said. "There is no reason for it, from our standpoint. His future is very bright."

O'Neal, 21, is heading into his fifth NBA season. When the 6-foot-11 forward re-signed with the Blazers last summer, he expected to see an increase in playing time.

O'Neal averaged 3.9 points and 3.3 rebounds in 12.3 minutes last season.

"It's time for me to play, and it's not going to happen in Portland," O'Neal told the newspaper. "I need 30-35 minutes a night to develop into the type of player I can be. Just like I said when I came into the league, and when I was the best player in summer league two years ago, I'm going to be one of the best power forwards in the NBA. And that's going to happen very, very quickly once I get somewhere I can play."

O'Neal appeared in eight of the Blazers' 16 playoff games and played 35 minutes. O'Neal is entering the second year of a four-year, $24 million contract he signed Aug. 2.

The newspaper also reported that the Chicago Bulls and Boston Celtics are among the teams that reportedly have talked to the Blazers about O'Neal. Chicago has the fourth pick in the draft.

"A deal could be agreed to before the draft and go through later in the summer," O'Neal said.

 

[Natebishop3]

Not a superstar.

In. Your. Opinion.

 

[KingSpeed]

See? Dunleavy did not want to trade JO and thought it was a bad idea. Bob made a bad trade. We didn't let Crabbe go just because he wanted to start.

And do you really think JO was a superstar? Honestly? What is your definition?

 

[Mediocre Man]

JO to Indiana wasn't really a consolidation trade though, was it? It was an experience trade. A young forward that wasn't playing for an All star on championship team that played well against our biggest challenge. I think anyway?

 

[Natebishop3]

Bob made a bad trade.

Gee ya think!?! Wow...... I've never heard THAT opinion before. Your grasp of trades that happened 16 years ago is AMAZING Eric. Simply AMAZING.

 

[Natebishop3]

And do you really think JO was a superstar? Honestly? What is your definition?

Six straight All-Star games.

Voted as a starter in 2 of them.

Go look at his stats between 01-02 and 06-07.

That's a superstar.

 

[BlazerWookee]

No it didn't. We made a bad trade (which is what you've been calling for i.e. "consolidation trade") That was what cost us. There were minutes for JO but we decided to give them to Dale Davis.

Dale Davis was the best player in the league at slowing down Shaq, and if I recall correctly, it wasn't even close. That trade was the absolutely right trade to make, because at the time it was about getting over the Shaq hurdle the next season to win it all.

 

[lawai'a]

it was a three man rotation for the most part. Sabonis starting at center, Wallace at pf and grant playing minutes backing up both of them as i remember it. grant disliked guarding centers. davis had been effective defending shaq probably as well as any one because he was so strong. so oneal was behind wallace and grant in the rotation and at 35 sabonis was breaking down. we traded a young powerforward,#3 in our depth chart, for a starting center who could match up with our chief obstacle to the finals in LA and Oneil

 

[Pinwheel1]

Petrie also made a bad trade when he let Drazen go because he wanted more playing time. Again trading youth for experience. It's not ideal having a player who is unhappy on the bench, especially Euro's who have other options, but either you get real value for them......or don't trade them!

 

[Schilly]

At the time trading Jermaine for Dale Davis would be a lot like trading Meyers Leonard for Taj Gibson. I know Gibson isn't an all star but is a similar player.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Six straight All-Star games.

Voted as a starter in 2 of them.

Go look at his stats between 01-02 and 06-07.

That's a superstar.

Is Aldridge a superstar?

 

[blue9]

Hindsight is always 20/20 but Jesus Christ... We really wanted to rely on 35+ year old Sabonis and 31+ year old Dale Davis to bring us to the promise land? Man, bad move by the FO...

No, it really wasn't. Davis had just defended Shaq, in the Finals, better than anyone had defended him all season. Shaq was our biggest obstacle to a championship. Jerm wasn't doing shit for us. It was a great trade that just didn't work out.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Next @Natebishop3 and @KingAlbertoJrSpeed will reenact the Less Filling, Tastes Great argument.

 

[riverman]

You really can't have enough bigs on cheap contracts these days..Vonleh will play. He added a lot of upper body strength and looks to me like he's ready to take the next step in his progress...this is a young, young 3rd year player

 

[blue9]

Man, I wonder what could have been if we either benched or traded Sabonis and rolled with O'Neal. Rasheed probably doesn't get moved.

First - the idea of trading Sabonis is blasphemous. You should probably be banned for the summer for such a statement. But, here's what would have happened if we did that:

Shaq would have literally (not figuratively) eaten Jerm alive while tearing down the backboard on a dunk and farting out Jerm's spirit; after which he'd have wafted Jerm Fart in the face of Joey Crawford who would then assess Sheed a double-technical.

 

[Natebishop3]

Is Aldridge a superstar?

The argument could be made that he was the best power forward in the game for a few years there, so I'd say yes.

But, he has never been voted as a starter. Jermaine was voted in two times in a row, 2003 and 2004.

I guess it depends on what your definition of a superstar is. If you're one of the top 10 players voted in by the fans, you're most likely a superstar, or you were a superstar at one point (IE Kobe this season.) Aldridge has been to five straight, so pretty comparable.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Next @Natebishop3 and @KingAlbertoJrSpeed will reenact the Less Filling, Tastes Great argument.

Greatest commercial series ever?

There have been some good ones, but those were so full of stars

 

[PtldPlatypus]

The argument could be made that he was the best power forward in the game for a few years there, so I'd say yes.

But, he has never been voted as a starter. Jermaine was voted in two times in a row, 2003 and 2004.

I guess it depends on what your definition of a superstar is. If you're one of the top 10 players voted in by the fans, you're most likely a superstar, or you were a superstar at one point (IE Kobe this season.) Aldridge has been to five straight, so pretty comparable.

It's very comparable; that's why I asked the question. Jermaine was an all-star starter...in the east...whereas Aldridge has made 4 all-NBA teams to Jermaine's 3, and averaged 21.5/9.2 to Jermaine's 20.4/9.9.

But IMO, being a superstar isn't about stats or starts; it's about national perception. And I would hesitate to say that either has ever really been nationally perceived as a player that can be the anchor of a contender. To me, both fall short of "superstar" status. Of course, it's such a subjective term that we could argue about it all day and never agree.

 

[Natebishop3]

It's very comparable; that's why I asked the question. Jermaine was an all-star starter...in the east...whereas Aldridge has made 4 all-NBA teams to Jermaine's 3, and averaged 21.5/9.2 to Jermaine's 20.4/9.9.

But IMO, being a superstar isn't about stats or starts; it's about national perception. And I would hesitate to say that either has ever really been nationally perceived as a player that can be the anchor of a contender. To me, both fall short of "superstar" status. Of course, it's such a subjective term that we could argue about it all day and never agree.

It's all about perception, but the fans don't typically vote in someone that isn't a franchise player, or at least was a franchise player at one point. But then again, your question about LMA was a loaded question, so I was sidestepping that land mine

 

[PtldPlatypus]

It's all about perception, but the fans don't typically vote in someone that isn't a franchise player, or at least was a franchise player at one point. But then again, your question about LMA was a loaded question, so I was sidestepping that land mine

Still, did you look at how weak the East roster was those years?

• 2003--Jermaine had fewer than 1M votes, fewest of any starter. Reserve all-star forwards: Antoine Walker and Jamal Mashburn. Grant Hill almost beat Jermaine, and he was injured.
• 2004--Carter and Oneal were the only real options. Reserve all-star forwards: Kenyon Martin (16 & 9) and Ron Artest (18/5/4)--the only all-star appearances for either. Hell, 38-year-old Pippen played just 23 games that year, started only 6, and averaged 12/6/4 on 38% shooting, and came in 5th in the east voting among forwards. It was THAT bad.

Seriously--it took historically bad all-star rosters for Jermaine to start the all-star game. Had he been in the West, he wouldn't have had a prayer.