Vonleh must play (1 Viewer)

[blue9]

Still, did you look at how weak the East roster was those years?

• 2003--Jermaine had fewer than 1M votes, fewest of any starter. Reserve all-star forwards: Antoine Walker and Jamal Mashburn. Grant Hill almost beat Jermaine, and he was injured.
• 2004--Carter and Oneal were the only real options. Reserve all-star forwards: Kenyon Martin (16 & 9) and Ron Artest (18/5/4)--the only all-star appearances for either. Hell, 38-year-old Pippen played just 23 games that year, started only 6, and averaged 12/6/4 on 38% shooting, and came in 5th in the east voting among forwards. It was THAT bad.

Seriously--it took historically bad all-star rosters for Jermaine to start the all-star game. Had he been in the West, he wouldn't have had a prayer.

This is why I've never been upset about trading Jerm. He "dominated" an awful Eastern conference. He never would have been an All-Star in the West.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

This is why I've never been upset about trading Jerm. He "dominated" an awful Eastern conference. He never would have been an All-Star in the West.

He was 2nd or 3rd team all NBA 3 times, so he probably would have been an all-star, but would have been a reserve behind Duncan/KG/Dirk. As was metioned earlier, a Rasheed/Jermaine frontline, perhaps even Rasheed/Zach/Jermaine, would have been pretty darn formidable.

 

[MarAzul]

Dale Davis was the best player in the league at slowing down Shaq, and if I recall correctly, it wasn't even close. That trade was the absolutely right trade to make, because at the time it was about getting over the Shaq hurdle the next season to win it all.

Gather, gather, jump!

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Can we label what star vs a superstar is?

Dame is a star, multiple all star games, a 2nd and 3rd team all-NBA listing.

A superstar is a guy who has won the MVP and/or headlined 1st team all-NBA multiple years imo.

 

[BonesJones]

Can we label what star vs a superstar is?

Dame is a star, multiple all star games, a 2nd and 3rd team all-NBA listing.

A superstar is a guy who has won the MVP and/or headlined 1st team all-NBA multiple years imo.

A superstar is a top-6 franchise player.

Dame is a lot closer to being a superstar than Draymond because he's a franchise player.

 

[blue9]

Can we label what star vs a superstar is?

Dame is a star, multiple all star games, a 2nd and 3rd team all-NBA listing.

A superstar is a guy who has won the MVP and/or headlined 1st team all-NBA multiple years imo.

IMO there are only ever 3-5 guys deserving of the label "superstar" in any given season. However, once a superstar always a superstar, despite the production. Kobe and Duncan were both superstars throughout their careers, though neither has performed like one for many years. The only players this past season who were superstars AND played like were superstars were Curry and LBJ, and perhaps Durant and Westbrook.

 

[BonesJones]

Superstars: Lebron, Durant, Curry, Westbrook, George, _________?,

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

A superstar is a top-6 franchise player.

Dame is a lot closer to being a superstar than Draymond because he's a franchise player.

I agree, I think Dame is on the cusp of superstardom. With the way the league is currently constructed, I think it's gonna be between him LeBron, and Westbrook for MVP.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Superstars: Lebron, Durant, Curry, Westbrook, George, _________?,

George? I'm not sure, maybe.

Boogie's numbers are superstar level, but his team doesn't win. Kawhi's team, efficiency, and defense are superstar level, but the raw counting stats seem to fall a bit short.

 

[BonesJones]

I agree, I think Dame is on the cusp of superstardom. With the way the league is currently constructed, I think it's gonna be between him LeBron, and Westbrook for MVP.

If Dame simply raises his efficiency by 3% (46% FGs, 40% 3pt), he should score about 27ppg to go along with 7 assists. If the team wins 56+ then he has a real chance at MVP.

 

[BonesJones]

George? I'm not sure, maybe.

Boogie's numbers are superstar level, but his team doesn't win. Kawhi's team, efficiency, and defense are superstar level, but the raw counting stats seem to fall a bit short.

Ehh maybe not George but who else? Not Boogie or Davis because they don't lead their team anywhere.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

George? I'm not sure, maybe.

Boogie's numbers are superstar level, but his team doesn't win. Kawhi's team, efficiency, and defense are superstar level, but the raw counting stats seem to fall a bit short.

Kawhi is just not a superstar, he is a fantastic defender and one of the easiest guys to root for in the NBA but that's his ultimate problem. Fans overrate him because he's so loveable. He's honestly like this generations Ron Artest but switch crazy with humble.

 

[Natebishop3]

Superstar is completely subjective.

Do you go off of stats?

All-Star teams?

All-NBA teams?

Endorsements?

Popularity?

There isn't a metric to measure the jump from "star" to "superstar." You can define it however you want, but there's going to be someone who disagrees with you.

 

[blue9]

I'd also add that superstardom requires national media attention and endorsements - basically, you have to be a household name. Paul George is not a household name. Nor is Boogie or Leonard. Dame has a higher likelihood of becoming a superstar because of his marketability.

 

[Natebishop3]

Okay... now that we have derailed the thread....... Vonleh needs minutes.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

If Dame simply raises his efficiency by 3% (46% FGs, 40% 3pt), he should score about 27ppg to go along with 7 assists. If the team wins 56+ then he has a real chance at MVP.

He just needs to position himself between 2010-11 Rose and 2014-15 Curry statistically and he will win the MVP.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Okay... now that we have derailed the thread....... Vonleh needs minutes.

But is he a superstar?

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

But is he a superstar?

In the city of Haverhill, Massachusetts he is!

 

[Natebishop3]

But is he a superstar?

If we trade him to Indiana for dale Davis, he will be.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I would not be surprised if, by the end of the season, Vonleh is our second best big and proving it with numbers.

I would be fucking amazed, unless we've been decimated by injuries.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Kawhi is just not a superstar, he is a fantastic defender and one of the easiest guys to root for in the NBA but that's his ultimate problem. Fans overrate him because he's so loveable. He's honestly like this generations Ron Artest but switch crazy with humble.

Overrated? How exactly is Kawhi overrated? He was the #1 player on the 2nd best team in the league, the DPOY, with a PER above 26, and the 4th best TS% of all 30+ mpg players. Honestly, I think he's severely underrated when it comes to his offensive contributions, specifically because he's so good defensively.

 

[Mediocre Man]

If we trade him to Indiana for dale Davis, he will be.

Why not just come full circle and trade him for Jermaine O'Neal?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Man, I wonder what could have been if we either benched or traded Sabonis and rolled with O'Neal. Rasheed probably doesn't get moved.

You don't bench your best player.

No, what we should have done is exactly nothing. That is, let Brian walk and don't trade Jermaine. Then Jermaine gets Brian's minutes. Also, we should have ditched Dunleavy and got a coach who was prepared to give Jermaine a shot (like Isiah Thomas did in Indy).

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Overrated? How exactly is Kawhi overrated? He was the #1 player on the 2nd best team in the league, the DPOY, with a PER above 26, and the 4th best TS% of all 30+ mpg players. Honestly, I think he's severely underrated when it comes to his offensive contributions, specifically because he's so good defensively.

His trouble is he's the SF Tim Duncan. Doesn't do anything remotely flashy. Fans want flash.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Jermaine did NOT become a superstar, lol. He was an All Star a few years, yes, but choked in 2004 playoffs and that was that.

I've got to agree with Eric here. I always thought Jermaine was overrated in Indy. I bet he wouldn't look that great with today's advanced stats.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Overrated? How exactly is Kawhi overrated? He was the #1 player on the 2nd best team in the league, the DPOY, with a PER above 26, and the 4th best TS% of all 30+ mpg players. Honestly, I think he's severely underrated when it comes to his offensive contributions, specifically because he's so good defensively.

I mean overrated in terms of fan love, he's a fantastic player but he is NOT a superstar. Its my opinion but I think a superstar is a guy who everyone looks to in the "moment" too, Kawhi just doesn't seem to be that type of player. He is closer to Al Horford than LeBron James. Still, a fantastic player. Definitely top 15 in the NBA.

 

[Natebishop3]

I've got to agree with Eric here. I always thought Jermaine was overrated in Indy. I bet he wouldn't look that great with today's advanced stats.

He was a 20 and 10 guy, and back then 20 and 10 meant something.

 

[BBert]

Since I was like 5 and didn't pay attention, why did we let him go? The depth wasn't THAT great...

Rasheed / Grant
Sabonis (35 years old!!) / O'Neal

Wanted someone to (try to) guard Shaq. But the refs would have none of it.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

You don't bench your best player.

No, what we should have done is exactly nothing. That is, let Brian walk and don't trade Jermaine. Then Jermaine gets Brian's minutes. Also, we should have ditched Dunleavy and got a coach who was prepared to give Jermaine a shot (like Isiah Thomas did in Indy).

I find it hard to believe that our best player was a 35 year old man who played 26mpg and averaged 12/8 with 1 block a game when the roster also had Rasheed and Pippen on it, but I never got to experience Sabonis truly so my opinion or thoughts on a situation that happened 16 years ago is meaningless.

 

[Boob-No-More]

No, what cost us Jermaine was a gamble that Dale Davis would push us over the top, plus a tragic inability to realize that Shawn Kemp was a fat alcoholic.

Super like.

After the 4th quarter melt down in Game 7 of the WCF, Whitsitt panicked. He'd built a championship team, with great depth and a good balance of proven veterans and hungry young players. That team was well stocked and still had room to improve.

But, one ice cold shooting 4th quarter caused him make some desperation moves that came back to bite him in the ass. Trading Brian Grant, the heart and soul of that team for a 350 lb., coked up Shawn Kemp was the worst. Kemp was nowhere near the player Whitsitt had drafted in SEA and his failure to realize that destroyed any chance that team had of winning anything.

Throw in trading Jermaine for DD, Rod Strickland, the sequel and special treatment for Detlef Schrempf destroyed team chemistry and any hope of ever advancing past the first round again. What a waste of talent. Whitsitt fell in love with the rush of making trades and signing guys we didn't need that fractured an already fragile locker room. Each move he made, made the team worse, not better.

Whitsitt was right about one thing he wasn't a chemistry major. Things were actually going well up until the all star break,. In spite of Pippen being injured, the team was cruising long. Stacy Augmon was playing the best ball of his career in place of Pippen, and while Kemp was a disappointment, he was not yet a distraction.

After the all star break the wheels fell off. There were already squabbles about playing time (Damon vs. Greg Anthony and Bonzie vs. Steve Smith), but things had not yet come to a head.

First, Pippen came back from his injury. Not that big a deal, by itself. It meant Augmon would have to move back to the bench, but at least he'd still get significant minutes, that he'd rightfully earned in Pippen's absence. But then, Whitsitt had the brilliant idea to lure Detlef Schrempf out of retirement by telling him he didn't have to practice with the team, would instantly be part of the rotation and could return to Seattle to be with his family between home games. So, Augmon went from productive starter to 3rd stringer getting zero minutes. On top of it, the guy who bumped him out of the rotation was getting special treatment.

Then Whitsitt gets the brilliant idea to sign Rod Strickland. Damon was already paranoid and whining about losing PT, especially in the 4th quarter, to Greg Anthony, and now they bring in yet another guy who has been a starting PG his entire career. It was completely unnecessary and further shattered the confidence of our starting PG.

And then, Kemp quit on the team and entered rehab. The team fell from 1st seed to 7th in just over a month and got swept in the first round. The franchise would not make it past the first round again for 14 years, when Damian Liliard hit his series winner with .9 seconds left on the clock against HOU.

I'm glad we finally have a GM that understands team chemistry and continuity. The Spurs have understood that for the last two decades. Nice to see we're catching up in that department.

BNM