Vote: Yay or Nay the 2 trades?

[Mediocre Man]

I have to wonder if the fact that the Blazers are in Paul Allen's estate isn't the biggest thing dictating these moves.

No, you don’t have to wonder that

 

[Lanny]

I dont know what is worse, being a Blazers fan during the Telfair/Ha days or right now. Its really depressing and hard to imagine it will get better from here.

Easy, Now.

 

[Lanny]

The draft pick from NO has more value than the pick Indy got, and Hart has value. I would've liked more for CJ, but I think there are legit positives with this deal. I can see why some would support and some would be against it.

I have no explanation for the Powell/Roco trade though, that was beyond incompetent.

You're half right.

 

[Lanny]

by not jumping to conclusions until the dust has settled?
Seems everyone is quick to draw a line one way or another when they have no clue where the road ends.

We wouldn't be in here if we didn't have a clue.

 

[James lamphear]

Number one these guys got traded didn't fit the system that Billups what's here in Portland. No doubt they all was pretty good individual basketball players but as group together they didn't mesh. Majority the players that we got stand between 6'5" and 6'7" tall and some will be interchangeable from the 2 guard and the 3. Plus majority of them has a even or better defense rating then the ones that left. I believe where this all going is we going be bigger and longer when it all said and for except of few players. So really we won't know if either of these trades are good until next year. Maybe we get glimpse at some of these after the all star when we they all settled in. On paper the clippers wasn't great for us and the other was little bit better. But on paper was the Lakers and Nets supposed on top of the league also but there not both hanging on as play-in teams right now. The teams there on top they all play as team with good chemistry between them. You can't throw a bunch players and think there going fit system or have good chemistry.

 

[PCmor7]

No, you don’t have to wonder that

Stop trying your Jedi mind tricks on me.

 

[PCmor7]

Nobody wanted Norm or CJ's contracts... You weren't going to get a more productive or better fitting equivalent player in return for either player, and you weren't going to have the flexibility to make moves in other places if you kept them.

That was out of Cronin's control, IMO. He made the tough choices that had to be made if we want to compete.

Now we'll find out if he can build a team.

I'm not buying that at all. We've seen worse contracts moved for more, and we had reports of other teams interested in both of those players -- as well as RoCo and Nance -- for more than we got.

 

[e_blazer]

This seems to be as good of a place to drop this John Hollinger take on the trades:

“The Blazers dropped off underperforming deals on Nance, Covington and McCollum, got out of the luxury tax, added a likely lottery pick, three seconds and a 20-year-old 2021 first-rounder, have a $21 million trade exception, added a legitimately good player on a decent contract in Hart and didn’t have to take back any dead money or bad contracts.

In short, I don’t agree with the hot take du jour that this is some crazy fire sale by Portland. It’s a completely reasonable response to a bad, expensive team. The Blazers have flexibility they haven’t had in half a decade, and that’s without yet making a call on the biggest piece of all in Damian Lillard.”

For all of the bitching around here about Olshey and CJ, seeing all of that mess undone in less than a week is pretty impressive. Maybe Cronin does know what he’s doing. We’re going to find out once he starts rebuilding now that the demo is done.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

This seems to be as good of a place to drop this John Hollinger take on the trades:

“The Blazers dropped off underperforming deals on Nance, Covington and McCollum, got out of the luxury tax, added a likely lottery pick, three seconds and a 20-year-old 2021 first-rounder, have a $21 million trade exception, added a legitimately good player on a decent contract in Hart and didn’t have to take back any dead money or bad contracts.

In short, I don’t agree with the hot take du jour that this is some crazy fire sale by Portland. It’s a completely reasonable response to a bad, expensive team. The Blazers have flexibility they haven’t had in half a decade, and that’s without yet making a call on the biggest piece of all in Damian Lillard.”

For all of the bitching around here about Olshey and CJ, seeing all of that mess undone in less than a week is pretty impressive. Maybe Cronin does know what he’s doing. We’re going to find out once he starts rebuilding now that the demo is done.

Maybe Cronin knows what he's doing. I'm certainly not sold yet.

Thing is, nobody disagrees that this was a bad, underperforming team. And few disagree that the contract for CJ, and the deals for RoCo and Powell and Nance were all probably just bad trades made by Olshey. The implication that most of us take issue with is the notion that these expendable, overpaid pieces from a bad, underperforming team didn't have value to other teams who could utilize them to fill needs/roles they couldn't fill here.

The three seconds and the TPE are fools gold. In all reality, we exchanged four useful players for one and a pick. Yes, that absolutely is a fire sale, regardless of the spin tossed out by Hollinger.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

YAY!!!

Just so happy to be blowing up this purgatory!

We’ve won a single title in like 50 years. In 1976 a new coach, an ABA dispersal draft one (sleeping) star (Walton) along with a motley crew was cast together. And following a 49-win regular season, pulled off a Cinderella playoff run that ended in the slaying of the great dragon (76’ers) culminating into our ONE nba title.

The formula for a Title is not certain. It takes the planets, moons and “star” to align, a little magic, a lot of luck, and blessings from the basketball gods.

Blowing this stagnant mess up, with a new leader, a new coach, one star…may very well be what is required to realize another miracle; a SECOND nba championship in P-town.

The week has been ugly so far BUT today is another day in our rebirth!

 

[Mediocre Man]

This seems to be as good of a place to drop this John Hollinger take on the trades:

“The Blazers dropped off underperforming deals on Nance, Covington and McCollum, got out of the luxury tax, added a likely lottery pick, three seconds and a 20-year-old 2021 first-rounder, have a $21 million trade exception, added a legitimately good player on a decent contract in Hart and didn’t have to take back any dead money or bad contracts.

In short, I don’t agree with the hot take du jour that this is some crazy fire sale by Portland. It’s a completely reasonable response to a bad, expensive team. The Blazers have flexibility they haven’t had in half a decade, and that’s without yet making a call on the biggest piece of all in Damian Lillard.”

For all of the bitching around here about Olshey and CJ, seeing all of that mess undone in less than a week is pretty impressive. Maybe Cronin does know what he’s doing. We’re going to find out once he starts rebuilding now that the demo is done.

Yep. Portland had a good day yesterday

 

[blazerkor]

I'm not buying that at all. We've seen worse contracts moved for more, and we had reports of other teams interested in both of those players -- as well as RoCo and Nance -- for more than we got.

We very obviously opted for cap flexibility aka cap space and the choice to create more cap space over talent and draft capital. So Cronin bet on our ability to make trades with more salary coming in than going out or far more likely since we don't have a lot of value on small contracts or in picks he's putting all of our eggs in the free agent basket, in Portland?!? Well I hope someone in this organization has done some major tampering and knows for certain that we're going to be able to land Dame a second star in free agency, with that cap space we freed up because Dame, an overpaid Ant who doesn't even fit with Dame even if he is a slightly better fit than CJ, Nas, a PF we get with our pick, an overpaid Nurk, Hart and a bunch of shit that hasn't come close to showing they can be a net positive on the floor is not getting us into the playoffs next season... unless that PF we get in the draft is an instant all star.

Then you hear that we were trying to pick up Grant yesterday and might still be, in order to be our second or third option. Well if you would have managed to make the Clippers pay the draft capital that would have made that trade even close to equitable that Grant trade would have been simple and the same can be said of the Pelicans trade. If we got a 2028 first from the Clippers added to that deal just to get it closer to being right and let's just say the Milwaukee 2025 first rounder instead of one of the second rounders the Pelicans gave us that are both after 2025, we would have had no problem getting Jerami Grant yesterday and keeping both of our likely lottery picks for this year.

That's why these deals fucking suck so bad because Cronin didn't get anything close to fair value in return. He gave both of those teams extra wins, especially next season, for players that were either obvious downgrades from what we were giving them or they outright didn't give a shit about.

The Clippers completely fleeced us because with the cap going up over the next 4 seasons that Norm contract will become more and more team friendly and he's a really solid player, if they re-sign RoCo all that has is tax implications for them that Balmer couldn't give a shit about because even without Norm and without picking up Zubac's option they would have been over the tax threshold. So now they get to keep RoCo if they want and use their TPMLE... for what exactly? Johnson who was getting beaten out by Boston, Winslow who they couldn't give a fuck about and Bledsoe's mostly expiring contract that would have given them no cap flexibility?!? So the only thing they have to give up for guys that will likely add quite a few wins to a championship contender next season was a 2025 second round pick. That was fucking incredibly bad... couldn't get much worse. To make that trade even close to right we should have received this year's second, next year's second and their 2028 first (the only first they can trade).

The Pelicans are swimming in picks and while we probably got one of their most valuable picks and two second rounders far in the future... that's what should have been expected when you get back Hart, NAW and fucking Satoransky for CJ... that's close to being an OK return given CJ's contract but that means we got nothing for a player who can be a serious contributor to wins on a very good contract. If Larry would have yielded just any of the multitude of firsts that the Pelicans chose to give us that would have made that trade a win for them but also something not negative for us, probably a net neutral.

 

[blazerkor]

YAY!!!

Just so happy to be blowing up this purgatory!

We’ve won a single title in like 50 years. In 1976 a new coach, an ABA dispersal draft one (sleeping) star (Walton) along with a motley crew was cast together. And following a 49-win regular season, pulled off a Cinderella playoff run that ended in the slaying of the great dragon (76’ers) culminating into our ONE nba title.

The formula for a Title is not certain. It takes the planets, moons and “star” to align, a little magic, a lot of luck, and blessings from the basketball gods.

Blowing this stagnant mess up, with a new leader, a new coach, one star…may very well be what is required to realize another miracle; a SECOND nba championship in P-town.

The week has been ugly so far BUT today is another day in our rebirth!

We should have been able to do all of that and net two more future first rounders and that's just obvious.

 

[TBpup]

No problem with clearing cap space if they have a realistic plan of how they are getting players here. And I don't want to hear about FA'cy because, 'this time will be different'. If Cronin has things worked out ahead of time so he has a reasonable shot of getting certain players that he'd already identified because of a certain situation, than fine. We've heard of the speculation of Grant, using the cap space for Simmons to help Philly get Harden, etc. All well and good. I'll be thrilled if that happens. Seems quite optimistic.

I'm still disappointed that 3 starters and a key bench player didn't bring back more than 1 1st round pick, a couple of seconds and nothing more than long-shot young players.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Maybe Cronin knows what he's doing. I'm certainly not sold yet.

Thing is, nobody disagrees that this was a bad, underperforming team. And few disagree that the contract for CJ, and the deals for RoCo and Powell and Nance were all probably just bad trades made by Olshey. The implication that most of us take issue with is the notion that these expendable, overpaid pieces from a bad, underperforming team didn't have value to other teams who could utilize them to fill needs/roles they couldn't fill here.

The three seconds and the TPE are fools gold. In all reality, we exchanged four useful players for one and a pick. Yes, that absolutely is a fire sale, regardless of the spin tossed out by Hollinger.

I don't see how you can applaud Cronin for getting out of the underperforming deal of Roco as Hollinger states. Roco deal is an expiring contract, so at worse the team could do nothing and the deal just ends, or in a number of months possibly better get something with a sign and trade or maybe even a small chance to resign on a positive team friendly deal.

Basically all the positives that are being listed are from the CJ deal and that is why a majority of this board does support that deal. The Roco/Powell trade was not good, and 80% of this board voted so. A number of writers such as Hollinger are combining their feedback to lump both deals together.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Here is an NBC analysis of the second trade:
WINNER: NEW ORLEANS PELICANS
I need to clarify the “winner” designation: Winner in that they accomplish their internal goal of getting better this season and now almost certainly making the play-in tournament (and if you’re GM David Griffin, doing things that save your job). New Orleans is also a winner in that it could have a pretty interesting offensive roster whenever Zion Williamson gets healthy and back to form. Are they winners in long-term team building? No. But when was the last time the Pelicans thought long term?
The Pelican’s offense has been the Brandon Ingram show — when he is on the court they have a top-10 offense in the league (112.1 offensive rating), when he sits they have a bottom-five offense (105 offensive rating). McCollum fixes that. He is a bucket getter — the kind the Pelicans thought Devonte' Graham would be for them— and he and Ingram can learn to play off each other. Coach Willie Green can stagger their minutes to keep the offense humming.

Also, McCollum should be a good fit playing with Zion down the line. They could have interesting two-man actions (a dribble hand-off play where Zion has the ball?) and McCollum is a good catch-and-shoot guard who will keep the floor spaced.

What puts this trade over the top for New Orleans is getting Larry Nance Jr., a quality two-way wing who can come off the bench, play good defense, get a few buckets and give them depth on the wing the team lacked.

There are issues here — a Graham and McCollum backcourt is going to be the same undersized problem Portland had, and the rest of the roster is not loaded with defenders to help out — but the Pelicans are better and are in position to reach their goal of the postseason. We’ll call that a win.

WINNER: Anfernee Simons
The runway is cleared for the Trail Blazers breakout star to become Lillard’s primary backcourt running mate the rest of this season and in the future. Simons averages 15.8 points a game and is shooting 39.2% on 3-pointers this season. He is a restricted free agent this summer and the man will get paid (by the Trail Blazers, who are not going to let another team poach him).

ASK AGAIN LATER: PORTLAND TRAIL BLAZERS
We said this same thing after the Norman Powell and Robert Covington trade with the Clippers, but it still applies. This trade not only sent out way more money than came back, but it created a $21 million trade exception Portland can use for the next year.

The Trail Blazers are reshaping their roster around Damian Lillard — you can consider him a winner here too, for that reason — and now have as much as $60 million in cap space next summer, plus draft picks and contracts to trade. The question now is what they do with all that money, all those assets — Lillard is 31 and with 10 seasons of NBA miles on his body. Portland doesn’t have time to be patient.

Portland has cleared the decks for a rebuild on the fly around Lillard, but who are they going to get? They are reportedly talking to Detroit about Jerami Grant, that could be a step (however, he wants a primary offensive role and a $112 million extension this summer), but there is a long way to go.

WINNER: JODY ALLEN’S POCKETBOOK
The Trail Blazers went from in the luxury tax a week ago to about $17 million under it now, a significant savings, plus it means they will get part of the about $10 million per team windfall payout from teams over the tax (the money teams over the tax line pay is divided among the teams under the tax line). That’s a big win for team owner Jody Allen’s pocketbook. Looking back, if Portland knew this trade was happening a few days ago, maybe they could have held on to Covington in the Clippers trade and dealt him separately to Utah or some other suitor and gotten more in return. Maybe. Still, Portland saves a lot of scratch.

LOSER: JOSH HART (MAYBE)
Josh Hart is a good player, the kind of solid role player who could help any winning team because of his versatility and all-around game. But he just got traded from one team barely making the play-in to one that now will not make it this season. Can we get this man to a good team and let him show what he can do on a bigger stage? Please? (Hart has a $13 million non-guaranteed deal for next season. Portland could waive him to clear cap space and that would flip Hart to a winner, but more likely they keep him, or trade him again to a team that will keep him on that value contract for another season.)

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

CBS
Trail Blazers trade grade: D
Reports started circulating soon after the deal that the Blazers plan to pursue high-end talent now rather than retreat. High-end talent? Like McCollum himself? The goal, seemingly, is to use the $60 million in potential cap space the Blazers created along with the draft capital acquired in both this trade and Friday's deal with the Clippers to reload immediately … but Portland walked away from both trades with only one extra first-round pick and that $60 million cap space figure is a work of pure fiction. Yes, the Blazers technically could create significant space, but it would require all of the following:

• Finding a taker for Eric Bledsoe. He has $3.9 million in guaranteed money that will sit on Portland's books next summer if he is waived.
• Waiving Josh Hart. While Hart is presumably the centerpiece of the McCollum deal, his $13 million salary for next season is technically not guaranteed.
• Renouncing their rights to Anfernee Simons (who has an $11.8 million cap hold) and Jusuf Nurkic ($18 million).

Getting off of Bledsoe would be difficult, but probably doable. But waiving Hart and renouncing Simons and Nurkic only gives the Blazers more players to replace, and considering the players they've already given up, they were already operating at a meaningful talent deficit. Perhaps in a better free-agent class sacrificing so much talent for space would make sense, but the NBA's recent trend of extending almost every contract before free agency has left this offseason's market somewhat devoid of difference-makers. Do the Blazers think they can swipe Deandre Ayton away from the Suns? Unlikely considering their ability to match any offer he gets as a restricted free agent. Odds are, James Harden and Bradley Beal aren't interested either. They want to win. Beyond those three, there just aren't difference-makers on the market.

More likely, the Blazers will continue to operate as an above-the-cap team and make use of the $21 million trade exception that this deal generated. That is a pretty sizable salary slot they could potentially fill without moving off of Hart, Nurkic or Simons, and there are a few notable players in this deadline's rumor mill that would fit into it, including:

• Myles Turner, making $18 million
• Jerami Grant, making roughly $20 million
• Harrison Barnes, making roughly $20.3 million

In other words, the Blazers don't necessarily need to be done dealing at the deadline. They could, in theory, fill that trade exception now and send back some of the assets accumulated in these past two trades. With their own pick likely now falling into the lottery, the Blazers could position themselves to be moderately competitive again as soon as next season.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

SI
Blazers: C+
The biggest issue with this Blazers’ fire sale is the price they paid for the players they are now parting with. As has been pointed out by a few people now, Portland traded away three firsts to acquire Covington and Nance. Now those two players, as well as talented vets like Powell and McCollum have been shipped out, with only one first-round pick coming back in return. Of course, Portland’s current front office can only look forward, and the Blazers now have plenty more flexibility to put a new team around Damian Lillard—provided he still wants to stay.

Portland will have less than $70 million in salary commitments next season, giving them space to re-sign the emerging Anfernee Simons as well as chase a free agent or two. Hart can come off the books or be kept around for the next iteration of a playoff contender. (If the Blazers really do want to build around Dame still, keeping Hart seems logical.) And the first-round pick should be valuable, landing in Portland if it’s between selections five and 14 this year, or in the future if not.

Obviously, the Blazers were hoping to extract every last bit of draft capital and potential future contributors from their trades this week. For now, their future seems mostly tied to financial flexibility, and while not nothing, it is possibly the riskiest long-term play. Ultimately, the trades Portland makes now can’t really be judged until at least this upcoming offseason.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[PCmor7]

Got to remove Cody's pic from that box.

 

[wizenheimer]

Basically all the positives that are being listed are from the CJ deal and that is why a majority of this board does support that deal. The Roco/Powell trade was not good, and 80% of this board voted so. A number of writers such as Hollinger are combining their feedback to lump both deals together.

exactly

two things are pretty clear: the first is that nothing about the 2nd trade depended on the first trade; that had been the main thing uses by people to justify that Clippers trade. Didn't materialize.

The 2nd thing is that the 1st trade was just purely bad. The "Johnson-is-a-21st-pick" narrative is a bogus justification that doesn't survive any scrutiny. And we saw in last night's game the good and bad of Winslow, and on balance it's probably more bad than good, especially considering the redundancy of NAW and Winslow.

it's a little tin-foil hat but here goes: what has everybody, including myself, trashing that Clippers trade is the terrible return on draft assets. Everybody expected more. Subsequent reporting sure implied there should have been more. So here is the question: why the fuck did the Blazers engage in trade discussions with a team that had no first round picks to trade until 2028? Why did they combine Powell & Roco and send them to that very team? The Ballmer-Jody Allen-Microsoft-Billups connections are just to large to not generate conspiracy theories.

 

[HailBlazers]

Why did they combine Powell & Roco and send them to that very team? The Ballmer-Jody Allen-Microsoft-Billups connections are just to large to not generate conspiracy theories.

It's quite the head scratcher. Sending one would have made some sense. But both?

 

[e_blazer]

Maybe Cronin knows what he's doing. I'm certainly not sold yet.

Thing is, nobody disagrees that this was a bad, underperforming team. And few disagree that the contract for CJ, and the deals for RoCo and Powell and Nance were all probably just bad trades made by Olshey. The implication that most of us take issue with is the notion that these expendable, overpaid pieces from a bad, underperforming team didn't have value to other teams who could utilize them to fill needs/roles they couldn't fill here.

The three seconds and the TPE are fools gold. In all reality, we exchanged four useful players for one and a pick. Yes, that absolutely is a fire sale, regardless of the spin tossed out by Hollinger.

Well, to borrow a quote from the late Sam Rayburn, “Any jackass can kick down a barn but it takes a good carpenter to build one.”

We’ll have to wait awhile to see if Cronin is a carpenter or a jackass.