Wallace Diop and Augustine for Miller/Camby

[Fez Hammersticks]

If that's true it seems like the player Cho is trying to get is DJ Augustin.

 

[brooklynballer]

If that's true it seems like the player Cho is trying to get is DJ Augustin.

Or, could it be that Cho wants a PG in return if we're shipping out Miller? Augustin is only coming back in that trade because we don't have a legitimate option at PG behind Miller.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

What I don't get is why you fire Larry Brown and THEN do this deal. LB would LOVE to have Camby and Miller! I thought they fired Brown so that they could get YOUNGER.

This was a deal that was probably talked about when Brown was head coach. My guess is that the Bobcats atleast see what they have with a new coach and then make a move to shake things up.

 

[LameR]

2 seasons ago this trade would have been:

Steve Blake/Travis Outlaw/Raef LaFrentz

for

Gerald Wallace/DJ Augustin/Desagna Diop

Does that sound any better to anyone? Because that's what this trade is (Camby=Blake/Outlaw) + (Dre=Raef LaFrentz EC)...........

Difference being Camby > Blake/Outlaw and Dre > Raef

 

[Further]

There seems to be a lot of possibilities that could net both team what they are looking for. THis exast trade may or may not be dead, but I bet talks persist.

 

[Sinobas]

This would be a GREAT trade for the Blazers. Gerald Wallace is awesome! I'd miss Miller and Camby, but this would be a great move for Portland. Cho had better not pass this up.

 

[barfo]

I don't know. I love all players named Wallace, but it seems to me the biggest issue this team has is the hole at PGOTF. This trade makes that hole worse by making it more immediate. We'd be strong at 4 positions, very weak at 1. Can we live with that?

barfo

 

[Further]

I don't know. I love all players named Wallace, but it seems to me the biggest issue this team has is the hole at PGOTF. This trade makes that hole worse by making it more immediate. We'd be strong at 4 positions, very weak at 1. Can we live with that?

barfo

I think we can live with that for a few reasons. Although Miller is most certainly a better PG, he does not work well for a team with Roy. We need to spread the floor, and we need a PG that is pass first. DJ has a decent outside shot and distributes well. DJ is the worse PG, but that drop in talent is somewhat negated by being a better fit.

THis gives Roy a shot to try and come back and produce in a system that is more to his liking. Hopefully, this will raise Roy's value and he can be traded in the offseason.

On D, DJ is worse than Miller, but if he is getting burned too badly, Wes can come in for ROy or DJ, providing some cover. And with SF/PF/C of Batum/Crash/LMA the D on the inside will be pretty good.

This trade is not just for this season, but it gets us something for an aging and soon expiring Camby and Miller. DJ is cheap and although not a great PG, he is young and should be a good backup if the Blazers are ever able to find a PGotF. He can hold down the starting spot for now, and if he does not improve, on his contract he should be easy to move or slide to backup.

I like the trade. NOt perfect, but a slight upgrade for this season and gets us some usable assets for the future.

 

[Minstrel]

Although Miller is most certainly a better PG, he does not work well for a team with Roy.

While I never thought this was strictly true, it was a point I could at least understand people making. However, it no longer matters what works well for a team with Roy, because he appears done as an impact or franchise player. His problem is a physical one that is never going to go away (barring a miracle breakthrough in medical science within the next few years). As far as I can tell, his upside at this point is Grant Hill...a former wonderful player who had a few years of almost no value before reinventing his game enough to become a valuable complementary player.

That seems like the best case.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

While I never thought this was strictly true, it was a point I could at least understand people making. However, it no longer matters what works well for a team with Roy, because he appears done as an impact or franchise player. His problem is a physical one that is never going to go away (barring a miracle breakthrough in medical science within the next few years). As far as I can tell, his upside at this point is Grant Hill...a former wonderful player who had a few years of almost no value before reinventing his game enough to become a valuable complementary player.

That seems like the best case.

That's exactly what I was thinking. This re-tooling to appease Roy never made sense because how is it in this teams best interest to keep building around a broken down shell who's nowhere near the player he once was?

 

[barfo]

I think we can live with that for a few reasons. Although Miller is most certainly a better PG, he does not work well for a team with Roy. We need to spread the floor, and we need a PG that is pass first. DJ has a decent outside shot and distributes well. DJ is the worse PG, but that drop in talent is somewhat negated by being a better fit.

THis gives Roy a shot to try and come back and produce in a system that is more to his liking. Hopefully, this will raise Roy's value and he can be traded in the offseason.

Well, you are saying that we should trade our most tradeable assets in order to set ourselves up to trade Roy. That has the obvious danger that maybe the offers for Roy won't be so good, even if we temporarily surround him with players he likes, and also that we'll be stuck with those Roy-compatible players long after Roy is (hypothetically) traded.

barfo

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I'm not really sold on Augustin being any better than the backups we have now. We could leave him out of the trade and give them Joel instead of Camby, I think I would be more comfortable with that; then still try to trade Batum for a top PG. I just don't see the point of adding a young PG when we have two who may be better than him a year or two down the road; Augustin does not seem to be making progress; it seems Larry Brown had a lot higher opinion of him a few years back than he does today. Before I would make the trade at all, I would want to know why Wallace's production is down this year; is it something fixable, or is there some reasons he would be more effective with us?

 

[Further]

Well, you are saying that we should trade our most tradeable assets in order to set ourselves up to trade Roy. That has the obvious danger that maybe the offers for Roy won't be so good, even if we temporarily surround him with players he likes, and also that we'll be stuck with those Roy-compatible players long after Roy is (hypothetically) traded.

barfo

The Blazers are in a shitty spot. Thier best player is no longer very good, and he is signed to a huge and long contract. No option regarding Roy is really a good option. However, keeping him and hoping for the best is the worst idea because in each of the next 4 seasons his legs will get worse and his contract will become more of a noose around the Blazers neck. I think the Blazers need to take a risk in getting players that will help Roy NOW, so that he can be traded in the offseason.
Right now, his value is total shit. But if the Blazers can up his value, perhaps we can get out ofthe crap contract and build anew. And the players coming back, aside from Diop, should remain tradeable in the future. So even if they are not the right longterm answer, they are the best shot at getting out from under Roy. And if things don't work out, then at least we have some tradable contracts to try a different plan. But losing Camby and Miller in the offseason for nothing will do nothing for the longterm health of the franchise.
And Crash is good, DJ is decent, and Diop's contract will be expiring in the season after the lockout. Not the perfect trade, but acceptable.

 

[bodyman5001]

The deal is fine, whatever. I just wish people would stop comparing Grant Hill and Brandon Roy.

Hill can play full time without limping around a basketball court. He just took FOREVER to get healthy. Brandon will never get healthy without some sort of meniscus transplant. Never.

 

[Trader Ed]

Augustine is a career 40.6% shooter from 3 pt land

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dj_augustin/career_stats.html

 

[Jayps15]

Augustine is a career 40.6% shooter from 3 pt land

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dj_augustin/career_stats.html

His 3pt shooting has gone down both years since his rookie year, to only 35% from beyond the arc this season.

Also look at the career numbers for Player A compared to Player B here:
Player A: MPG: 24.1 FG: 41.4% 3PT: 40.6% RPG: 1.8 APG: 3.4 TOV: 1.3 PPG: 9.5 PER: 13.6
Player B: MPG: 25.4 FG: 41.0% 3PT: 39.6% RPG: 2.1 APG: 4.2 TOV: 1.4 PPG: 7.4 PER: 11.9

Ones Augustin, any guesses on the other?

 

[barfo]

The Blazers are in a shitty spot. Thier best player is no longer very good, and he is signed to a huge and long contract. No option regarding Roy is really a good option. However, keeping him and hoping for the best is the worst idea because in each of the next 4 seasons his legs will get worse and his contract will become more of a noose around the Blazers neck.

Is the contract really that bad for the blazers? Sure, it's huge, but would the blazers be under the cap if Roy vanished tomorrow? Is cap space a real objective for this team? If we aren't going to be far enough under the cap to sign big-time free agents, then Roy's contract really only affects Paul's wallet.

Call me insensitive, but I don't much mind if Paul is willing to spend an extra $17 million + tax to have Roy sit on the bench. It's his money, he can spend it how he likes. Of course, if he says "well, we can't sign anyone else because of Roy's contract", then I'd agree with you. But so far, he hasn't said that. Maybe he won't.

barfo

 

[cdub503]

His 3pt shooting has gone down both years since his rookie year, to only 35% from beyond the arc this season.

Also look at the career numbers for Player A compared to Player B here:
Player A: MPG: 24.1 FG: 41.4% 3PT: 40.6% RPG: 1.8 APG: 3.4 TOV: 1.3 PPG: 9.5 PER: 13.6
Player B: MPG: 25.4 FG: 41.0% 3PT: 39.6% RPG: 2.1 APG: 4.2 TOV: 1.4 PPG: 7.4 PER: 11.9

Ones Augustin, any guesses on the other?

bayless?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

bayless?

Not Bayless; he's sporting a 15 PER but a 34% 3P%

 

[brooklynballer]

His 3pt shooting has gone down both years since his rookie year, to only 35% from beyond the arc this season.

Also look at the career numbers for Player A compared to Player B here:
Player A: MPG: 24.1 FG: 41.4% 3PT: 40.6% RPG: 1.8 APG: 3.4 TOV: 1.3 PPG: 9.5 PER: 13.6
Player B: MPG: 25.4 FG: 41.0% 3PT: 39.6% RPG: 2.1 APG: 4.2 TOV: 1.4 PPG: 7.4 PER: 11.9

Ones Augustin, any guesses on the other?

Player B's gotta be Steve Blake. So does that mean DJ Augustin is really a backup-calibre player? His numbers sure seem to suggest that.

 

[Minstrel]

Augustin is only 23, though. He had a terrible sophomore year, which brings his career numbers down, but being about 3-4 years from his prime, he has the potential to be an above average starter. I'm not a huge Augustin fan, but his production and age are a little promising.

 

[Further]

Is the contract really that bad for the blazers? Sure, it's huge, but would the blazers be under the cap if Roy vanished tomorrow? Is cap space a real objective for this team? If we aren't going to be far enough under the cap to sign big-time free agents, then Roy's contract really only affects Paul's wallet.

Call me insensitive, but I don't much mind if Paul is willing to spend an extra $17 million + tax to have Roy sit on the bench. It's his money, he can spend it how he likes. Of course, if he says "well, we can't sign anyone else because of Roy's contract", then I'd agree with you. But so far, he hasn't said that. Maybe he won't.

barfo

The problem is that one of the biggest things that I have heard discussed regarding the new CBA and one that analysts think the owners will win, is that there will be a Hard Cap. Sure, it may not happen, but if it does, then having Roy will mean not having some other player regardless of what Paul is willing to spend.

 

[Nikolokolus]

The problem is that one of the biggest things that I have heard discussed regarding the new CBA and one that analysts think the owners will win, is that there will be a Hard Cap. Sure, it may not happen, but if it does, then having Roy will mean not having some other player regardless of what Paul is willing to spend.

I don't think all or even a majority of the owners want a hard cap as it would seriously impair the ability of teams in large markets like New York or LA or those with billionaire owners to leverage wins with their ability to spend; there are some truly big spending teams like Dallas, Orlando and the Lakers that would be at a serious competitive disadvantage if a hard cap goes into effect. Although I suppose some mechanism might be written into the language of the new CBA to give such teams an ability to gradually pare down payroll.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Augustin is only 23, though. He had a terrible sophomore year, which brings his career numbers down, but being about 3-4 years from his prime, he has the potential to be an above average starter. I'm not a huge Augustin fan, but his production and age are a little promising.

It'll be interesting to see what he could do with talent around him. Since coming into the league he hasn't had much to work with outside Jackson and Wallace.

**edit**

Raymond Felton is thriving in an uptempo system. His assists went up from 5 to 9 and his per from 15 to 19.