Walmart worker killed by frenzied shoppers

[MARIS61]

And yet this happened. If the conditions were the same everywhere, why did it happen there?

barfo

The only variable seems to be the actual human beings who committed this horrible murder without provocation.

If so, was WalMart unaware that this store was located in a bad neighborhood? Were they unaware of the type of people who were their likely customers that Friday morning?

I'm sure they were unaware the neighborhood was as depraved as it was, and did not intentionally seek to have murderers attend their sale en masse.

 

[MARIS61]

Now you are back to arguing that it was just chance, and could have happened anywhere, at any store. Either shoppers at that particular WalMart are evil, and thus this could have been prevented, or it was a random event that could have happened anywhere (all shoppers are potential murderers).

barfo

Chance, yes, but not that it could happen anywhere. There is seldom a way to be forewarned of evil people's future actions, particulary when mob action is an element, and there is no revenge motive.

 

[DaRizzle]

Barfo...your argument is that Walmart wasnt prepared for crowd control...Well there SHOULD NOT BE ANY! When the hell has anyone said there should be crowd control at stores. If you think Walmart is at fault then you think there should be crowd control for EVERY sale by stores...WTF?!?

 

[Minstrel]

Barfo...your argument is that Walmart wasnt prepared for crowd control...Well there SHOULD NOT BE ANY! When the hell has anyone said there should be crowd control at stores.

Any time a company expects a huge crowd at an event (and Black Friday has definitely been elevated to, and promoted like, a major event), they have responsibility to provide adequate crowd control. Crowd control doesn't have to be police/security guards (it can be temporary walls to divide crowds into manageable groups, etc), but certainly crowd control is expected at major events. I have no idea whether Walmart was deficient in that, but I disagree with your claim that Walmart wasn't responsible for any crowd control at all.

 

[DaRizzle]

but I disagree with your claim that Walmart wasn't responsible for any crowd control at all.

Well then put up crowd control for every major store for every holiday sale across the USA...you gotta be kidding me

 

[MARIS61]

Obviously, there was thought given to the size of the crowd. I am sure there was a huge security force there to watch for shoplifters. That is normal because a degree of theft is expected.

Maniacal mob action is rarely expected, and never before at WalMart.

Besides mowing down hundreds of people with machine guns as they stormed the doors, what could have been done?

 

[Minstrel]

Well then put up crowd control for every major store for every holiday sale across the USA...you gotta be kidding me

Every major store that has a massively promoted sale, sure. You act like "crowd control" is some huge, extreme measure, like involving the National Guard. Crowd control can be as simple as having some people outside the store, keeping things organized and not a mob. This would be insane?

 

[bodyman5001]

Re: OT: Walmart worker killed by frenzied shoppers

What if my business, as a promotion, said that the first 3 people in the door the Friday after Thanksgiving would receive $10 million cash? And let's assume that I provided no crowd control whatsoever.

Would you assert that I was completely blameless if someone got hurt?

Isn't the difference between that and WalMart just a matter of degree?



It's hard to imagine a scenario where Obama himself would be in jail. However, if he knowingly failed to provide adequate crowd control, his organization might be liable.

barfo

Nope, you would be to blame. I had to reread the thread to see make sure I understood what you were saying. I actually didn't find the answer really. Are you saying WalMart should be taken to criminal court or should they just lose millions of dollars in civil court? Or something else.

Without being there to see what happened, I can't say what I believe really. I do know that I saw a link on Yahoo today that wants to BAN black friday sales. That is way out of line IMO.

 

[MARIS61]

Re: OT: Walmart worker killed by frenzied shoppers

Without being there to see what happened, I can't say what I believe really. I do know that I saw a link on Yahoo today that wants to BAN black friday sales.

While it's true the mob was almost entirely black, I don't think making blacks shop only Sat-Thurs is a realistic solution.

This should be treated as any other mob action would be, such as a lynching.

Find those responsible (they are on film), prosecute them, punish them as severely as the law allows.

Next year people may think twice.

 

[DaRizzle]

While it's true the mob was almost entirely black, I don't think making blacks shop only Sat-Thurs is a realistic solution

Is this a crafty joke or the biggest misread in the history of forums???

either way...hilarious

 

[barfo]

Re: OT: Walmart worker killed by frenzied shoppers

Nope, you would be to blame. I had to reread the thread to see make sure I understood what you were saying. I actually didn't find the answer really. Are you saying WalMart should be taken to criminal court or should they just lose millions of dollars in civil court? Or something else.

I've just been responding to the assertions in this thread that WalMart is utterly blameless. What fraction of the blame they bear, and what, if any, penalty they should suffer would require a careful analysis of facts that I don't have access to. I assert only that there is probable cause to believe they bear some responsibility.

Without being there to see what happened, I can't say what I believe really. I do know that I saw a link on Yahoo today that wants to BAN black friday sales. That is way out of line IMO.

Yes, that would be a massive overreaction. We don't ban cars just because tens of thousands die in car wrecks. It would be pretty silly to ban sales just because one person got trampled.

barfo

 

[Real]

I don't think I've ever gone out for shopping on Black Friday. Ever.

There are certain things that you have to try at least once in your life. That's not one of them. Besides, everything I ever needed to buy for Christmas gifts was available a week later when things aren't so chaotic.

 

[bodyman5001]

Re: OT: Walmart worker killed by frenzied shoppers

I've just been responding to the assertions in this thread that WalMart is utterly blameless. What fraction of the blame they bear, and what, if any, penalty they should suffer would require a careful analysis of facts that I don't have access to. I assert only that there is probable cause to believe they bear some responsibility.



Yes, that would be a massive overreaction. We don't ban cars just because tens of thousands die in car wrecks. It would be pretty silly to ban sales just because one person got trampled.

barfo

That is where I get confused. Probable cause? I think criminal court when I hear that. I don't think a criminal investigation is too far fetched in this case, but one would think that they would do so just because of the death involved. WalMart should be held accountable for this if they knowingly did something wrong. That is something we should all agree on.

 

[maxiep]

The family of the temp worker are suing both Wal-Mart and the mall.

 

[MARIS61]

The family of the temp worker are suing both Wal-Mart and the mall.

In their mad scramble for cash (ironically similar to the greed-driven scramble that started this all) have they given any thought or effort to finding the actual PEOPLE who murdered their loved one?

Granted, their pockets aren't as deep, but justice and revenge are what would be my focus in that situation.

This only re-inforces the horrific impression I have had for decades of all New Yorkers.

 

[DaRizzle]

MINEOLA, N.Y. – Wal-Mart agreed Wednesday to pay nearly $2 million and improve safety at its 92 New York stores as part of a deal with prosecutors that avoids criminal charges in the trampling death of a temporary worker.

Nassau County District Attorney Kathleen Rice, who began a criminal investigation shortly after last November's customer stampede at Wal-Mart's Valley Stream store, said that if she had brought criminal charges against the retailer for negligence in the worker's death, the company would have been subject to only a $10,000 fine if convicted.

Instead, she said, the company has agreed to implement an improved crowd-management plan for post-Thanksgiving Day sales, set up a $400,000 victims' compensation and remuneration fund, and give a $1.5 million grant to Nassau County social services programs and nonprofit groups.

The agreement included no admission of guilt by Wal-Mart.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090506/ap_on_bi_ge/us_wal_mart_death

 

[Nate Dogg]

So what does this mean, using cattleguards? How are they going to control the lines?

 

[Anima]

So what does this mean, using cattleguards? How are they going to control the lines?

I would assume it would be something like what Best Buy does and allow a limited number of people into to store at any given time, or perhaps hire several (one or two dozen for each store) security guards for that day, or maybe even a combination of the two.

 

[maxiep]

See, this is what a jobs program looks like. Walmart will hire more people overnight. The Federal Government is asking us to wait years for the stimulus.