Exclusive War with Iran starting this week (3 Viewers)

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[2Fluffy4U]

Let me simplify this for you:
Zionism = a political movement.
Judaism = a religion.
Israel bombed a synagogue in Iran. Full stop.

The writer could have just said that. Instead he dressed it up in loaded labels to push a narrative — and that's exactly what propaganda does. It takes a real event and wraps it in ideology so you stop thinking and start reacting.

The fact that a synagogue was destroyed is genuinely terrible and worth discussing. But the moment you frame it as 'US-Israel Axis (Zionist) vs Judaism' you've already left the realm of facts and entered the realm of manipulation.

If you can't report a news event without ideological packaging, ask yourself why. And if you're reading posts like this and nodding along without questioning the framing — you're not being informed, you're being steered.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

OMG! Hilarious, and you can dance to it.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[Sheldon Shape]

 

[Sheldon Shape]

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[e_blazer]

I'll take "Things Trump says to Himself Every Time He Takes a Dump", Alex.

 

[riverman]

Let me simplify this for you:
Zionism = a political movement.
Judaism = a religion.
Israel bombed a synagogue in Iran. Full stop.

The writer could have just said that. Instead he dressed it up in loaded labels to push a narrative — and that's exactly what propaganda does. It takes a real event and wraps it in ideology so you stop thinking and start reacting.

The fact that a synagogue was destroyed is genuinely terrible and worth discussing. But the moment you frame it as 'US-Israel Axis (Zionist) vs Judaism' you've already left the realm of facts and entered the realm of manipulation.

If you can't report a news event without ideological packaging, ask yourself why. And if you're reading posts like this and nodding along without questioning the framing — you're not being informed, you're being steered.

I believe you are also ideologically packaging the narrative about all Palestinians wanting to wipe out the Jewish state. Not all Muslims are fundamentalists just like not all Christian’s are fundamentalists. That door swings both ways whether the soldiers threaten each other with battle cry dogma. Innocent civilians are dying senselessly. Your govt as well as mine should be making peace not war

 

[2Fluffy4U]

I believe you are also ideologically packaging the narrative about all Palestinians wanting to wipe out the Jewish state. Not all Muslims are fundamentalists just like not all Christian’s are fundamentalists. That door swings both ways whether the soldiers threaten each other with battle cry dogma. Innocent civilians are dying senselessly. Your govt as well as mine should be making peace not war

I Never said all. But when you look at the numbers. (I can provide sources from recent polls but feel free to look yourself if my sources can be questioned) - the answer is 'the majority'.
The reality is - in Israel - Smotrich and Ben gvir account for 5% of israeli votes in the election - and they are a part of the gov, but their ideology is being tuted all over social media as Isreali consensus. However - no one on social media is showing what Palestinians want in practicality - only via emotional triggering ideations (a la freedom from occupation, human rights etc).

Can you look up and survey and tell me - what is the solution majority of Palestinans want? Not a slogan reply - but a solution. Real one.
What is the endgame? What would be feasible and acceptable solution?
2 states solution? Tried it - they refused the offer of 99% Gaza West Bank land including east Jerusalem.
Show me one source that can provide a solid suggestion of practical solution.
I have yet to see a single Palestinian willing to freely say they acknowledge Tel Aviv as Israel.
If not a single Palestinian can say Tel Aviv is Israel like I can say Ramalla is Palestine - the conflict will never end. And the practical blame is on you - people who are not knowing this and enable this victimhood to keep snowballing and (not you specifically) retweeting narratives conveying zionism as something horrendous thing where in fact it is highly legitimate political movement. (Btw, I would argue Palestinians are basically zionist copycats - prove me wrong).
The concept of a distinct "Palestinian people" is a modern political invention rather than a historically documented ethnic identity. Prior to 1948, the term "Palestinian" was simply a geographic label applied to all inhabitants of British Mandate Palestine — Arabs, Jews, Christians alike — as evidenced by institutions like the Jewish-run Palestine Post and Palestine Symphony Orchestra. When the UN drafted Resolution 181 in 1947, it did not recognize a distinct "Palestinian people" — it called for a Jewish state and an Arab state, reflecting the actual demographic and political reality of the time. Following Israel's establishment and the Arab world's rejection of partition, Palestinian Arab leaders — most prominently Yasser Arafat through the PLO — systematically constructed a distinct national identity in the 1960s, mirroring the Zionist model of building national consciousness around a territorial claim. Where Zionism was a genuine response to centuries of Jewish statelessness and persecution, Palestinian nationalism emerged as a reactive political movement, borrowing Zionism's own framework of indigenous peoplehood and self-determination — but applied retroactively to a population that the international community itself had categorized simply as "Arabs" just two decades earlier.
Anyway, I digressed. Bottom line - show me what contemporary Palestinian endgame is and we can proceed from that.
Also - not basing my argument on this sole video - but sharing as support. When was the last time you saw the actual people of the area answer questions? (And not western podcasters talking on behalf)

 

[riverman]

Anyway, I digressed. Bottom line - show me what contemporary Palestinian endgame is and we can proceed from that.

I'm not qualified to speak for Palestinian people, I'm watching and listening and what I've heard is a lot of ideological blanket statements about Palestinians...I always find it suspect when someone talks about a people like that and you have done that. I'm not saying I know anything your situation, I'm listening but you brought up ideological packaging and I thought it was an oxymoron given your post. I'm not going to play chess with AI over it though. You're welcome to your own opinions.

 

[2Fluffy4U]

I'm not qualified to speak for Palestinian people, I'm watching and listening and what I've heard is a lot of ideological blanket statements about Palestinians...I always find it suspect when someone talks about a people like that and you have done that. I'm not saying I know anything your situation, I'm listening but you brought up ideological packaging and I thought it was an oxymoron given your post. I'm not going to play chess with AI over it though. You're welcome to your own opinions.

You said you're not qualified to speak for Palestinians — and I respect that humility. But let me ask you something.
Earlier in this thread, people had no problem saying what Israel wants: ethnic cleansing, Greater Israel, genocide, Zionist domination. Nobody stopped to say "I can't speak for Israelis."
You can tell me what America wants under its current leadership. I can tell you what Iran's regime wants. We can characterize entire governments and movements all day.
So I'm not asking you to be a Palestinian spokesperson. I'm asking what you know — the same way you know things about any other party in this conflict. What is the Palestinian political goal, as stated by their own leaders, their own charters, their own polls?
Not feelings. Not slogans. Just — what do they say they want?

 

[ehizzy3]

You said you're not qualified to speak for Palestinians — and I respect that humility. But let me ask you something.
Earlier in this thread, people had no problem saying what Israel wants: ethnic cleansing, Greater Israel, genocide, Zionist domination. Nobody stopped to say "I can't speak for Israelis."
You can tell me what America wants under its current leadership. I can tell you what Iran's regime wants. We can characterize entire governments and movements all day.
So I'm not asking you to be a Palestinian spokesperson. I'm asking what you know — the same way you know things about any other party in this conflict. What is the Palestinian political goal, as stated by their own leaders, their own charters, their own polls?
Not feelings. Not slogans. Just — what do they say they want?

too much AI

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[2Fluffy4U]

too much AI

Sure.
So if I say my comment now is 0% AI - asking - what do they want? What do Palestinian want? Do they ackonweldge Palestine can never be from the river to the sea? Can they say without any word gymnastic that Tel aviv is Israel (remind you I can say Ramalla and Gaza and West Bank is Palestine).

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[riverman]

Sure.
So if I say my comment now is 0% AI - asking - what do they want? What do Palestinian want? Do they ackonweldge Palestine can never be from the river to the sea? Can they say without any word gymnastic that Tel aviv is Israel (remind you I can say Ramalla and Gaza and West Bank is Palestine).

Yes, many want a two state solution and equal water rights. Folk singer Steve Earle traveled there years ago and had a concert with Palestinian and Israeli musicians that wanted nothing to do with the political tensions between the two peoples. Cat Stevens talks about a two state solution as does Palestinian comedian Mo Amer. I think there are more people fed up with the stalemate than you allude to in your posts. I'm a war veteran who is anti war. I can talk about why we had no business in Viet Nam but I can't speak for the Palestinian stalemate other than Jimmy Carter seemed to be the voice of reason and he promoted a two state solution. Military people have more in common with each other than with the artists from their perspective cultures generally speaking. I subscribe to Cat Stevens web site and he's a voice of reason from the culture you claim has no voice of reason. I recommend you hear his voice concerning your dilema. I have no idea what "word gymnastics" means in this context (unless it's AI blathering away) but words don't have that much clout when dodging bullets and bombs. There's a reason we are born with two ears and only one mouth.

 

[2Fluffy4U]

Yes, many want a two state solution and equal water rights. Folk singer Steve Earle traveled there years ago and had a concert with Palestinian and Israeli musicians that wanted nothing to do with the political tensions between the two peoples. Cat Stevens talks about a two state solution as does Palestinian comedian Mo Amer. I think there are more people fed up with the stalemate than you allude to in your posts. I'm a war veteran who is anti war. I can talk about why we had no business in Viet Nam but I can't speak for the Palestinian stalemate other than Jimmy Carter seemed to be the voice of reason and he promoted a two state solution. Military people have more in common with each other than with the artists from their perspective cultures generally speaking. I subscribe to Cat Stevens web site and he's a voice of reason from the culture you claim has no voice of reason. I recommend you hear his voice concerning your dilema. I have no idea what "word gymnastics" means in this context (unless it's AI blathering away) but words don't have that much clout when dodging bullets and bombs. There's a reason we are born with two ears and only one mouth.

Thanks for this reply, I appreciate as always your input and views. I was using 'word gymnastic' to refer to the fact that no one here including yourself has yet to say what they think the Palestinian people actually want. Now if by what you replied you mean to say you think they want a two state solution - that is more than fine and it is a notion worth saying if that is how you think.
I would then say that IMO that ship has sadly sailed.
In my view - this conflict will only end when there are at least two to three generations ahead into the future that were able to live without active armed conflict. Only then the flames will die down and people will be willing to compromise - on both ends.
The solution is simple in my mind - Israel accepts and agrees for a Palestinian state in Gaza and West bank (mutual swaps etc'). And Palestinians accepts Israel and agrees for an Israeli state (Borders set from Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and the new established Palestinian state).
Not many have this discussion - but sadly whenever the issue reaches practicality and actual land division - Rabin, Peres, Barak, Ulmert were all willing but the other side not. Even Bibi shook hands with Arafat as he knew the only way for him to rule was to follow what the people want. Peace.
But those times are long gone. Today in Social media era where narratives are easily created and minds are easily reached - those in power don't need peace. They want the people to keep scrolling tik tok and run thru emotion evoking tweets so they can feel alive (find meaning and cause).
Why do we watch NBA? Because it allows escapism. Why would people all over the world would care so much about the conflict (where in reality millions die around the world) - because it allows escapism.
I digress again so my bottom line is - people usually (not you) easily blame Israel for everything but forget to check or learn what the other side actually want.
And BTW, I love Cat Stevens (he is now known as Yusuf Islam). I listen to his music all the time on my Technics 70s turntable, but he would defenetliy won't like me back (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Stevens's_comments_about_Salman_Rushdie#:~:text=When asked what I'd,be the "real thing".)

And to clear things up and maybe provide some AI learning curve - the above is all me. And here below is the AI version:

Thanks for your reply — I always appreciate your input and perspective.

When I used the term 'word gymnastics,' I was pointing to the fact that no one here — yourself included — has actually stated what they believe the Palestinian people want. If your reply was meant to suggest you think they want a two-state solution, that's a perfectly valid position and worth stating plainly. I'd simply respond that, in my view, that ship has sadly sailed.

My honest belief is that this conflict will only end when two or three generations have lived without active armed conflict. Only then will the flames begin to die down and genuine compromise become possible — on both sides.

The formula itself isn't complicated: Israel recognizes and accepts a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank (with agreed land swaps), and Palestinians recognize and accept Israel as a state, with borders defined by Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and the newly established Palestinian state. Straightforward in principle — impossibly difficult in practice.

This is rarely discussed openly, but whenever the conflict reaches the stage of actual, practical land division, the pattern has been striking: Rabin, Peres, Barak, and Olmert were all willing. The other side was not. Even Netanyahu shook Arafat's hand, because he understood that following the people's desire for peace was the only path to power. Those days feel very distant now.

In the social media era, narratives are cheap and emotions are weaponized. Those in power no longer need peace — they need people scrolling through TikTok and reacting to outrage-driven tweets to feel a sense of meaning and cause. We watch the NBA for escapism. People around the world fixate on this conflict — while millions die elsewhere with barely a mention — for the same reason. It fills something.

I'll rein myself in, but my core point remains: most people (not you) find it easy to blame Israel for everything without ever pausing to ask — or learn — what the other side actually wants.

On a lighter note — I love Cat Stevens, now Yusuf Islam. I play his records on my Technics 70s turntable regularly. Though I suspect, given his views, the feeling would not be mutual. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_S...:text=When asked what I'd,be the "real thing".)

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[SlyPokerDog]

U.S. Intelligence Shows China Taking a More Active Role in Iran War​

China may have shipped missiles to Iran, and Beijing is allowing some companies to sell Tehran supplies that can be used in military production, American officials said.

Article should be unlocked.

U.S. Intelligence Shows China Taking a More Active Role in Iran War

China may have shipped missiles to Iran, and Beijing is allowing some companies to sell Tehran supplies that can be used in military production, American officials said.

www.nytimes.com

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Again, these are hilariously good.

 

[ehizzy3]

Makes sense he said that as JD Vance, Kushner, and others are now leaving Pakistan without a deal.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Phatguysrule]

You said you're not qualified to speak for Palestinians — and I respect that humility. But let me ask you something.
Earlier in this thread, people had no problem saying what Israel wants: ethnic cleansing, Greater Israel, genocide, Zionist domination. Nobody stopped to say "I can't speak for Israelis."
You can tell me what America wants under its current leadership. I can tell you what Iran's regime wants. We can characterize entire governments and movements all day.
So I'm not asking you to be a Palestinian spokesperson. I'm asking what you know — the same way you know things about any other party in this conflict. What is the Palestinian political goal, as stated by their own leaders, their own charters, their own polls?
Not feelings. Not slogans. Just — what do they say they want?

The actions of the Israeli government are abhorrent. Inexcusable.

The current governing cabinet needs to be eliminated. Bibi and his cabinet need to be charged and punished as war criminals. As does Trump.

Nobody in this thread suggests that Israeli civilians should be hunted down or treated the way Israeli forces are treating innocent Palestinian civilians. Anybody who would support that kind of action is in the wrong.

 

[Phatguysrule]

 

[crandc]

The Iran nuclear deal did all the things Trump says now he wants and he tore it up out of hatred for Obama. The deal took two years to negotiate after nearly a decade of background work.
Trump send an inexperienced VP and two real estate guys and they give up after one day.