Politics War with Iran

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crandc said:
We are getting more information.

According to the New York Times, evidence for an attack on a US target was razor-thin. General Suleimani frequently made trips to review troops. He was called to Teheran to "discuss an operation". There appears to be no hard evidence that the operation involved an attack on the US.

There have been over 1500 American contractors killed in Iraq since the US invasion, including some during the Trump administration. There is no reason to single out this particular contractor for a war response, except when previous American contractors were killed on his watch Trump was not in the middle of impeachment proceedings.

The national security team offered a range of options. Killing Suleimani was presented as the way far out one that reportedly no one expected. (One reporter on AM Joy asked, why would you give that option to a known psychopath?) The military was reportedly flabbergasted when Trump chose the way far out option. In fact he said all of the above, which appealed to his pseudo-toughness and grandiosity, and relieved him of the necessity of reviewing options and making a considered choice of the best way forward, something beyond his mental capacity.

Trump has threatened to destroy 52 Iranian civilian targets, religious and cultural sites, if Iran retaliates. He picked the number for the US hostages taken in 1979. Iran is a young country. A large majority of Iranians were not born in 1979. But Trump is angry that no one got revenge for the embassy takeover. "Vengeance is mine, saith the Trump". He wants to be able to brag he did what no other president did. ISIS and Taliban also targeted religious and cultural sites. This is a war crime by international law, although it's doubtful Trump knows or cares about international law. He is not a student of history, so it's unknown how he picked the 52 sites. Perhaps someone on Fox or Breitbart?

While Congressional leaders and the intelligence and foreign relations committees were not briefed, those staying at Mar-a-Lago were, and Mike Pompeo said the Russian foreign minister was as well. Of course! Even Russia said the assassination was illegal.

The US in the 1980s shot down an Iraqi commercial aircraft, killing 180 civilians. Should Iraq threaten to destroy 180 cultural sites in the US?

Not surprising Maris said "real Americans" support the assassination since by his definition only Trump adorers are "real Americans".

Lou Dobbs said Trump is "god-like" and that no other mere mortal could do what he has. Reddit fan site calls Trump god-emperor. Seig Heil!

Lucia wants attention, I keep wrestling with her walking on the keyboard so hope I didn't forget anything.
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I think there's an error. The airplane shot down by a U.S. warship in the 80s was an Iranian aircraft and not an Iraqi aircraft.
 
crandc said:
We are getting more information.

According to the New York Times, evidence for an attack on a US target was razor-thin. General Suleimani frequently made trips to review troops. He was called to Teheran to "discuss an operation". There appears to be no hard evidence that the operation involved an attack on the US.

There have been over 1500 American contractors killed in Iraq since the US invasion, including some during the Trump administration. There is no reason to single out this particular contractor for a war response, except when previous American contractors were killed on his watch Trump was not in the middle of impeachment proceedings.

The national security team offered a range of options. Killing Suleimani was presented as the way far out one that reportedly no one expected. (One reporter on AM Joy asked, why would you give that option to a known psychopath?) The military was reportedly flabbergasted when Trump chose the way far out option. In fact he said all of the above, which appealed to his pseudo-toughness and grandiosity, and relieved him of the necessity of reviewing options and making a considered choice of the best way forward, something beyond his mental capacity.

Trump has threatened to destroy 52 Iranian civilian targets, religious and cultural sites, if Iran retaliates. He picked the number for the US hostages taken in 1979. Iran is a young country. A large majority of Iranians were not born in 1979. But Trump is angry that no one got revenge for the embassy takeover. "Vengeance is mine, saith the Trump". He wants to be able to brag he did what no other president did. ISIS and Taliban also targeted religious and cultural sites. This is a war crime by international law, although it's doubtful Trump knows or cares about international law. He is not a student of history, so it's unknown how he picked the 52 sites. Perhaps someone on Fox or Breitbart?

While Congressional leaders and the intelligence and foreign relations committees were not briefed, those staying at Mar-a-Lago were, and Mike Pompeo said the Russian foreign minister was as well. Of course! Even Russia said the assassination was illegal.

The US in the 1980s shot down an Iraqi commercial aircraft, killing 180 civilians. Should Iraq threaten to destroy 180 cultural sites in the US?

Not surprising Maris said "real Americans" support the assassination since by his definition only Trump adorers are "real Americans".

Lou Dobbs said Trump is "god-like" and that no other mere mortal could do what he has. Reddit fan site calls Trump god-emperor. Seig Heil!

Lucia wants attention, I keep wrestling with her walking on the keyboard so hope I didn't forget anything.
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I saw that Lou Dobbs thing...can't believe that his tongue did not explode as he spewed that drivel.
 
Hoopguru said:
“Whenever there is decisive action taken against the regime it sends an important signal to the people of Iran that the Iranian regime cannot carry out its atrocities within Iran or outside with impunity,” Safavi said. “And I think now it is time for the international community, especially the European Union, to end their policy of appeasement and recognize the right of Iranian people to resist and rise for freedom.

I stand with this guy! The Iranian people are protesting and demanding to be free from the bondage of the religious mullahs. I sincerely hope they can have a successful revolt against the tyranny of these religious radical islamist.
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I'm not sure this makes sense. Sure, it would be great if western-friendly Iranians overthrew their government.

But, suppose another country assassinated, for instance, our secretary of state? Would that make you more, or less likely, to want to vote the current government out of office?

Usually such things lead to making the government MORE popular. For example see Bush's popularity after 9/11.

What we've probably done is united Iranians behind their current government.

barfo
 
barfo said:
I'm not sure this makes sense. Sure, it would be great if western-friendly Iranians overthrew their government.

But, suppose another country assassinated, for instance, our secretary of state? Would that make you more, or less likely, to want to vote the current government out of office?

Usually such things lead to making the government MORE popular. For example see Bush's popularity after 9/11.

What we've probably done is united Iranians behind their current government.

barfo
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So you're saying that if we were to assassinate you everyone in the forum would stop arguing and unite?
 
SlyPokerDog said:
So you're saying that if we were to assassinate you everyone in the forum would stop arguing and unite?
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Yes, I believe that could be the kumbaya moment this forum so desperately needs.

barfo
 
barfo said:
I'm not sure this makes sense. Sure, it would be great if western-friendly Iranians overthrew their government.

But, suppose another country assassinated, for instance, our secretary of state? Would that make you more, or less likely, to want to vote the current government out of office?

Usually such things lead to making the government MORE popular. For example see Bush's popularity after 9/11.

What we've probably done is united Iranians behind their current government.

barfo
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The guy was no different than BinLaden or Bagdaddy
barfo said:
I'm not sure this makes sense. Sure, it would be great if western-friendly Iranians overthrew their government.

But, suppose another country assassinated, for instance, our secretary of state? Would that make you more, or less likely, to want to vote the current government out of office?

Usually such things lead to making the government MORE popular. For example see Bush's popularity after 9/11.

What we've probably done is united Iranians behind their current government.

barfo
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IMO, the guy was no different than BinLaden, only with a uniform on. He's been the engineer behind all the proxy terrorist groups for years, going all the way back to the marine barracks in Lebanon from what I understand.
If there was an immanent threat against our troops then I for one am glad he was taken out. I still think, lets get our guys out of region.
 
I wish we would pull all our troops out of the regions.
As Obama did effectively use drones or covert actions to get the bad guys that suppress the people.
These are different times and can require different strategies in dealing with terrorist.
I would guess many of the Iranian back terrorist militia leaders will be doing a lot of looking up the sky through-out out their days and nights.
 
Hoopguru said:
The guy was no different than BinLaden or Bagdaddy

IMO, the guy was no different than BinLaden, only with a uniform on. He's been the engineer behind all the proxy terrorist groups for years, going all the way back to the marine barracks in Lebanon from what I understand.
If there was an immanent threat against our troops then I for one am glad he was taken out. I still think, lets get our guys out of region.
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Sure, no question he was a bad guy. There is a question whether there was actually an imminent threat. We are sending more troops to the region as a result of this.

barfo
 
Lanny said:
The Washington Times, snicker. You know all the greatest sources.
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Childish snickering aside...
It's a matter of public record, a historical fact, reported back then by all of your favorite sources.
Tens of thousands killed without telling Congress in advance.
 
MARIS61 said:
This pretty much justifies any response we choose. It's an all out declaration of war.
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Thats not how that works. Trump made a declaration of war, and iran is going along with it.

For a guy who said he wanted to end endless wars, he sure likes to start them whenever he can.

Another lie. Were at like 200,000 lies i think.
 
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jonnyboy said:
Holy shit.
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Well duh....we shouldn't be there.

Now would be a good time to make a deal and get the fuck out. Trump could win a massive electoral college landslide if he does. If he gets us in a full blown war.....GONE.

I know it is hard considering how Iran threatens all of our military bases by keeping their stupid country right in the middle of them all.2x46rg6uid631.jpg
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
Now would be a good time to make a deal and get the fuck out. Trump could win a massive electoral college landslide if he does.
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I don't see how Trump can possibly make any sort of deal with Iran at this point. He broke the last deal we made with them, why should they trust him/us?

If he gets us in a full blown war.....GONE.
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Of course that's what should happen - but the opposite might.

barfo
 
barfo said:
I don't see how Trump can possibly make any sort of deal with Iran at this point. He broke the last deal we made with them, why should they trust him/us?



Of course that's what should happen - but the opposite might.

barfo
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He ain't winning if we have a real war with Iran.

I did read one guy's opinion in Bloomberg I think it was that said Iran didn't think Trump would do anything so they have been pushing us so we would lower sanctions.

Clearly Trump will do something so let's see if this changes things.

I'm not holding out hope but here is his chance.
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
He ain't winning if we have a real war with Iran.

I did read one guy's opinion in Bloomberg I think it was that said Iran didn't think Trump would do anything so they have been pushing us so we would lower sanctions.

Clearly Trump will do something so let's see if this changes things.

I'm not holding out hope but here is his chance.
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I don't see how Iran can not react to this. They risk losing control in their own country if they appear to be such pussies.

Trump will react to whatever Iran does, because he has only a lizard brain. So whatever they do, he'll escalate once again.

The only hope I see is that our intelligence is so good that we repeatedly block whatever they try to do, and thus prevent them from retaliating at all. And that's probably pretty unlikely given the vast number of ways/places/times they can retaliate.

barfo
 
barfo said:
I don't see how Iran can not react to this. They risk losing control in their own country if they appear to be such pussies.

Trump will react to whatever Iran does, because he has only a lizard brain. So whatever they do, he'll escalate once again.

The only hope I see is that our intelligence is so good that we repeatedly block whatever they try to do, and thus prevent them from retaliating at all. And that's probably pretty unlikely given the vast number of ways/places/times they can retaliate.

barfo
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We can't stop them from retaliating, no frigging way. We get mad that they are "terrorists" to us while we invade their region.

That is like Shaq getting mad if Danny Devito tried to kick him in the knee in a fight. What else could they do?

So they are going to do something somewhere and we'll see if Trump is really as dumb as you say.

Then again, maybe they will be smarter knowing what Trump is capable of.
 
Strenuus said:
Thats not how that works. Trump made a declaration of war, and iran is going along with it.

For a guy who said he wanted to end endless wars, he sure likes to start them whenever he can.

Another lie. Were at like 200,000 lies i think.
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I only count 2 lies in your post, but I will take your word for it if you say you have lied 200,000 times.
You could blame it on your TDS.
 
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