OT Was Robert E. Lee really all that evil?

[Orion Bailey]

When you look closely, you may see the switch has a operator.

Meh, not really. We are no more directly in control of "Coming to realization" than we are of being born with a defect. Yes there are mind excersizes and ways of educating the mind to improve the problem solving function but not everyones mind works the same. Emotions come into play, chemical imbalances, etc. It's not as easy to say you can turn it on and off.
Also, how you were brought up can cause delays in realizing the truth. Most bigotry and racism is inherited.

 

[MarAzul]

Most bigotry and racism is inherited.

I don't think so. I think most of us are taught by those that know the game well. It usually takes years to learn differently.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I don't think so. I think most of us are taught by those that know the game well. It usually takes years to learn differently.

And who do you think most of us learn our beliefs from? Our parents.. no? It usually takes years for the mind to break from the views of their parents and to think on its own.
I think it is the opposite of what you are saying.
I think it might even be proven through study that children inherently grow up believing and behaving much in the same manner as their parents and it could be well into the teens before their minds are grown enough to discern the potential unfairness their parents believe in.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Guessing you're not black.

Nope, stupid flag only hurts feelings. Stupid particulates emitted by stupid truck hurts everyone.

 

[Minstrel]

I thought this was a nice address by New Orleans mayor Mitch Landrieu regarding the removal of four Confederate monuments in New Orleans:

 

[MarAzul]

And who do you think most of us learn our beliefs from? Our parents.. no? It usually takes years for the mind to break from the views of their parents and to think on its own.
I think it is the opposite of what you are saying.
I think it might even be proven through study that children inherently grow up believing and behaving much in the same manner as their parents and it could be well into the teens before their minds are grown enough to discern the potential unfairness their parents believe in.

It might be silly for us to argue the point, coming from different times and circumstance. Perhaps we both are speaking the truth as we lived it. I don't think my parents knew any people of another race. Both were gone while I was young. The only people of another race I met before I entered the Navy were Native Americans of the Yakima tribe. That went quite well, even got to fish at Celilo falls. Of course they kept the fish.
The only Black people I saw were on TV, having a difficult time going to school in Little Rock. Big empathy for those guys, but never knew them for real.
The education starts when you meet for the first time. Sometimes it does not go well. I could elaborate but, I will spare everyone the details It went better years later when in a position of some power, then things may get better with some, other's not. It ain't easy when you are packing a load too heavy.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Denny Crane]

Talk about false equivalence.

 

[Minstrel]

University of Texas at Austin moving statues of four figures tied to Confederacy

A growing number of U.S. political leaders have called for the removal of statues honoring the Confederacy. Civil rights activists charge that they promote racism while advocates of the statues contend they are a reminder of their heritage.

The four statues which University of Texas at Austin is removing from its main mall include one of Robert E. Lee, who led the pro-slavery Confederacy's army during the Civil War, which ended in 1865.

The Lee statue will be moved to the school's Briscoe Center for American History, where it will be accessible for scholarly study, Fenves said.

Link

Statues don't have to be destroyed to be removed from areas meant to be enjoyed by everyone. And they won't all be destroyed--there will continue to be Confederate monuments available for people to see.

 

[Denny Crane]

Another act of cowardice.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...es-four-confederate-statues-overnight-n794411

Asked why the school decided to remove the statues during the overnight hours, university spokesman Gary Susswein said recent events played a factor.

"We've seen what happened elsewhere," Susswein said. "The timing was designed to ensure public safety and provide minimal disruption to campus."
​

They admit they were terrorized/intimidated into doing this.

 

[riverman]

Moving large heavy items in cities often is scheduled for night hours....no traffic problems and easier to block off areas.....they do the same thing when paving roads.....it's not because of some hiding, shameful emotions.....it's just smart use of the slowest time of day...actually very considerate of construction crews to do it this way.

 

[Denny Crane]

Moving large heavy items in cities often is scheduled for night hours....no traffic problems and easier to block off areas.....they do the same thing when paving roads.....it's not because of some hiding, shameful emotions.....it's just smart use of the slowest time of day...actually very considerate of construction crews to do it this way.

"We've seen what happened elsewhere," Susswein said.

 

[riverman]

Another act of cowardice.

I'm guessing you don't know anyone involved in this process....so I'm calling fake complaint from your post here. You could go strap yourself to a Confederate statue and protest it's removal but I'm guessing you might not be that brave yourself

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm guessing you don't know anyone involved in this process....so I'm calling fake complaint from your post here. You could go strap yourself to a Confederate statue and protest it's removal but I'm guessing you might not be that brave yourself

I'm "guessing" the quote from the person involved means what it says.

 

[riverman]

"We've seen what happened elsewhere," Susswein said.

Sure......not that I really put a lot of weight on whatever he said......don't see the problem here...seems you are building a liberal conspiracy theory though.

 

[riverman]

I'm "guessing" the quote from the person involved means what it says.

you follow Trump's twitter? guess again

 

[Denny Crane]

you follow Trump's twitter? guess again

I cited the person who chose to remove the statues in the middle of the night. Not sure what Trump has to do with it.

 

[riverman]

I'm "guessing" the quote from the person involved means what it says.

Kyrie Irving says the world is flat! I'm sure he means it

 

[riverman]

I cited the person who chose to remove the statues in the middle of the night. Not sure what Trump has to do with it.

you called him a coward...which in itself is cowardly given he's not here to defend himself

 

[Denny Crane]

you called him a coward...which in itself is cowardly given he's not here to defend himself

His words and deeds speak for themselves.

You can't apologize it away.

 

[riverman]

His words and deeds speak for themselves.

You can't apologize it away.

I'm not apologizing for his decisions....why would I? I understand the issue from their perspective....I'm sure you could purchase one of these statues and prop it up on your lawn if you really were concerned.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm not apologizing for his decisions....why would I? I understand the issue from their perspective....I'm sure you could purchase one of these statues and prop it up on your lawn if you really were concerned.

Your posts and actions indicate you are apologizing for him.

You suggested this is some sort of standard thing, to remove them in the middle of the night. Yet in his own words, he admits the decision was based upon fear of the violent left showing up and wreaking havoc on his campus.

 

[riverman]

Your posts and actions indicate you are apologizing for him.

nonsense....if you don't think someone is wrong, there's no need for apology....you are trying to make these folks part of your team rivalry.......that's how I see it..I'm coming off back to back graveyard shifts so my actions are confined to a cup of coffee and an easy chair this morning

 

[riverman]

decision was based upon fear of the violent left showing up and wreaking havoc on his campus.

you say fear....he says responsibility...I agree with him....the safety of his campus is his responsibility...as far as I know, the dude probably doesn't give a shit otherwise....I won't assume the worst which you tend to do...fear, cowardice, surrender...some of your favorite attack dogs.
You seem to think the violent left is alone in this....like there's no violent right involved in the issue.....again with the team sports fandom

 

[Denny Crane]

you say fear....he says responsibility...I agree with him....the safety of his campus is his responsibility...as far as I know, the dude probably doesn't give a shit otherwise....I won't assume the worst which you tend to do...fear, cowardice, surrender...some of your favorite attack dogs.

He admitted fear. There's no other way to read it. He assumes the worst from the violent left.

 

[MarAzul]

It is not the statues coming down that is troubling, it is the sneaky process being deployed by local officials, Democrats down the line. The sneaky process is nothing but no process

Some of the comments are interesting. One Black guy, said he resents the implication that he is too fragile now to handle presence of an old monument.

 

[riverman]

it is the sneaky process being deployed by local officials

It's not that sneaky Marz or we wouldn't know about it halfway across the country

 

[BlazerWookee]

Not a traitor, he swore an oath to Virginia long before he joined thw US Army.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Fi

And yet we still remember who he is.

For now, anyway...

 

[riverman]

Not a traitor, he swore an oath to Virginia long before he joined thw US Army.

he's not depicted wearing Union Army duds or Virginian militia duds...it's not the man, it what he represented at the time....what is happening is a backward trend in the deep south where schools are now starting to segregate again....just happened in Alabama...there is a movement toward white power that is based there....this is the underlying issue....not a slab of marble...a growing unrest and sentiment that longs for Jim Crow politics again. On the west coast we're insulated but the masses that protested there for the most part live there ....we've been through this before...it's truly sad to see it happening all over again....I don't want to go back to those days...