We need a Tristan Thompson

[Rastapopoulos]

The Cavs have caught a lot of shit for Tristan Thompson. First, for drafting him so high in the first place, and second, for throwing so much money at him to stay. But who's laughing now? Thompson does for the Cavs essentially what Bosh did for Miami (only without the jumpshots, but with better rebounding): he is a smallball center who can guard everybody. Yes, Draymond Green is supposedly the same thing for Golden State, but he's essentially a unicorn, whereas players like Thompson are, while invaluable to the team that has them, more available. Perhaps the archetype of the breed is Joakim Noah: a player who seem undersized at C but rebounds like a motherfucker and (and this is the important part) defend ANYBODY. Somebody pointed out that a huge amount of Steph Curry's struggles against the Cavs came because of Thompson's ability to stay with him on switches.

Is Ed Davis that for us? I don't know that he is yet, but if he could be, that would be awesome. Otherwise, we could stand to get more versatile defenders.

 

[Natebishop3]

I mean.... I think you also have to factor in that the Cavs were able to be WAY MORE physical with the Warriors than we were. It makes it immeasurably easier to defend a guard when the refs aren't calling you for the slightest contact on the perimeter.

 

[Mediocre Man]

The Cavs have caught a lot of shit for Tristan Thompson. First, for drafting him so high in the first place, and second, for throwing so much money at him to stay. But who's laughing now? Thompson does for the Cavs essentially what Bosh did for Miami (only without the jumpshots, but with better rebounding): he is a smallball center who can guard everybody. Yes, Draymond Green is supposedly the same thing for Golden State, but he's essentially a unicorn, whereas players like Thompson are, while invaluable to the team that has them, more available. Perhaps the archetype of the breed is Joakim Noah: a player who seem undersized at C but rebounds like a motherfucker and (and this is the important part) defend ANYBODY. Somebody pointed out that a huge amount of Steph Curry's struggles against the Cavs came because of Thompson's ability to stay with him on switches.

Is Ed Davis that for us? I don't know that he is yet, but if he could be, that would be awesome. Otherwise, we could stand to get more versatile defenders.

Ed Davis on a SF, much less a guard would not go well.

We need another Plastic Man

 

[Natebishop3]

Ed Davis on a SF, much less a guard would not go well.

We need another Plastic Man

I loved Augmon... I was thrilled when we traded for him. Such an underrated player.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Thompson is an overpaid Ed Davis.
Thompson is 2 years younger, and is stronger. Davis says he's putting on 20 lb. of muscle this offseason - we'll see.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I loved Augmon... I was thrilled when we traded for him. Such an underrated player.

If I were Neil, I'd focus on finding a couple of those type guys. Would do wonders for us if we make the playoffs again

 

[Natebishop3]

If I were Neil, I'd focus on finding a couple of those type guys. Would do wonders for us if we make the playoffs again

We need a third scorer. That supersedes any other needs at this point.

 

[Mediocre Man]

We need a third scorer. That supersedes any other needs at this point.

Completely agree. Dare I say 3rd star type scorer.

 

[BBert]

Completely agree. Dare I say 3rd star type scorer.

Would you put up with Greg Monroe's bad defense for his offense?

Or is he not enough/the right kind of a third scorer in your scenario?

 

[Natebishop3]

Completely agree. Dare I say 3rd star type scorer.

Yeah. Horford would be perfect.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Would you put up with Greg Monroe's bad defense for his offense?

God, no. Point me to a player like Monroe doing anything worthwhile in these playoffs. Nearest comp is Kanter, and OKC had to sit him, despite his excellent rebounding and offense because they couldn't afford a sieve on the floor. (Kevin Love sort of redeemed himself in game 7 but let's be honest: the series turned in Cleveland's favor the minute he had to sit out a game.)

Remember: one non-scorer does not destroy your entire offense. One non-defender DOES destroy your entire D.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

We need a third scorer. That supersedes any other needs at this point.

Who was the Cav's third scorer?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Thompson is an overpaid Ed Davis.
Thompson is 2 years younger, and is stronger. Davis says he's putting on 20 lb. of muscle this offseason - we'll see.

I think statements like that are just evidence of how undervalued defense is. That's also why people STILL deny Draymond Green top-tier league status. Thompson was certainly top 3 most valuable Cavs player and may even have equaled Kyrie in value. He was easily their second-best player last year when they took 2 from Golden State.

(And that's not to knock Ed. Here's hoping he can keep working on his game to become as valuable as Thompson. But he's nowhere near there yet.)

 

[Pinwheel1]

I mean.... I think you also have to factor in that the Cavs were able to be WAY MORE physical with the Warriors than we were. It makes it immeasurably easier to defend a guard when the refs aren't calling you for the slightest contact on the perimeter.

Honestly I really didn't care who won. I was pulling for GS, but not by much. But I was a little pissed when they called a foul on Steph for a hand check. Where was that call the rest of the series?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I mean.... I think you also have to factor in that the Cavs were able to be WAY MORE physical with the Warriors than we were. It makes it immeasurably easier to defend a guard when the refs aren't calling you for the slightest contact on the perimeter.

I know obsessing about the refs is "your thing" but maybe part of the reason the Cavs were ABLE to be more physical (if indeed they were) was because they actually PLAYED that way, and have big guys who can play physical defense without being clumsy about it (hello Plumlee).

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I was a little pissed when they called a foul on Steph for a hand check. Where was that call the rest of the series?

Did you throw your mouth guard at the TV?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I think statements like that are just evidence of how undervalued defense is. That's also why people STILL deny Draymond Green top-tier league status. Thompson was certainly top 3 most valuable Cavs player and may even have equaled Kyrie in value. He was easily their second-best player last year when they took 2 from Golden State.

(And that's not to knock Ed. Here's hoping he can keep working on his game to become as valuable as Thompson. But he's nowhere near there yet.)

Undervalued by Cleveland, too - he wasn't a starter all season.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Undervalued by Cleveland, too - he didn't start all season.

You mean like Finals MVP Andre Iguodala?

 

[Chris Craig]

Tristan Thompson would fit well at pf for us, he's young and has yet to reach his ceiling. I think being on the Cavs bench has stunted his growth as a player...that said he's too fucking expensive, and I'd rather have the proven skills of Al Horford

 

[Wizard Mentor]

You mean like Finals MVP Andre Iguodala?

I don't understand why people on these boards cite one or two examples from the history of the NBA and feel they've proved their point.

5'3" dudes can thrive in the NBA, because Mugsy Bogues. No, tiny dudes can't Bogues was an aberration.

Thompson averaged 27.7 mpg this season.

 

[tester551]

The Cavs have caught a lot of shit for Tristan Thompson. First, for drafting him so high in the first place, and second, for throwing so much money at him to stay. But who's laughing now? Thompson does for the Cavs essentially what Bosh did for Miami (only without the jumpshots, but with better rebounding): he is a smallball center who can guard everybody. Yes, Draymond Green is supposedly the same thing for Golden State, but he's essentially a unicorn, whereas players like Thompson are, while invaluable to the team that has them, more available. Perhaps the archetype of the breed is Joakim Noah: a player who seem undersized at C but rebounds like a motherfucker and (and this is the important part) defend ANYBODY. Somebody pointed out that a huge amount of Steph Curry's struggles against the Cavs came because of Thompson's ability to stay with him on switches.

Is Ed Davis that for us? I don't know that he is yet, but if he could be, that would be awesome. Otherwise, we could stand to get more versatile defenders.

We already have Thompson on our team.... His name is Noah Vonleh.

Stats are very similar for when they were both 20yr old. Very similar body types/styles too.

 

[BBert]

God, no. Point me to a player like Monroe doing anything worthwhile in these playoffs. Nearest comp is Kanter, and OKC had to sit him, despite his excellent rebounding and offense because they couldn't afford a sieve on the floor. (Kevin Love sort of redeemed himself in game 7 but let's be honest: the series turned in Cleveland's favor the minute he had to sit out a game.)

Remember: one non-scorer does not destroy your entire offense. One non-defender DOES destroy your entire D.

Good post.

And, since the Blazers already have a couple of key players who some would say tend to be non-defenders...how many can we really have on the floor at a time?

 

[Natebishop3]

Who was the Cav's third scorer?

Kevin Love?

 

[Natebishop3]

I know obsessing about the refs is "your thing" but maybe part of the reason the Cavs were ABLE to be more physical (if indeed they were) was because they actually PLAYED that way, and have big guys who can play physical defense without being clumsy about it (hello Plumlee).

We've all got a "thing." You obsess over international players. I get annoyed when the game isn't called fairly. To each their own.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

We already have Thompson on our team.... His name is Noah Vonleh.

Stats are very similar for when they were both 20yr old. Very similar body types/styles too.

Eh - I guess we can live in hope. But I don't really see the similarity: Thompson was already MUCH better at steals, blocks and ORBs. And Vonleh is a good deal less nimble than Thompson.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Do we? I think what we really need are some good too way players. Thompson looks great playing next to LeBron, but he's really more of a specialist who lacks an all around game. Take away LeBron and Thompson is pretty ordinary (as his career PER 15.3 indicates).

We already have a poor man's Tristan Thompson on a MUCH better contract in Ed Davis (something tells me Ed would look pretty damn good playing next to LeBron, too).

Rather than upgrade our role players, I'd like to see us get one, or two, two way players to upgrade our starting line up. We need a 3rd reliable scorer and a big man who can defend the pick and roll. Thompson gives us the latter, but someone like Al Horford gives us both.

BNM

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Do we? I think what we really need are some good too way players. Thompson looks great playing next to LeBron, but he's really more of a specialist who lacks an all around game. Take away LeBron and Thompson is pretty ordinary (as his career PER 15.3 indicates).

We already have a poor man's Tristan Thompson on a MUCH better contract in Ed Davis (something tells me Ed would look pretty damn good playing next to LeBron, too).

Rather than upgrade our role players, I'd like to see us get one, or two, two way players to upgrade our starting line up. We need a 3rd reliable scorer and a big man who can defend the pick and roll. Thompson gives us the latter, but someone like Al Horford gives us both.

BNM

Again, I think you're undervaluing defense. Thompson is an ELITE rebounder (in terms of % gathered) and basically does EVERYTHING except shoot jump shots. He's a better version of Hassan Whiteside because he's actually a better defender than he looks (rather than worse) and Whiteside is going to get a ridiculous contract. Why is he a "role player"? Is CJ a "role player"? Because he has more holes in his game than Thompson does.

Also, what's with this "3rd reliable scorer" business? If your first two options are struggling it's because the D is loading up on them. If that isn't giving one of the other three players open shots then you need a new coach more than anything else. The "3rd reliable scorer" is THE REST OF THE FUCKING TEAM.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Again, I think you're undervaluing defense. Thompson is an ELITE rebounder (in terms of % gathered) and basically does EVERYTHING except shoot jump shots. He's a better version of Hassan Whiteside because he's actually a better defender than he looks (rather than worse) and Whiteside is going to get a ridiculous contract. Why is he a "role player"? Is CJ a "role player"? Because he has more holes in his game than Thompson does.

Also, what's with this "3rd reliable scorer" business? If your first two options are struggling it's because the D is loading up on them. If that isn't giving one of the other three players open shots then you need a new coach more than anything else. The "3rd reliable scorer" is THE REST OF THE FUCKING TEAM.

He's not an elite rebounder. His career TRB% is 17.1. That's above average but not close to elite. You need to be up around TRB = 20 to be considered an elite rebounder. Hassan Whiteside has a career TRB% of 23.7. That's elite. Even Ed Davis is slightly better than TT for his career at TRB% = 17.3, but over the last two seasons, playing the most minutes of his NBA career, he's been at 20.0 and 18.7. That's much closer to elite rebounding that anything TT has done. And, Davis is here, wants to be here and is on a much cheaper contract.

There are multiple reason's we need a 3rd reliable scorer.

First, we need someone to pick up the slack on nights when one of Dame or C.J. are having a bad shooting night. That's not always the result of the other team playing great defense. We've all seen what a streaky shooter Dame can be (some would say feast or famine). When one of your top 2 is having an off night, a reliable 3rd scorer can keep you in the game.

Second, a reliable 3rd scorer would make it more difficult for teams to lock down Dame and C.J. It would change the way other teams game plan for us, especially in the playoffs. Without a reliable 3rd option, teams game plan to camp down on Dame and C.J. and hope nobody else beats them. Aminu comes up huge about once per series, but that's because other teams leave him wide fucking open. Having a reliable 3rd scorer makes it harder for teams to focus their game plan on just stopping Dame and C.J. That makes life easier for them and I'd rather have them have to work less hard for their shots than depend on Aminu to get hot and knock down some open shots once every 5 games.

Third, a reliable 3rd scorer is insurance against injury. Injuries are part of the game. They happen to all teams eventually. Having a proven 3rd scorer, who can step up and get you 20 points a night when needed is something every championship caliber teams needs. Without it and you lose one key player at the wrong time and your season is over. Having that 3rd scorer helps weather the injuries without sinking your season waiting for someone to get healthy.

So ideally, I'd prefer adding a player that gives us both improved defense and a reliable 3rd scorer. That's why I placed Horford, Butler and Millsap at the top of my list. They may cost more than TT, (who isn't even available, so I don't know why we're talking about him specifically), but they would give us more of what we need than he would. Whiteside is my 4th option because he would improve our defense and is an elite rebounder. Plus, he's more likely to be available than Tristan Thompson. Availability factors in at least as much as fit. Without it, my list would be LeBron James, Kevin Durant and Steph Curry.

BNM

 

[handiman]

The only thing that makes Thompson unreliable as a scorer is his FT shooting. He rarely takes a shot that isn't a dunk, and he's always aggressively crashing the glass, so he's actually quite reliable in the sense that you have to pay close attention to him at all times.

I never watched him play prior to LeBron returning to Cleveland and don't know if he's changed for the better as a result. I don't see how anyone can deny that he's currently an elite rebounder, though. He was so good last year, he made Draymond Groin look ordinary.

 

[Boob-No-More]

The only thing that makes Thompson unreliable as a scorer is his FT shooting. He rarely takes a shot that isn't a dunk, and he's always aggressively crashing the glass, so he's actually quite reliable in the sense that you have to pay close attention to him at all times.

You only need to pay close attention to him on defense when he's within 3 feet of the basket. His average FG distance is 2.4 feet. Nearly 70% of his FGA were within 3 feet of the basket, his FG% goes down to .413 once he's more than 3 feet from the basket. He doesn't even have a reliable 4 foot jump shot, let alone a midrange game.

I never watched him play prior to LeBron returning to Cleveland and don't know if he's changed for the better as a result. I don't see how anyone can deny that he's currently an elite rebounder, though. He was so good last year, he made Draymond Groin look ordinary.

Just going by the numbers, he's a good, but not elite rebounder. One playoff series, when the other team is missing their starting center, is not a reliable indication of elite status. He did most of his damage in the GSW series when Bogut was out (Bogut only played 60 minutes in the series). Sure he made Draymond Green look like an ordinary rebounder. He is. Green has a good all around game, but his 14.7 TRB% is pretty average, even slightly below average, for a starting PF. When the other team is missing their starting center and playing an average rebounding PF at center, you better dominate the boards.

Without Whiteside, Bismack Biyombo looked like the second coming of Bill Russell in that TOR/MIA series. Is he? Fuck no, but he's a better rebounder than Thompson.

BNM