Webs hate and love Outlaw?

[magnifier661]

Weird looking at the comparison of both players.

Webs
21.4 minutes, 37.3% from the field (YUCK), 33% from three (Double Yuck), 92% FT %, 2.5 rebounds, 1.27 steals, 0.64 blocks, 1 TO, 0.8 AST, 7.7 points.

vs.

Outlaw
21 minutes, 37.6% from the field (YUCK), 38.7% from three (Much better), 87.5% free-throws, 3.5 rebounds, 0.64 Steals, 0.73 blocks, 1.09 TO, 0.7 assists and 9.9 points.

Compare both of them. I think they are both playing like shit.

Problem is Outlaw took 101 shots for us and Webster took only 67. Basically Outlaw stunk it up 65% more than Webster.

So wouldn't it be fair to say that both Outlaw and Webster are playing at the same terrible level? Hate on Webs, might as well hate on Outlaw too. P.S. Outlaw has one more season than Webs, two if you discount Web's injury last season.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't think there's really much love for either player. Webster is essentially an after thought, while Outlaw gets a lot of love and hate from the fans. Plus, we already vented our frustrations towards Webster, and honestly, I really don't like to think about how we have Martell instead of Chris Paul or Deron Williams.

 

[andalusian]

Apparently, Outlaw was complaining about being hurt before the Memphis game. At that point, he had a PER of 20. Currently, after 2 games (and 50 seconds) playing on the same hurt leg his PER is at 15.2 - compared to Webster's 13.9

So, it is as always - Outlaw is a better offensive player, Webster is a slightly better defensive player.

 

[hasoos]

In general I have found that players who are total projects (no upside besides being young and athletic) are a waste of time for the most part. Guys have to show some ability to play basketball from the start to have a chance in this league. The problem is, the exceptions to the rule, make almost everybody looking for those guys who can become the next "Shawn Kemp". (even Kemp could ball some when he came into the league) Its just like the folks looking for the next Dirk Nowitzki out of Europe. They draft 10 6'11" white guys from europe over a decade just looking for the next one, when there isn't one.

 

[illmatic99]

What Webs love?

The only guys on this roster I have a bias towards are Batum, Rudy, and Oden.

 

[magnifier661]

In general I have found that players who are total projects (no upside besides being young and athletic) are a waste of time for the most part. Guys have to show some ability to play basketball from the start to have a chance in this league. The problem is, the exceptions to the rule, make almost everybody looking for those guys who can become the next "Shawn Kemp". (even Kemp could ball some when he came into the league) Its just like the folks looking for the next Dirk Nowitzki out of Europe. They draft 10 6'11" white guys from europe over a decade just looking for the next one, when there isn't one.

Exactly. Instead of grabbing projects, find players that have already proven to have nice production in the game. Nothing too stellar that demands high salary, but enough to make a difference on the floor.

Examples: Getting a old Greg Anthony, that already proved he was a great defensive PG, with a sub par shot. You already saw him play like 10 seasons, before you bring him to Portland.

Building a dynasty is a good mixture of solid vet role players and studs (Roy, Aldridge and Oden). If you have too many youngsters on your team, the decision making on the court and teaching new plays are so much harder to implement.

 

[hasoos]

Exactly. Instead of grabbing projects, find players that have already proven to have nice production in the game. Nothing too stellar that demands high salary, but enough to make a difference on the floor.

Examples: Getting a old Greg Anthony, that already proved he was a great defensive PG, with a sub par shot. You already saw him play like 10 seasons, before you bring him to Portland.

Building a dynasty is a good mixture of solid vet role players and studs (Roy, Aldridge and Oden). If you have too many youngsters on your team, the decision making on the court and teaching new plays are so much harder to implement.

Yep I totally agree. Every year I watch as free agent SF types float through the league, and so many of them that are free agents, and available for cheap, are better than every SF we have on the team that gets playing time currently. I honestly can't believe right now that we stuck with Travis Outlaw until his 6th season before he for him to become a below average player. Webs has some forgiveness because of his injury, but for a guy who is supposedly a sweet shooter, he clanks a hell of a lot of shots for a guy who is supposedly a great shooter. The facts are, there is no excuse for not getting it done. Open jumpers are open jumpers. Nut up and hit your shots.

 

[STOMP]

you can count the number of posters who love Outlaw on a couple fingers. Webster lovers easily number in double digits.

you've got the question backwards.

Compare both of them. I think they are both playing like shit.

I think both are a mixed bag of meh...

STOMP

 

[magnifier661]

Yep I totally agree. Every year I watch as free agent SF types float through the league, and so many of them that are free agents, and available for cheap, are better than every SF we have on the team that gets playing time currently. I honestly can't believe right now that we stuck with Travis Outlaw until his 6th season before he for him to become a below average player. Webs has some forgiveness because of his injury, but for a guy who is supposedly a sweet shooter, he clanks a hell of a lot of shots for a guy who is supposedly a great shooter. The facts are, there is no excuse for not getting it done. Open jumpers are open jumpers. Nut up and hit your shots.

I have a lot of love for Webs. Most of it has more to do with his history, the murder of his mother that got me attached to him. But in all honesty, he doesn't get a pass, just like Outlaw. The one thing Outlaw has, which is easier to swallow was he was selected in the 20's, while Webs was actually #4 (Portland got the worst possible draft order).

Anyways, nothing against either one of them. What we need is a nice vet SF. PG is the play maker and the SF is the secondary playmaker on most offensive teams. That's why I was more open to having Roy play the 3, since both him and Miller can handle the majority of the play making.

I would love to see a nice deal sending Outlaw and Webs, along with Blake for a solid veteran SF. Gives room for Batum when he comes back from surgery, plus it gives more playing time for Bayless as well. Problem with a deal like that is until Batum comes back, we will be extremely thin at SF.

 

[Buzz Killington]

Outlaw takes way more bad shots out of the offense, but he miraculously hits them.

 

[STOMP]

I have a lot of love for Webs. Most of it has more to do with his history, the murder of his mother that got me attached to him. But in all honesty, he doesn't get a pass, just like Outlaw. The one thing Outlaw has, which is easier to swallow was he was selected in the 20's, while Webs was actually #4 (Portland got the worst possible draft order).

I rarely think about where guys were drafted while I'm watching them play... I doubt it factors 1% in what I think of their game. Same goes with personal history.

Anyways, nothing against either one of them. What we need is...

a healthy Batum. In the meantime lets cross our fingers that we might like the firesale deals that probably happen this season.

STOMP

 

[hasoos]

Outlaw takes way more bad shots out of the offense, but he miraculously hits them.

He hits some of them. See that is what I figured out why people love Outlaw. He hits tough shots. But the unfortunate fact is, he makes almost all of his shots tough and or tougher than they need to be. So when he hits one, it sticks in fans minds. Never mind the fact he is passing up wide open shots to take a jab step fade away jumper. Never mind the fact that he is passing up wide open layins for a pull up jumper. He makes the game harder, and there is no fathonable reason why he does it. But it sure sticks in the fans minds, doesn't it?

 

[BBert]

You know how so many fans just love the new young players who are all potential? I think there is some of that at play here. Travis is pretty much an open book. He's arrived. He is what he is, and that is a bit of a disappointment overall. I think there is still the feeling that Martell is still a work in progress. He's still improving (but I think he's just about where he's going to be). Also, the ceiling for Martell has been reduced to backup SF. Hard to disappoint when expectations are low. Plus people see Martell hustling around the court, flying to the basket, laying his body out, and taking shots within the offense. Nobody likes playing ball with a black hole like Travis, even if he does heat up sometimes.

 

[hasoos]

You know how so many fans just love the new young players who are all potential? I think there is some of that at play here. Travis is pretty much an open book. He's arrived. He is what he is, and that is a bit of a disappointment overall. I think there is still the feeling that Martell is still a work in progress. He's still improving (but I think he's just about where he's going to be). Also, the ceiling for Martell has been reduced to backup SF. Hard to disappoint when expectations are low. Plus people see Martell hustling around the court, flying to the basket, laying his body out, and taking shots within the offense. Nobody likes playing ball with a black hole like Travis, even if he does heat up sometimes.

The funny thing is, all Martell really needs to do in order to be decent is to hit his shots. He plays defense. He rebounds. He isn't much for driving to the hoop. But if he would just hit his open jumpers when available, everybody would be happy for the most part. Bruce Bowen averaged about 8 to 10 points a game for his whole career. But he hit his shots (the few he got) at a very high clip.

 

[Buzz Killington]

I think Martell would be good in a defensive SF who can hit the 3 type roll...maybe like a bruce bowen / james posey type.

 

[andalusian]

I think Martell would be good in a defensive SF who can hit the 3 type roll...maybe like a bruce bowen / james posey type.

Last year, With Bowen really old and slow - he had a higher defensive win-score than Webster ever had in the league and about a 3rd of what he had in his prime.

Martell has a long long way to go to be mentioned in the same sentence as Bowen when it comes to defensive ability. Posey, in his better years was twice as good as Webster's best year.

So again, we are all happy to see that Webster is playing hard and trying on defense - but a defensive stopper he is not.

 

[Buzz Killington]

Last year, With Bowen really old and slow - he had a higher defensive win-score than Webster ever had in the league and about a 3rd of what he had in his prime.

Martell has a long long way to go to be mentioned in the same sentence as Bowen when it comes to defensive ability. Posey, in his better years was twice as good as Webster's best year.

So again, we are all happy to see that Webster is playing hard and trying on defense - but a defensive stopper he is not.

doesn't he lead the lead in blocks or steals at his position or something? I thought I heard someone mention that on TV.

I'm not saying that Martell = Bowen, but if he can develop into that type of player, it would be good.

 

[LittleAlex]

All Martell has ever needed to do was knock down open shots consistently.

For four years now that has been the case.

There is something off about his shot. The problem is it looks good so finding the flaw will be much harder.

But his shooting percentage is just sub par for a supposed shooter.

Blake shoots better and his jump shot looks like a shotput throw.

 

[hasoos]

All Martell has ever needed to do was knock down open shots consistently.

For four years now that has been the case.

There is something off about his shot. The problem is it looks good so finding the flaw will be much harder.

But his shooting percentage is just sub par for a supposed shooter.

Blake shoots better and his jump shot looks like a shotput throw.

There is something to be said for guys who can just flat out put the ball in the hole. I watch guys like Anderson in Orlando come in, and he is hitting the 3 at near a 45% clip. Same with Chase Bundinger. These are all guys who went later on in the draft. Guys are coming into the league every year who are better than our small forwards, but every year we are left waiting for the upside to ever come around. Quentin Richardson signed on with Miami, lost a ton of weight, and now is shooting the lights out from 3 point land. This is the type of stuff missed out on every year by Portland.

 

[Buzz Killington]

MAYBE WE SHOULD GET JJ REDDICK.

 

[fumanchu]

The difference behind the stats is that Outlaw can create his own shot and he's clutch. Webster not so much. Defensively they're pretty much equal.

Travis' abilities come in handy when the team goes into a funk. Travis usually is the guy that steps up.

 

[MrSelfDestruct]

The difference behind the stats is that Outlaw can create his own shot and he's clutch. Webster not so much. Defensively they're pretty much equal.

Travis' abilities come in handy when the team goes into a funk. Travis usually is the guy that steps up.

I don't think this could be more wrong, and I'm not even a Webster fan.

 

[STOMP]

I don't think this could be more wrong, and I'm not even a Webster fan.

for their careers, whats their respective shotblocking and steals rates? or are those categories only relevant to D when talking about this season?

STOMP

 

[MrSelfDestruct]

for their careers, whats their respective shotblocking and steals rates? or are those categories only relevant to D when talking about this season?

STOMP

I know Outlaw's Block and steal rates are better than Webster. I was thinking along the lines of simpler things, e.g. rotations, keeping their player in front of them, etc.

 

[STOMP]

I know Outlaw's Block and steal rates are better than Webster. I was thinking along the lines of simpler things, e.g. rotations, keeping their player in front of them, etc.

others have been trumpeting Martell's impressive Blk/Stl numbers this year as proof of his superior D. I don't think that was yo, but I was just using your post to address this. Personally I don't think those stats directly equate to that conclusion.

I don't think much of either of their defensive games... they both do stupid things and their man tends to score a lot

STOMP

 

[Minstrel]

"Outlaw love" is not exactly how I'd characterize this forum. He's probably the most-criticized player.