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I think they see it but there no hurry about rushing a 19 year old into the fire. Plus we are not seeing practice either. Then Stotts know what he got in his veterans and think that where he leading to. But my opinion he is two way player with great instincts on defense and he looks like he getting confidence on his shot. Me I think he better then Davis and I would have him backing up Nurk. I also believe he will be our starting 4 by next year.
 
Just a little something;

College, per 40 mins:

Zach Collins: 23.2 pts, 13.6 rbs, 4.1 blks
Anthony Davis: 17.7 pts, 13.0 rbs, 5.8 blks
Towns: 19.5 pts, 12.7 rbs, 4.3 blks

Now of course there's a difference in conferences but you get the general idea. Collins is a unicorn, much like Towns and Davis. Guys that size shouldn't move the way they do. I remember Anthony Davis had the same concerns as Collins regarding play strength. He was even skinnier than Zach. Now he probably weighs 250. Their physical frames are similar. No reason why Zach couldn't end up around the same size.

I don't think he'll be the scorer KAT or Davis are, but I also think he's the best shooter of the three. Defensively he'll be better than KAT. I was a fan of Collins before the draft but even I laughed a little when Olshey labeled him a franchise type player. Now, I see why. Can't wait to watch his development. He's the complete package.

In my opinion of course.

Oh and he should be playing over Biggie. Love Biggie, but he's not on Collins' level.
 
Scalma said:
Just a little something;

College, per 40 mins:

Zach Collins: 23.2 pts, 13.6 rbs, 4.1 blks
Anthony Davis: 17.7 pts, 13.0 rbs, 5.8 blks
Towns: 19.5 pts, 12.7 rbs, 4.3 blks

Now of course there's a difference in conferences but you get the general idea. Collins is a unicorn, much like Towns and Davis. Guys that size shouldn't move the way they do. I remember Anthony Davis had the same concerns as Collins regarding play strength. He was even skinnier than Zach. Now he probably weighs 250. Their physical frames are similar. No reason why Zach couldn't end up around the same size.

I don't think he'll be the scorer KAT or Davis are, but I also think he's the best shooter of the three. Defensively he'll be better than KAT. I was a fan of Collins before the draft but even I laughed a little when Olshey labeled him a franchise type player. Now, I see why. Can't wait to watch his development. He's the complete package.

In my opinion of course.

Oh and he should be playing over Biggie. Love Biggie, but he's not on Collins' level.
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I really hate to say this, because I almost always stay away from this topic, but methinks the perception of Collins might be a little bit different if he was either African American or European. I always try to judge a player based on the merits of their actual game, but I even catch myself thinking that way sometimes. I don't know why, and wish that the bias wasn't there at all. But, I do tend to distrust white American prospects in the draft. Like I said, I try to view a player's game without that bias, but it creeps in sometimes.

Here is a really simple question: Do you think there would be more buzz and hype around Collins if he was black or European? This is aimed at all of the board and not just you. I just think it is an interesting thought experiment.

I honestly don't have those doubts anymore, as I like a lot of the things I've seen from the guy.
 
theprunetang said:
I really hate to say this, because I almost always stay away from this topic, but methinks the perception of Collins might be a little bit different if he was either African American or European. I always try to judge a player based on the merits of their actual game, but I even catch myself thinking that way sometimes. I don't know why, and wish that the bias wasn't there at all. But, I do tend to distrust white American prospects in the draft. Like I said, I try to view a player's game without that bias, but it creeps in sometimes.

Here is a really simple question: Do you think there would be more buzz and hype around Collins if he was black or European? This is aimed at all of the board and not just you. I just think it is an interesting thought experiment.

I honestly don't have those doubts anymore, as I like a lot of the things I've seen from the guy.
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Naw you're not wrong. If he were European or African American he would've had more hype. Just facts lol don't have any real explanation.
 
It's kinda like this; if a director makes ten shitty movies in a row, the eleventh may be a masterpiece, the doubt would still be there to actually go watch it.

There really haven't been that many great white American born bigs. The skepticism is somewhat justified. I didn't even want to like Collins when I first watched him for that same reason. But he's different. Not only his athleticism, but the way he carries himself. He's not scared, he just plays.
 
Scalma said:
It's kinda like this; if a director makes ten shitty movies in a row, the eleventh may be a masterpiece, the doubt would still be there to actually go watch it.

There really haven't been that many great white American born bigs. The skepticism is somewhat justified. I didn't even want to like Collins when I first watched him for that same reason. But he's different. Not only his athleticism, but the way he carries himself. He's not scared, he just plays.
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Good take. It's not even relegated to just "bigs". There are just a lot of shitty to alright white dudes.
 
theprunetang said:
Good take. It's not even relegated to just "bigs". There are just a lot of shitty to alright white dudes.
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And most of them play timid. Call it a stereotype or whatever, but it's true. Meyers isn't the only white American that plays intimidated. Guys like Larry Bird are the exception. Steve Blake is another that had the attitude, but not so much the skill. Collins has both.
 
theprunetang said:
Good take. It's not even relegated to just "bigs". There are just a lot of shitty to alright white dudes.
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I'm trying to think of the last great American white player. I guess Steve Nash, as Canada is an American country. Prior to him I'm only coming up with Chris Mullin before reaching back to the Stockton/Bird era. I'm chalking it up to not being done with my coffee yet, but I can't think of any others ATM but there must be some I'm forgetting between Mullin and Nash. And maybe even post-Nash? Maybe?
 
blue9 said:
I'm trying to think of the last great American white player. I guess Steve Nash, as Canada is an American country. Prior to him I'm only coming up with Chris Mullin before reaching back to the Stockton/Bird era. I'm chalking it up to not being done with my coffee yet, but I can't think of any others ATM but there must be some I'm forgetting between Mullin and Nash. And maybe even post-Nash? Maybe?
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Don't forget KEITH VAN HORN! He got one rookie of the year vote! (Tim Duncan got the others.)
 
I think it has more to do with the fact he didn’t start on his own team, Gonzaga, which isn’t cranking out NBA all stars exactly.

I think it is then aided by the fact that non-white players are seen as having a higher ceiling as you noted. Luke Kennard is a great example of this also, IMO.
 
On a more serious note: Minnesota Kevin Love? Half of Jason Kidd, Blake Griffin, et al.?
 
Destroyer of Worlds said:
I think it has more to do with the fact he didn’t start on his own team, Gonzaga, which isn’t cranking out NBA all stars exactly.

I think it is then aided by the fact that non-white players are seen as having a higher ceiling as you noted. Luke Kennard is a great example of this also, IMO.
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"Higher Ceiling" = code for "White Men Can't Jump".

A black guy I play pickup with regularly insists that white guys just age much faster. So even if they're good in their rookie years, they'll go downhill fast. Again, Steve Nash appears to be a counter-example. But then again, he is really African (check his birth certificate).
 
I think Collins would be getting more hype if he would been drafted by bad team. Towns and Davis was drafted by 2 teams that wasnt very good at the time they were drafted so they got thrown in the fire at the start. Collins have a chance with the Blazers to come on more slowly and be able to learn the NBA due to veterans ahead of him. If he got drafted by bad team he would being playing a lot this year.
 
Trackjack said:
I think Collins would be getting more hype if he would been drafted by bad team. Towns and Davis was drafted by 2 teams that wasnt very good at the time they were drafted so they got thrown in the fire at the start. Collins have a chance with the Blazers to come on more slowly and be able to learn the NBA due to veterans ahead of him. If he got drafted by bad team he would being playing a lot this year.
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Collins doesn't deserve hype. Let him earn it. Better to surprise than to disappoint.
 
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