Funny We’re a Silly People

[Minstrel]

At some point, at least I hope, there will be some new blood that can start working together again. Right? Right? If not, we're doomed to becoming a declining society in my estimation.

I mean, I think there will be new blood, but I don't think there's any magic leadersauce that punctures the entrenched logic of partisanship. Leadership is very based on perception and right now, I don't think one party's voters are going to see true leadership in anyone put forth by the other side because they're already hostile to anyone who might emerge. I think we're long past the era of broadly popular (in a lasting way) Presidents like FDR or Eisenhower. So I don't think "working together" is going to become a possibility until someone comes up with a clever fix to the political incentives and pushes it through. As I said before, I don't know what that fix might be.

 

[riverman]

People afraid of the cost of infrastructure upgrading sort of ignore how many jobs are created by the work and how that money trickles into the areas where the work is being done....we have a huge economic opportunity to hire demolition crews and engineers and construction firms to revamp our infrastructure....power grid should absolutely come first.....travel right now is in a slump from covid....that will never be the priority....would be nice to have an efficient electrical power grid that works even in stormy weather

 

[riverman]

I went to Oregon, love Florence, love Bend. My OPINION on high speed rail between those areas has nothing to do with that.

I pointed out the LA to Vegas because that would be a very popular and inexpensive route relatively speaking. We're talking tracks in a desert, not through mountain ranges.

The economics of scale on a project like this is insane, and there will most likely be other options that would be far cheaper to aid these communities.

By the time a project like high speed rail from Bend to Florence even gets through planning, environmental assessment, and funding it's going to be 10 years from now. Then add another 10 years to build a project like that. That's 20 years to complete.

If high speed rail from LA to Vegas is a $60 billion project what would your line be, $100 billion? $200 billion? What will it end up being at time of completion in 20years, $500 billion?

We are 5-7 years from self driving luxury electric motor coaches. You could provide free rides for life leaving every hour for a fraction of what it would take to put high speed rail in. That makes sense, that helps those communities.

even driverless cars need sinkholes fixed in the roads....even electric cars need good roads...that doesn't change. Money is generated by the work itself in the form of paychecks...the easiest thing to do is nothing....which is in full swing already

 

[andalusian]

power grid should absolutely come first..... <snip> would be nice to have an efficient electrical power grid that works even in stormy weather

The current electrical grid already works in stormy weather - if you are not Texas and are willing to participate in energy exchange. As far as efficient - it is a lot more efficient than it ever was - but there is still a lot to be done going forward.

Resiliency is certainly an important aspect of the grid - and I know that there are a lot of projects currently dealing with it - I am sure that a lot more will start after the Texas disaster.

I still think that the most reasonable thing to do now is transportation related - both from roads, bridges and electric refilling infrastracture - and specifically EV conversion of the fleet. Transportation is crucial to the economy even during Covid - you just replace individual travel with goods travel which has not stopped - probably increased. The other thing is that converting the fleet to EV also supports climate change objectives - so it is a win-win to start attacking the infrastructure on this angle.

 

[riverman]

The current electrical grid already works in stormy weather - if you are not Texas and are willing to participate in energy exchange. As far as efficient - it is a lot more efficient than it ever was - but there is still a lot to be done going forward.

Resiliency is certainly an important aspect of the grid - and I know that there are a lot of projects currently dealing with it - I am sure that a lot more will start after the Texas disaster.

I still think that the most reasonable thing to do now is transportation related - both from roads, bridges and electric refilling infrastracture - and specifically EV conversion of the fleet. Transportation is crucial to the economy even during Covid - you just replace individual travel with goods travel which has not stopped - probably increased. The other thing is that converting the fleet to EV also supports climate change objectives - so it is a win-win to start attacking the infrastructure on this angle.

I understand Texas problem but we still are using creosote power lines above ground....trees fall....power fails....hot summer air conditioners crank up...transformers blow...at this point our power grid should not leave people in sub zero temps without heat or running water in December in my view...must be horrible to have that happen in a place like New York City or Minneapolis in the dead of winter. Now the alternative is to buy ...yes.....a fuel powered generator!

 

[andalusian]

I understand Texas problem but we still are using creosote power lines above ground....trees fall....power fails....hot summer air conditioners crank up...transformers blow...at this point our power grid should not leave people in sub zero temps without heat or running water in December in my view...must be horrible to have that happen in a place like New York City or Minneapolis in the dead of winter. Now the alternative is to buy ...yes.....a fuel powered generator!

... the fact that it does not really happen in Minneapolis or NYC much - is proof that the grid is already resilient. It can be a lot more so - I know it (my wife works in the industry) - but the US grid is nowhere near as bad as some are calling it - and failures are going to happen - the goal is to make the grid recovers quickly via either long distance transmissions or backup facilities - and in most cases, it does.

You will also see a lot of micro-grids with renewable sources and battery backup as additional resiliency backups all over - I know quite a lot of people that are working very hard on innovations in this area.

Let's face it - extreme weather or safety conditions can and will cause interruptions - simply designing a totally never off grid is frankly, unrealistic - it would cost too much - but there are ways to mitigate these issues.

 

[riverman]

... the fact that it does not really happen in Minneapolis or NYC much - is proof that the grid is already resilient. It can be a lot more so - I know it (my wife works in the industry) - but the US grid is nowhere near as bad as some are calling it - and failures are going to happen - the goal is to make the grid recovers quickly via either long distance transmissions or backup facilities - and in most cases, it does.

You will also see a lot of micro-grids with renewable sources and battery backup as additional resiliency backups all over - I know quite a lot of people that are working very hard on innovations in this area.

Let's face it - extreme weather or safety conditions can and will cause interruptions - simply designing a totally never off grid is frankly, unrealistic - it would cost too much - but there are ways to mitigate these issues.

I can only speak for Lane county and every winter for over 21 years we've experienced multiple blackouts...mostly from trees and branches, some from transformers....my son has installed power lines all his life in California....he doesn't understand why one power pole is above ground and believes cables should all be buried... .....this winter we had 3 power outages...last winter, about the same....I'm glad people are working hard on these things...I own half a solar panel on the Lane electric grid...bought it years ago but honestly....it has yet to pay for itself through my power bill saving of a couple of dollars a month. Will take about 2 thousand months to break even on the investment so far...to me wooden poles painted in creosote in fire country holding up power lines is an accident waiting to happen....and earth is grounded. That's where I'd start....and installing transformers that can handle a city on 100degree day with all the air conditioners blasting should be obtainable...every time the power company says the transformers were overloaded....so make tranformers that won't overload or add more would be my thought

 

[Hoopguru]

Today I got a promo from Alaska Air you can fly to San Diego, Minneapolis, Phoenix, for $69, other closer cities $59.
Now thats the way to travel if your are in a hurry. Ive got over a million air miles but have never taken the train anywhere.
My son used to take Amtrak to and from UofO which was reasonable.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Today I got a promo from Alaska Air you can fly to San Diego, Minneapolis, Phoenix, for $69, other closer cities $59.
Now thats the way to travel if your are in a hurry. Ive got over a million air miles but have never taken the train anywhere.
My son used to take Amtrak to and from UofO which was reasonable.

In the Oregon Room of the old library there used to be a topographical model of the U of Oregon campus from the 1920s or 30s. The train depot they had on campus was gorgeous.

 

[riverman]

Today I got a promo from Alaska Air you can fly to San Diego, Minneapolis, Phoenix, for $69, other closer cities $59.
Now thats the way to travel if your are in a hurry. Ive got over a million air miles but have never taken the train anywhere.
My son used to take Amtrak to and from UofO which was reasonable.

I've taken Amtrak to San Diego twice and once to San Luis Obispo....the train was pretty full...lots of folks use that line. I flew to San Diego about 15 years ago and it was insanely expensive...that's a cheap airfare! The trick with the train is to break the trip into little stop overs....really makes a nice trip of it.

 

[stampedehero]

The Chinese progressive dictatorship with infrastructure and military plans proves they can accomplish anything. They will be the dominant nation in less than a decade. We stick our nose in the affairs of other countries and they infiltrate political systems. We blow wind and smoke and they get down to work without red tape and political road blocks. Without crusading environmentalists and litigation attorneys, they are able to connect the dots and always accomplish their goals

 

[riverman]

In the Oregon Room of the old library there used to be a topographical model of the U of Oregon campus from the 1920s or 30s. The train depot they had on campus was gorgeous.

That train used to go right through the Veneta Noti route and take passengers I believe all the way to Coos Bay from Eugene....at least as far as Siuslaw....I've seen pictures of those lines ..the back road behind my property follows those lines to the mill in Noti

 

[andalusian]

I can only speak for Lane county and every winter for over 21 years we've experienced multiple blackouts...mostly from trees and branches, some from transformers....

The interesting part is - how long did it take for the blackouts to be resolved and when it took longer - was it because of time getting service crews?

The Texas issue was a real indication of the grid now be resilient. Having down-town because of weather events is to be expected.

my son has installed power lines all his life in California....he doesn't understand why one power pole is above ground and believes cables should all be buried...

Again, there are advantages and disadvantages for both. Underground cables are more resilient but more expensive to put and repair. We bought our house in 2014 - it is an old house with a separate garage. The house is on a hill and has over-ground electrical connection, or so we thought. The first year we were in - we had issues when the fuses would blow every once in a while - for no apparent reason. The main switchboard is old - so we dismantled it (at a pretty hefty price) yet the problem persisted.

After a lot of investigations - we found out that the power from the house to the stand-alone garage was buried in an old metal pipe and some of the electrical insulation deteriorated and had sparks that would cause these fuses to blow out. We had to rip apart the asphalt between the house and the garage, trench and put a new plastic pipe with new cable - as you can imagine, it was a small problem that was very expensive to fix.

Now, this is a short-distance wire - for long transmissions - underground cable is just not realistic - it is too expensive.

...to me wooden poles painted in creosote in fire country holding up power lines is an accident waiting to happen....and earth is grounded.

Sure, we have some old wooden poles in the neighborhood and they are slowly replacing them with metal ones. I bet it is going to be a lot cheaper to solve this problem than bury everything. In the meanwhile, we have to hear the woodpeckers look for termites in these poles...

That's where I'd start....and installing transformers that can handle a city on 100degree day with all the air conditioners blasting should be obtainable...every time the power company says the transformers were overloaded....so make tranformers that won't overload or add more would be my thought

Upgrading the infrastructure is obvious - a lot of it is just old technology that has a shelf life - combined with newer technology - I agree - a lot of this infrastructure needs to be updated.

 

[Strenuus]

Riverman is right.

Train is the best way to do it if you have the time. I've talked about my cross country trip in 2018. Made stops in Chicago for 12 hours (toured Wrigley field, had the best slice of pizza in my life there), stayed a week in Michigan (west side, grand rapids up to traverse city and up into the upper peninsula, as well as Mackinac Island. THATS A MUST VISIT PLACE). then over to NYC for a week as well and the numerous activities there. On the way back I just sat on a train for 4 days, had an amazing conversation with a former NYPD officer before he got off in Pennsylvania. Saw the beauty that is Montana.

If you ever EVER get the time to do a cross country trip on train, do it and never look back. You won't regret it. I still look back so fondly on all those memories.

 

[riverman]

Riverman is right.

Train is the best way to do it if you have the time. I've talked about my cross country trip in 2018. Made stops in Chicago for 12 hours (toured Wrigley field, had the best slice of pizza in my life there), stayed a week in Michigan (west side, grand rapids up to traverse city and up into the upper peninsula, as well as Mackinac Island. THATS A MUST VISIT PLACE). then over to NYC for a week as well and the numerous activities there. On the way back I just sat on a train for 4 days, had an amazing conversation with a former NYPD officer before he got off in Pennsylvania. Saw the beauty that is Montana.

If you ever EVER get the time to do a cross country trip on train, do it and never look back. You won't regret it. I still look back so fondly on all those memories.

The railroads own the most beautiful country around...there are rails all over the land here!

 

[Hoopguru]

I've taken Amtrak to San Diego twice and once to San Luis Obispo....the train was pretty full...lots of folks use that line. I flew to San Diego about 15 years ago and it was insanely expensive...that's a cheap airfare! The trick with the train is to break the trip into little stop overs....really makes a nice trip of it.

Id like to take a train to Santa Barbara rent a call and drive back or other way around.

 

[riverman]

The interesting part is - how long did it take for the blackouts to be resolved and when it took longer - was it because of time getting service crews?

In my property it's quicker than outlying neighborhoods because the Forestry Dept is at the bottom of my hill....usually back on in a day and a half....long blackout 3 or 4 days....my buddy out west of Crow can be out for a week and a half at times...depends upon where you are located when I call Lane electric they never give details of the cause...just that they're working hard to fix it.

 

[riverman]

Id like to take a train to Santa Barbara rent a call and drive back or other way around.

I've flown down and taken the train back before...I like the trip back....sleep through Sac and Oakland...wake up in Shasta....cruise on into Eugene by noon.

 

[andalusian]

In my property it's quicker than outlying neighborhoods because the Forestry Dept is at the bottom of my hill....usually back on in a day and a half....long blackout 3 or 4 days....my buddy out west of Crow can be out for a week and a half at times...depends upon where you are located when I call Lane electric they never give details of the cause...just that they're working hard to fix it.

That certainly sounds like an issue in your neck of the woods. I do not think we have had anything longer than 5 hours here - and even that was scheduled when they changed a wooden pole with a metal one.

 

[Hoopguru]

I've flown down and taken the train back before...I like the trip back....sleep through Sac and Oakland...wake up in Shasta....cruise on into Eugene by noon.

Ill have to check that out.

 

[riverman]

That certainly sounds like an issue in your neck of the woods. I do not think we have had anything longer than 5 hours here - and even that was scheduled when they changed a wooden pole with a metal one.

My son in Eugene always has power when ours is out....as I said...it's almost always fallen branches and trees......EPUD in Eugene is more stable than Lane Electric.....I don't have a choice but I know I have lived in poorer places and not had this many blackouts....to me ...it's the pole system...fiber optic cable here is all buried....if it breaks they go to a 4 ft tall junction box...snake it out and replace it.....lot easier than using a cherry picker 20 ft in the air in a storm if you ask me...my son has some scary photos of fixing power lines on hiway 101 around Big Sur..where the roads washed out..they don't make his job easy.

 

[Strenuus]

The railroads own the most beautiful country around...there are rails all over the land here!

It's true. The only part of the country I haven't explored by train yet is the SE (past Lousiana). Maybe someday? But not much I want to see down that way.

 

[Phatguysrule]

This country needs a lot of infrastructure work in any shape at this point. High speed rail is nice and will help some - but frankly - just updating the road infrastructure would be great - frankly, building the national grid and supporting EVs is the low-hanging fruit that probably makes the most sense as far as infrastructure work.

No reason not to do both. But yeah, for sure.

 

[Lanny]

Does high speed rail really need to support itself? Wouldn't the economic and environmental benefits of a high speed rail system be worth the investment?

Imagine moving freight cross country in a few hours without having to use air. Or being able to commute to a high paying job in Seattle or LA. No more traffic jams if expanded at the local level.

Seems like the economic benefit we'd get just by building it would almost be worth the investment. At least, if we did it at a national level.

In Korea they have really exploited mass transit. Most people use the bus but an awful lot went by train. I could use a taxicab and go one kilometer or less for less than one dollar and transport all the people we could pack into one vehicle. This was great for bar hopping. Taxis, trains and buses were everywhere and cheap.
People are surprised when I tell them that they can transport freight such as when moving from one city to another by train or bus very cheap especially if it is written material such as books.
I use to ride the Max blue line to all the Blazer games. These trains were packed. Think of the traffic and parking that saves.
Me? I'm all for mass transit.
I've even ridden Greyhound cross country, Portland to Alabama and back. Use to ride Greyhound and Trailways often between Ft. Lewis and Portland.

Today I got a promo from Alaska Air you can fly to San Diego, Minneapolis, Phoenix, for $69, other closer cities $59.
Now thats the way to travel if your are in a hurry. Ive got over a million air miles but have never taken the train anywhere.
My son used to take Amtrak to and from UofO which was reasonable.

I've never doubted you about anything.

 

[Lanny]

Id like to take a train to Santa Barbara rent a call and drive back or other way around.

When you say rent a call, do you mean rent a call girl? Asking for a friend, Sly.

 

[Lanny]

That certainly sounds like an issue in your neck of the woods. I do not think we have had anything longer than 5 hours here - and even that was scheduled when they changed a wooden pole with a metal one.

During the recent ice storm, we lost power for five days and I live in Lake Oswego, for crying out loud. We had a lot of prime steaks and high quality other cuts of meat which we had to throw out along with a lot of other refrigerate and frozen other stuff. Coupled with our other hotel and meal costs, we lost one hell of a lot of money. Then there was the clean up costs for all the broken and dying limbs ($1,000) and the aggravation, oh the aggravation.
When I was a teenager, I lived in N.W. Portland. We were near two hospitals and numerous medical clinics. We were never without power for more than an hour. This includes the Columbus day storm.

 

[Lanny]

Call our resident pimp @EL PRESIDENTE for a discount on that sort of stuff. He's got a wide variety for you to choose from.

At my age, I wouldn't know what to do with it.
Now Sly, well let's just say that Sly is the real superman in that department.

 

[Lanny]

Thought he's neutered? I guess he can always use his tail?

Then you could truly say his other got some tail.
Come on now, don't groan on me.

 

[Hoopguru]

When you say rent a call, do you mean rent a call girl? Asking for a friend, Sly.

lol....hard to type with your toes and besides this damn computer has a mind of its own.

 

[speeds]

@speeds, you only liked my post because the video I posted said Canadians are liked by everyone. It's annoyingly true.

Canadians DON'T hate Americans. Canadians love Americans. But you're fuckin' wild, bud. All of you.