Politics 'We're Digging Coal Again': Trump Celebrates Opening of New Coal Mine

[BigGameDamian]

www.google.com/amp/www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/06/09/were-digging-coal-again-donald-trump-celebrates-opening-of-new-pennsylvania-coal-mine/amp/

President Donald Trump celebrated the opening of a new coal mine in Pennsylvania, sending a recorded video to miners for the ceremony

 

[Denny Crane]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095809917300814

Clean Coal Technologies in China: Current Status and Future Perspectives

Abstract
Coal is the dominant primary energy source in China and the major source of greenhouse gases and air pollutants. To facilitate the use of coal in an environmentally satisfactory and economically viable way, clean coal technologies (CCTs) are necessary. This paper presents a review of recent research and development of four kinds of CCTs: coal power generation; coal conversion; pollution control; and carbon capture, utilization, and storage. It also outlines future perspectives on directions for technology research and development (R&D). This review shows that China has made remarkable progress in the R&D of CCTs, and that a number of CCTs have now entered into the commercialization stage.

 

[Denny Crane]

This part is interesting.

In the 11th Five-Year Plan (2006–2010) for national economic and social development, the government stipulated a targeted 20% reduction in energy consumption per unit gross domestic product (GDP) in 2010 relative to that in 2005

There are two obvious ways to accomplish this.

Turn the power off to 1 in 5 households.

Make everything plugged into the wall 20% more efficient.

The latter isn't going to do the whole job.

Note that it's per unit of GDP, so as their GDP grows, so will their power consumption overall.

 

[barfo]

This part is interesting.

In the 11th Five-Year Plan (2006–2010) for national economic and social development, the government stipulated a targeted 20% reduction in energy consumption per unit gross domestic product (GDP) in 2010 relative to that in 2005

There are two obvious ways to accomplish this.

Turn the power off to 1 in 5 households.

Make everything plugged into the wall 20% more efficient.

The latter isn't going to do the whole job.

Note that it's per unit of GDP, so as their GDP grows, so will their power consumption overall.

2010 passed sometime back, either they already accomplished that goal or they never will.

barfo

 

[Stevenson]

 

[Jade Falcon]

Good. I enjoy seeing jobs start up once again. That area of the country is in dire need of this. Many families dissolved into poverty and welfare when these jobs left.

 

[barfo]

Good. I enjoy seeing jobs start up once again. That area of the country is in dire need of this. Many families dissolved into poverty and welfare when these jobs left.

70-100 jobs is not very many. Good for those 70-100, but doesn't really move the needle in a country with 350 million.

barfo

 

[Jade Falcon]

70-100 jobs is not very many. Good for those 70-100, but doesn't really move the needle in a country with 350 million.

barfo

I agree. But like you said: that's 70-100 families who are going to be able to afford a house payment, food, or education for their kids.

 

[barfo]

I agree. But like you said: that's 70-100 families who are going to be able to afford a house payment, food, or education for their kids.

Yes, but making policy based on that few people is not wise. For example, there are ~175 kids accidentally killed each year with guns. Should we ban guns to try to save those 175 kids?

barfo

 

[Jade Falcon]

Yes, but making policy based on that few people is not wise. For example, there are ~175 kids accidentally killed each year with guns. Should we ban guns to try to save those 175 kids?

barfo

They aren't making it for 100 people; they're making it for thousands of coal workers who have been put out of work this past decade. Now granted, not all of them are going to come back. Some of those jobs are just gone. But you're pointing out one mine here. There are dozens of mines scattered across the Eastern half of the US, and this will give incentive for other out-of-business mining companies to start back up or increase their work force. That will definitely benefit many people.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

China Cancels 103 Coal Plants, Mindful of Smog and Wasted Capacity

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/18/world/asia/china-coal-power-plants-pollution.html

 

[barfo]

They aren't making it for 100 people; they're making it for thousands of coal workers who have been put out of work this past decade. Now granted, not all of them are going to come back. Some of those jobs are just gone. But you're pointing out one mine here. There are dozens of mines scattered across the Eastern half of the US, and this will give incentive for other out-of-business mining companies to start back up or increase their work force. That will definitely benefit many people.

I'm afraid coal is not going to make a serious comeback unless taxpayers subsidize coal to make it cheaper than the alternatives. Do you want to pay extra taxes so that coal miners can dig coal?

Note that this mine is for metallurgical coal (i.e. to make steel). Thermal coal, the type used in power plants, is the vast majority of coal dug. So this mine isn't some sort of harbinger of an upswing in coal mining.

barfo

 

[Jade Falcon]

I'm afraid coal is not going to make a serious comeback unless taxpayers subsidize coal to make it cheaper than the alternatives. Do you want to pay extra taxes so that coal miners can dig coal?

Note that this mine is for metallurgical coal (i.e. to make steel). Thermal coal, the type used in power plants, is the vast majority of coal dug. So this mine isn't some sort of harbinger of an upswing in coal mining.

barfo

Personally, I don't see how much more cheaper we could possibly make coal. I figure that if Chinese peasants and backwoods folks in the various isolated areas of this country use coal for warmth, then it's probably already pretty cheap.

But I suppose wood could be cheaper? I bought 4 bundles of wood for a camp fire at a buddy's house just last Friday, and it cost me $20, from Fred Meyer. That lasted us an entire day.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Yes, but making policy based on that few people is not wise. For example, there are ~175 kids accidentally killed each year with guns. Should we ban guns to try to save those 175 kids?

barfo

Yes.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think Trump should show how desirable these coal jobs are by sending his children down the mines.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

I'm afraid coal is not going to make a serious comeback unless taxpayers subsidize coal to make it cheaper than the alternatives. Do you want to pay extra taxes so that coal miners can dig coal?

Note that this mine is for metallurgical coal (i.e. to make steel). Thermal coal, the type used in power plants, is the vast majority of coal dug. So this mine isn't some sort of harbinger of an upswing in coal mining.

barfo

Now you've done it Barfo. You've revealed Trumps heretofore secret but bigly news that he is singlehandly going to revive the US steel industry and that's why we need that coal. #winning

 

[oldfisherman]

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I agree. But like you said: that's 70-100 families who are going to be able to afford a house payment, food, or education for their kids.

Stop, these are the same people who will say how unemployment creates a net positive. Don't waste your words.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Welfare I mean, same idea.

 

[barfo]

Personally, I don't see how much more cheaper we could possibly make coal. I figure that if Chinese peasants and backwoods folks in the various isolated areas of this country use coal for warmth, then it's probably already pretty cheap.

But I suppose wood could be cheaper? I bought 4 bundles of wood for a camp fire at a buddy's house just last Friday, and it cost me $20, from Fred Meyer. That lasted us an entire day.

Most coal is burned in power plants, not in fireplaces or campfires or whatever.

It turns out that natural gas is cheaper and cleaner.

barfo

 

[Jade Falcon]

Most coal is burned in power plants, not in fireplaces or campfires or whatever.

It turns out that natural gas is cheaper and cleaner.

barfo

....and a lot more costly to get. That's the part you're leaving out. Never-mind the fact that a bunch of Liberal college retards protest whenever you drill for it.

It also takes a lot more infrastructure to get it, convert it, and burn it than traditional coal does.

 

[barfo]

....and a lot more costly to get. That's the part you're leaving out. Never-mind the fact that a bunch of Liberal college retards protest whenever you drill for it.

It also takes a lot more infrastructure to get it, convert it, and burn it than traditional coal does.

It doesn't entirely make sense to say that it is a lot more costly to get, but is cheaper, does it?

barfo

 

[Jade Falcon]

It doesn't entirely make sense to say that it is a lot more costly to get, but is cheaper, does it?

barfo

Then why did you say it? All I did was add to your equation.

By all means, if you can find an UNBIASED source that says gas is cheaper and EASIER to get than Coal, then I'll believe you.

 

[barfo]

Then why did you say it? All I did was add to your equation.

By all means, if you can find an UNBIASED source that says gas is cheaper and EASIER to get than Coal, then I'll believe you.

Well, actually I'm going to retract my statement and admit I was wrong. I know that's against the S2 code of conduct, but oh well.

I was a bit out of date. It seems that over the past year the price of gas has recovered such that coal is in fact cheaper to burn right now.

barfo

 

[Jade Falcon]

Well, actually I'm going to retract my statement and admit I was wrong. I know that's against the S2 code of conduct, but oh well.

I was a bit out of date. It seems that over the past year the price of gas has recovered such that coal is in fact cheaper to burn right now.

barfo

Don't feel bad. I wish more people on here would admit when they're wrong. There's no shame in that.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Don't feel bad. I wish more people on here would admit when they're wrong. There's no shame in that.

It's the US power companies that want to burn gas over coal. Coal is very dirty to burn, the operation and maintenance cost are much higher than natural gas.

 

[barfo]

Yes... old coal plants are being retired, and new coal plants aren't being built. It is unlikely that demand for coal is going to increase domestically. Maybe we can dig it up and ship it to China for them to burn, but they have their own coal mines.

barfo

 

[ripcityboy]

Good friend of mine's family were all coal miners from the Midwest. Holy shit did they have some stories. "I owe my soul to the company store." You ain't lying, Mr. Ford. I will never take for granted something I bought but didn't make. I will never take for granted something I eat but didn't kill. I will never bullshit myself into thinking that I am cultured than another community of people just because they go to church and shop at Walmart. I realize that I must have empathy with people who I am nothing alike and always see it from there perspective. Coal may be terrible for the environment and an outmoded way of making a living, but I understand where the people who dig it are coming from.

 

[barfo]

I may have posted this graph before but it is pretty amazing. 100 years ago, almost a million people were coal miners.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

or they never will.

barfo