Wesley Matthews and the Question of Talent

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Not a bad article. The Mathews is what you get, a gritty defender who plays with all heart. Good three point shooter but thats about it on offense. I love him in the starting lineup because I think his weakness of not being able to create his own shot is mitigated by how damn talented Lillard/Batum/LA are. He is a great team player but after center we need to try and find a backup SG who can eventually replace Mathews down the line.
 
Hello? Will Barton?

Actually, I was thinking that Will Barton reminds me of Jarrett Jack in his "you love him until one of his bonehead plays" type game. After thinking he was a writeoff, the last ten games or so convinced me that he will eventually find a home in this league, just as Jack has.
 
Incidentally, I know everybody hates +/-, but whenever I used to check, Wesley was either #1 or #2 on the Blazers in it. If we lost Wesley, we would be an entire team of quiet types. You need the loud, fiery type who gets pissed off at losing. He's also our best defender. And, I have to say, I thought at the beginning of the season that his offense was much improved and he'd actually developed a little bit of a handle.
 
Wes has always struck me as a below average defender who plays the passing lanes well on defense and a spot up shooter who can't create his own shot or create for others on offense.

has always seemed really overvalued by a lot of fans.
 
Its really hard not to like his attitude and heart. As others have mentioned I think he is the perfect bench player.
 
Boise Blazer said:
Its really hard not to like his attitude and heart. As others have mentioned I think he is the perfect bench player.
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At the very least this is why why we hope to keep him. I do not want to see him as a throw in to make a trade, but of course if the right trade occurred.......

Rhal has a good point as well. He does compliment Nic and Damian if both of them attacked the rim. Since Wes can not attack the rim effectively, we need Nic to. If Nic won't /can't then we need a SG who can. Got to have two on the floor who can.

Whether Wes starts or goes to the bench I like his leadership skills. I would rather keep him then trade him.
 
The Dude said:
Wes has always struck me as a below average defender who plays the passing lanes well on defense and a spot up shooter who can't create his own shot or create for others on offense.

has always seemed really overvalued by a lot of fans.
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I agree. He's a good trade asset, if we are looking to use one of the starting 4 to upgrade that position.
 
The Dude said:
Wes has always struck me as a below average defender
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Maybe league-wide, but compared with all his teammates, he's fucking stellar.

and a spot up shooter who can't create his own shot or create for others on offense.
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Isn't that true of a hell of a lot of otherwise very valuable players? Didn't Ray Allen make a very nice career out of that? Yes, Ray could drive a bit, but so can Wesley, especially if a defender bites on a fake because Wesley is a damn GOOD spot up shooter.

has always seemed really overvalued by a lot of fans.
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Don't mistake "loving" for "valuing". He's our mascot now.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
If he's overvalued by the fans, then he's not likely to be a good trade asset, is he? Are we hoping that GMs of other teams are fans of this one?
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Fans think he's a top 5 sg in the league. That's seriously overvaluing him.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Maybe league-wide, but compared with all his teammates, he's fucking stellar.



Isn't that true of a hell of a lot of otherwise very valuable players? Didn't Ray Allen make a very nice career out of that? Yes, Ray could drive a bit, but so can Wesley, especially if a defender bites on a fake because Wesley is a damn GOOD spot up shooter.



Don't mistake "loving" for "valuing". He's our mascot now.
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I think as I move along in my S2 life, I will be staying away from the bantering back and forth, but I will give it a shot here.

Maybe league-wide, but compared with all his teammates, he's fucking stellar.

I think I'd rather have someone who was a good defender by league standards than against his own teammates at the practice facility. I'd be shocked if anyone felt differently about this?

Isn't that true of a hell of a lot of otherwise very valuable players? Didn't Ray Allen make a very nice career out of that? Yes, Ray could drive a bit, but so can Wesley, especially if a defender bites on a fake because Wesley is a damn GOOD spot up shooter.

It's hard to find the stats, but if you look at each players first 4 seasons, the numbers show something that is a bit alarming to me. Ray Allen shot less three pointers each of his first 4 years, while Wes has increased his 3pt shooting each of his. I'm not sure that says anything, but it seems by the eye test that Wes is settling a lit more, and the numbers back that up a bit.

I like Wes too. I'm just not sure he should be a guy that is considered part of the "core"
 
The Dude said:
I think as I move along in my S2 life, I will be staying away from the bantering back and forth, but I will give it a shot here.

Maybe league-wide, but compared with all his teammates, he's fucking stellar.

I think I'd rather have someone who was a good defender by league standards than against his own teammates at the practice facility. I'd be shocked if anyone felt differently about this?

Isn't that true of a hell of a lot of otherwise very valuable players? Didn't Ray Allen make a very nice career out of that? Yes, Ray could drive a bit, but so can Wesley, especially if a defender bites on a fake because Wesley is a damn GOOD spot up shooter.

It's hard to find the stats, but if you look at each players first 4 seasons, the numbers show something that is a bit alarming to me. Ray Allen shot less three pointers each of his first 4 years, while Wes has increased his 3pt shooting each of his. I'm not sure that says anything, but it seems by the eye test that Wes is settling a lit more, and the numbers back that up a bit.

I like Wes too. I'm just not sure he should be a guy that is considered part of the "core"
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Is there such thing as a bench core??? :)
 
magnifier661 said:
So if you used Matthews and cap space to grab a top 5 sf, then see batum move to sg; would you consider it an upgrade?
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First question, were would that put Batum in the SG ranks in your opinion?

And is Iggy a top 5 SF anymore? LeBron, Carmelo, Josh Smith, Paul George, then Iggy?

Honestly I would take Chandler Parsons over Iggy (nothing against Iggy - still like him) even though he isn't a big name.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
First question, were would that put Batum in the SG ranks in your opinion?

And is Iggy a top 5 SF anymore? LeBron, Carmelo, Josh Smith, Paul George, then Iggy?

Honestly I would take Chandler Parsons over Iggy (nothing against Iggy - still like him) even though he isn't a big name.
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Lebron, Carmelo, George, igy and deng are who I consider the top five. Josh smith is a pf. He really doesn't play sf anymore.

I would even consider bringing in Webster at starting sf and moving batum to sg.
 
magnifier661 said:
Lebron, Carmelo, George, igy and deng are who I consider the top five. Josh smith is a pf. He really doesn't play sf anymore.

I would even consider bringing in Webster at starting sf and moving batum to sg.
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But where would Batum rank at SG if you moved him there?

And if you bring Webster in it is for SG and Batum stays at SF. Webster is going to get paid though. 7 MIL per for 3 years is my guess.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
But where would Batum rank at SG if you moved him there?

And if you bring Webster in it is for SG and Batum stays at SF. Webster is going to get paid though. 7 MIL per for 3 years is my guess.
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I think if you put batum against other sg's, he could dominate. He can shoot over anyone 6'5"; which is the average height for shooting guard. Also, guards tend to be weaker than sfs; which he would be able to post up more.
 
Westhree's value can't be measured with statistics. He's the epitome of a glue guy. When he's on the floor, the team is better than the sum of it's parts. I want him on the Blazers.
 
magnifier661 said:
I think if you put batum against other sg's, he could dominate. He can shoot over anyone 6'5"; which is the average height for shooting guard. Also, guards tend to be weaker than sfs; which he would be able to post up more.
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I see you keep ignoring my question :) No prob though man.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
I see you keep ignoring my question :) No prob though man.
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I'm uncomfortable answering it since there hasn't been enough sample to make a true assessment. Sorry...

All of what I say is in my opinion. I said I think he could dominate. I doubt he gets to a wade, Kobe, even smith level; but I think he gets to a top 10 level. Just my opinion because I don't have any physical playing time to really make a good opinion.
 
magnifier661 said:
I'm uncomfortable answering it since there hasn't been enough sample to make a true assessment. Sorry...

All of what I say is in my opinion. I said I think he could dominate. I doubt he gets to a wade, Kobe, even smith level; but I think he gets to a top 10 level. Just my opinion because I don't have any physical playing time to really make a good opinion.
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Fair enough.

I think he could get to top 10 but it would likely be right about 10.

I think he did play a decent amount of minutes at SG two seasons ago. His PER was better than at SF if I recall correct (not saying PER is all that though).
 
While I think of Wes as the most expendable large (ish) contract we have, I have noticed that, on the increasingly rare occasions we go on scoring runs, they tend to be led by him hitting a string of threes. If you just compare him to other SGs, he's going to come out looking bad. But if you think of the team as a group, when he's in that group, the team as currently constructed, tends to be better than when he isn't. He's like a poor-man's Russell Westbrook: everybody hates on Westbrook because of what he isn't, but he helps the Thunder by just being incredibly intense and playing all out. Of course Westbrook is an athletic beast and all-NBA, which Wes (of course) isn't, but there's a reason Wes made it to the league from being undrafted, and that's why he has value.
 
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