What a JOKE...

[Voodoo Child]

So I'm flipping through the channels between commercials during the MSU/BC game and I land on the latest video from Nas. I was... well, shocked and pissed off... couldn't bring myself to change the channel back to the game until the song was over. What's the idea with ripping off Iron Butterfly? The majority of rappers don't sing, they don't play music; they just write the most mind-numbing, often nonsensical, randomly connected sentences. The least they can do before marketing this crap to the public as 'music' is writing an original beat (or getting whoever their 'beatmaker' is to write an original one). What an absolute fucking joke... Erik Brann must be spinning in his grave right now.

 

[B.e.]

You talking about the beat? Yeah its sampled, he sampled it before to, in Thiefs Theme. Its Music, at least Nas isn't making bull sh!t.

 

[Voodoo Child]

<div class="quote_poster">Air Fresh Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You talking about the beat? Yeah its sampled, he sampled it before to, in Thiefs Theme. Its Music, at least Nas isn't making bull sh!t.</div>

Of course I'm talking about the beat. That's why 99.9% of the listeners buy this crap...

Rap sampling = A disrespectful act towards real musicians

 

[thedude9990]

is it that hiphop deads song? if so that songs not good at all

 

[Voodoo Child]

<div class="quote_poster">thedude9990 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">is it that hiphop deads song? if so that songs not good at all</div>

Yes, it is, and the song he ripped off was Iron Butterfly's "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida."

 

[Schaddy]

I had not yet heard this latest perversion of good music. I do find it consistently hilarious that rappers steal other people's music all the time, and no one seems to mind at all. I hope that some day in the future, rappers just start copying old rap songs. For instance some day a rapper will write some new lyrics and rap them over the beat of Changes or some other rap classic. I would love to hear the reaction from rap fans then. It's disgusting how many rap songs are nothing more than lyrical vomit sprayed over a classic rock riff, and it's even worse that very few people find that objectionable. But I guess when you're only in it to make money...

 

[B.e.]

<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Of course I'm talking about the beat. That's why 99.9% of the listeners buy this crap...

Rap sampling = A disrespectful act towards real musicians</div>
Beats are not why 99.9% of people buy hip hop.

Don't produces have to get permession from the original musicians before they use the beat? You can thank your favorite musicians for letting them do it. This song is a bad example, but Kanye samples beats very damn well even though he overdoes it. If it is done right, it can turn out nice. In this case in doesn't even sound mixed, which makes it sound bad and unoriginal.

 

[Schaddy]

<div class="quote_poster">Air Fresh Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Beats are not why 99.9% of people buy hip hop.

Don't produces have to get permession from the original musicians before they use the beat? You can thank your favorite musicians for letting them do it. This song is a bad example, but Kanye samples beats very damn well even though he overdoes it.</div>

Quite often, one or more members of an old band are dead or broken up and don't know about a sample before it's already packaged and on the radio.

VC explained this answer much better than I did, though, so refer to his post rather than this one

 

[phunDamentalz]

sampling - yeah, it's not the best. Kind of like when Hollywood does a remake of a movie. Can't these cats just make up their own original stuff?

 

[Schaddy]

<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">sampling - yeah, it's not the best. Kind of like when Hollywood does a remake of a movie. Can't these cats just make up their own original stuff?</div>

That's lame too!

I haven't seen a good remake of a film in awhile, can we start a JBB petition to have them stop doing that crap, too?

 

[Voodoo Child]

<div class="quote_poster">Air Fresh Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Beats are not why 99.9% of people buy hip hop.

Don't produces have to get permession from the original musicians before they use the beat? You can thank your favorite musicians for letting them do it. This song is a bad example, but Kanye samples beats very damn well even though he overdoes it.</div>

99.9% is obviously an exaggeration, not an exact figure, but the majority do, indeed, buy the records for the beats. Most are, in fact, suburban white kids ages 8-16 who are completely drawn in soley by the beats. That's why guys like Mos Def never top the charts, yet guys like Lil' John do.

Permission is usually required if you sample three or more notes, but it's an gray area legally and can be argued either way in the courts, if it's ever pursued. And given how the guy who wrote the riff is dead, I'm not really sure if I want to be thanking him for giving his seal of approval. If any approval was given, it was his managers who did the dirty work.

As for Kanye West, he bastardizes music in general, not just sampling in particular, but just music. He's a disgrace to the very concept of sound, the pretentious, loudmouth, messageless, dolt he is. But that's another topic for another day...

 

[B.e.]

Kanye does it nice, like on Late Registration with Jon Brion, becuase he mixes it up with his own stlye at the same time.

In this case it basically sounds like Will I am just jacked the beat.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He's a disgrace to the very concept of sound, the pretentious, loudmouth, messageless, dolt he is.</div>
You OD'in there. He got arrogant after success, but dude is still nice.

 

[Voodoo Child]

<div class="quote_poster">Air Fresh Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kanye does it nice, like on Late Registration with Jon Brion, becuase he mixes it up with his own stlye at the same time.

In this case it basically sounds like Will I am just jacked the beat.</div>

I've already given my opinion on Kanye, but as far as beatmakers sampling in general... I can stomach it if it's not so blatant of a rip-off as this one is, or that Lil' John "Crazy Train" sample or the P.Diddy "Kashmir" sample... but more often the not they're not that creative.

 

[Schaddy]

P Diddy ripping Kashmir is still the greatest tragedy in the history of music, IMO, and I will never and have never listened to his music since the day I heard that perversion.

 

[Karma]

P.Diddy made money off Mo Money Mo Problems, Been Around The World, Missing You and the song sampling Kashmir (don't know the name). Jesus Christ he's the most unoriginal producer I've ever heard.

Kanye also samples a lot, but his samples aren't as well known. Diddy just samples popular songs that are known as classics, which is bound to people hate rap even more.

By the way, what's the name of the track Diddy created that's ripping off the Kashmir beat?

If someone samples Stairway To Heaven, all well will break lose

 

[44Thrilla]

^"Come with me"

 

[B.e.]

A lot of rap fans don't listen to classical rock, and vice versa, thats why producers can get away with it.

Kanye also samples a lot of R&B ish instead of rock.

 

[Chutney]

It's funny that you mentioned that Lil Jon song. The entire time I was reading this thread, I was thinking about how people always hear the beginning of "Crazy Train" and think Lil Jon's playing. I completely agree with you. Sampling can be done tastefully and respectfully (eg: Eminem's "Stan", a lot of the beats that Eric B. created, etc.), but it's overdone in mainstream hip hop and its a shame that untalented producers and rappers can play on people's ignorance.

I've always wished that P. Diddy would get eaten alive by the zombies of all the dead artists he's ripped off. I hate that man.

 

[NTC]

<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So I'm flipping through the channels between commercials during the MSU/BC game and I land on the latest video from Nas. I was... well, shocked and pissed off... couldn't bring myself to change the channel back to the game until the song was over. What's the idea with ripping off Iron Butterfly? The majority of rappers don't sing, they don't play music; they just write the most mind-numbing, often nonsensical, randomly connected sentences. The least they can do before marketing this crap to the public as 'music' is writing an original beat (or getting whoever their 'beatmaker' is to write an original one). What an absolute fucking joke... Erik Brann must be spinning in his grave right now.</div>

I find it incredibly ironic you're criticizing Rap / Hip-Hop for being mind-numbing, often nonsensical, randomly connected sentences, when you have a Red Hot Chilli Peppers logo in your avatar.

 

[B.e.]

the whole rap X rock thing is either a hit or miss

an example of a hit: Jay Z featuring Chris Martin from Coldplay- Beachchair. Cool song with an interesting point to it.

 

[phunDamentalz]

there's a difference between sampling the whole melody of a song like Nas did and Diddy did, and what guys like Kanye does. DJ Premier samples all kinds of stuff and makes it COMPLETELY his own. Premier's and Kanye's samples should NOT be lumped in with the Diddy samples.

Voodoo, a lot of rap tracks DO sample other hip-hop tracks. Jay-Z's classic debut album was crazy when it came out cause it had two songs that had as their main hook, sampled voices of recent hits by other rappers - D'Evils sampled Snoop's voice as the hook and Dead Presidents II sampled Nas's voice. Sampling Parliament was already being done, but this was the first time I heard that being done.

But it is not just hip-hop. WHat about that Rihanna song that rips off Soft Cell Tainted Love (80s classic)? And then Nelly Furtado has this track Maneater that rips Hall & Oates. Need I mention Vanilla Ice - ripping under pressure, then he had the nerve to say that his was different. lol.

If any of you have tried making music, it is VERY VERY hard to come up with something that has not been done by someone, somewhere. There are only so many notes on the keyboard. Practically every melody was done in classical music 2 or 3 hundred years ago. And just about every bassline has been thought, every kind of groove.......so I don't blame them for paying respect to the past.

 

[Voodoo Child]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
If any of you have tried making music, it is VERY VERY hard to come up with something that has not been done by someone, somewhere. There are only so many notes on the keyboard. Practically every melody was done in classical music 2 or 3 hundred years ago. And just about every bassline has been thought, every kind of groove.......so I don't blame them for paying respect to the past.</div>

Not true at all. I've made three albums on three different instruments (but mainly on the bass), none of which had anything on them that was in any way plagarized.

<div class="quote_poster">NTC187 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I find it incredibly ironic you're criticizing Rap / Hip-Hop for being mind-numbing, often nonsensical, randomly connected sentences, when you have a Red Hot Chilli Peppers logo in your avatar.

</div>

Care to elaborate on how RHCP is any of the above? I've never heard you play anything, but I'd guess you don't have 1/10th of the talent Flea has in his left testicle.

 

[phunDamentalz]

<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Care to elaborate on how RHCP is any of the above? I've never heard you play anything, but I'd guess you don't have 1/10th of the talent Flea has in his left testicle.</div>
Flea is a mad genius, but what I think he meant is RHCP are known for their nonsensical lyrics - they have an album called the uplift mofo party plan - what the hell does that mean?? not to mention the lyrics to "nobody weird like me" i think that's what he was getting at.

 

[Voodoo Child]

<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Flea is a mad genius, but what I think he meant is RHCP are known for their nonsensical lyrics - they have an album called the uplift mofo party plan - what the hell does that mean?? not to mention the lyrics to "nobody weird like me" i think that's what he was getting at.</div>

There's a huge difference between a band that actually writes music and a rapper that just writes words. RHCP is more than Kiedis you know.

Besides, there are many poetic RHCP lyrics, and many that seem outwardly nonsensical but have deeper meaning.

Sure, they have a lot of fun, funky songs with abstract lyrics, but I'm not comparing the lyrics that Kiedis wrote on those songs to the lyrics that rappers write in any way. I'm comparing the entire musical package to that of a rapper.

And even if you're not a fan of Kiedis' lyrics, in the post-BSSM era he's been doing a lot of singing, something you likely won't see a rapper doing.

Still don't get the comparison...

 

[Chutney]

Sampling goes both ways, like phun said. If it's done properly and the artist actually tries to use his own perspective and make the tune his own it can be great. That's like the equivalent of a rock band doing a cover. And then there are the cases where artists try to rip a catchy tune to cover up for their own crappiness.

 

[NTC]

<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Care to elaborate on how RHCP is any of the above? I've never heard you play anything, but I'd guess you don't have 1/10th of the talent Flea has in his left testicle.</div>

Absolutley, hence why I myself am not a musician, I simply dont have the talent. But, I never said I was more talented than Flea, so I dont get your point?

<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Flea is a mad genius, but what I think he meant is RHCP are known for their nonsensical lyrics - they have an album called the uplift mofo party plan - what the hell does that mean?? not to mention the lyrics to "nobody weird like me" i think that's what he was getting at.</div>

This is exactly what I meant. I wouldnt say he is a genius, but Flea is very talented, he's a great singer, but to criticize Hip-Hop for not making sense, and then proclaim yourself as a RHCP fan is a bit of a contradiction, as many of their songs / albums make little to no sense themselves.

As an avid fan of Hip-Hop, I just feel it is my responsibility to defend the genre.

 

[Voodoo Child]

<div class="quote_poster">NTC187 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Absolutley, hence why I myself am not a musician, I simply dont have the talent.



This is exactly what I meant. I wouldnt say he is a genius, but Flea is very talented, he's a great singer, but to criticize Hip-Hop for not making sense, and then proclaim yourself as a RHCP fan is a bit of a contradiction, as many of their songs / albums make little to no sense themselves.

As an avid fan of Hip-Hop, I just feel it is my responsibility to defend the genre.</div>

I wasn't attacking the whole genre (even though it probably came off that way), because I still have my favorites (Mos Def, Common, The Roots, etc.).

Essentially, what I was trying to get around to saying is that musicians in most other genres write music where rappers just write rhymes, and it's unfair for them to take the credit for someone else's hard work writing actual music.

 

[NTC]

<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I wasn't attacking the whole genre (even though it probably came off that way), because I still have my favorites (Mos Def, Common, The Roots, etc.).

Essentially, what I was trying to get around to saying is that musicians in most other genres write music where rappers just write rhymes, and it's unfair for them to take the credit for someone else's hard work writing actual music.</div>

Well thats just stupid, no one is claiming it as their own, alot of MC's are inspired by such songs, music, artists, and they simply take inspiration from it, they're not trying to claim it as their own at all.

Rappers write songs aswell, its just a different form to say Rock, or Pop etc. Hence why we have different genres.

 

[Voodoo Child]

<div class="quote_poster">NTC187 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well thats just stupid, no one is claiming it as their own, alot of MC's are inspired by such songs, music, artists, and they simply take inspiration from it, they're not trying to claim it as their own at all.

Rappers write songs aswell, its just a different form to say Rock, or Pop etc. Hence why we have different genres.</div>

Rappers don't write songs. They write lyrics. There's a difference. Any rambling idiot can write a rap, but it takes talent to play an instrument.

And no one is claiming it as their own? It's his feature single off his new record, which he'll pull in a ton of money from, and where in the song does he pay tribute to Iron Butterfly? I must have missed that part. The majority of the ignorant masses will give credit to Nas for that song and buy the album.

 

[NTC]

And what, Rock is music? Any angry moron can scream into a microphone. Dont you see how stupid what you're saying is? You need to realize that Rock isnt the definition of music, thats the great thing about music, theres all different forms of it, each genre has its flaws, and its strengths, you just have to respect that.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And no one is claiming it as their own? It's his feature single off his new record, which he'll pull in a ton of money from, and where in the song does he pay tribute to Iron Butterfly? I must have missed that part. The majority of the ignorant masses will give credit to Nas for that song and buy the album.</div>

It's obviously a song that has inspired him to write to it, if people dont know that he didnt do the original, then thats their problem. He obviously has gotten permission to sample the song, and if you look in the booklet in the CD, you'll see credit is given to the original artist.

C'mon now VC, I would've expected you to know better.