What are your thoughts on Islam?

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<div class="quote_poster">monty001 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think we can agree that the media influences people's decisions and thoughts about a certain group. They give names such as "Islamists" and "Islamic Terrorists". Did anyone call the Virginia Tech shooter an "Asian Terrorist"?

Why add the word "Islam" in front? Just because the people causing terror are Muslims? What if it were Jews or Christians? "Jewish Terrorists" or "Christian Terrorists"? Would that be fair?</div>

That is quite a good point.

Media is big on sensationalising stories to sell their paper/make people watch and since 9/11 and War on Terrorism, Islamic Terrorists are the 'in' thing in terms of being newsworthy, so they sensationalise what happens and put a negative spin on Islam.
 
<div class="quote_poster">MrJ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So are you saying this is true or false?

"Black people cause the most bullshit (crimes & problems) in the US. Why the hell is racism wrong, then?"</div>

Black people causing the most crimes in United States is a FACT. But, the fact that people dislike ALL black people because of other blacks is wrong.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Pakman Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Black people causing the most crimes in United States is a FACT. But, the fact that people dislike ALL black people because of other blacks is wrong.</div>

Site your sources. I'd like to see the official statistics on that.
 
The thing that I hate the most is how media makes Islam look bad. Like monty said they call us Islamic terrorists and stuff which is really not fair. Media is responsible mainly for all of this stuff.
 
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Site your sources. I'd like to see the official statistics on that.</div>
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/race.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/racetab.htm
^U.S. Department of Justice ? Office of Justice Programs
Bureau of Justice Statistics

The prevalence of imprisonment in 2001 was higher for
-- black males (16.6%) and Hispanic males (7.7%) than for white males (2.6%)
-- black females (1.7%) and Hispanic females (0.7%) than white females (0.3%)

Lifetime chances of a person going to prison are higher for
-- men (11.3%) than for women (1.8%)
-- blacks (18.6%) and Hispanics (10%) than for whites (3.4%)

Based on current rates of first incarceration, an estimated 32% of black males will enter State or Federal prison during their lifetime, compared to 17% of Hispanic males and 5.9% of white males.

Demographics
Women were 12% of the local jail inmates in 2002, up from 10% in 1996.
Jail inmates were older on average in 2002 than 1996: 38% were age 35 or older, up from 32% in 1996.
More than 6 in 10 persons in local jails in 2002 were racial or ethnic minorities, unchanged from 1996.
An estimated 40% were black; 19%, Hispanic, 1% American Indian; 1% Asian; and 3% of more than one race/ethnicity.

5) Black people are 4 times as likely to be arrested on drug charges as white people, even though the two groups use drugs at almost the same rate.
a.true
b.false
ANSWER: 5) a. true: It is also true that the penalties are much higher for use of crack cocaine, a drug often used in poorer communities, than for cocaine, a drug preferred in wealthier communities.

6) Although the incarceration rate for black people in the U.S. is high, it is significantly less than the incarceration rate for black people in South Africa.
a.true
b.false
ANSWER: 6) b. false: In 1992, the incarceration rate for black people in the U.S. was 4 1/2 times as great as that for black people in South Africa.

7) There are more black men in prison today than are attending college.
a.true
b.false
7) a. true: In 1992 there were 583,000 black men in prison compared to 537,000 in college. Since that date the margin has widened.
^^TELL ME THAT ISN'T RIDICULOUS. MORE MEN IN JAIL THAN IN COLLEGE... I GUESS I HAVE EDUCATED MYSELF SOMETHING DOING THIS LITTLE RESEARCH....AND WHATS CRAZY IS - THE GAP IS WIDENING.

Source: http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~kastor/walk...rison-quiz.html
 
I'd attribute those statistics to racial profiling.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">NEW YORK ? The American Civil Liberties Union said today that a newly released Department of Justice report on racial profiling shows an alarming racial disparity in the rate at which motorists are searched by local law enforcement.

The following statement can be attributed to Dennis Parker, Director of the ACLU?s Racial Justice Project:

?These findings demonstrate clear and significant racial disparities in the way in which motorists are treated once they have been stopped by law enforcement. The report found that blacks and Hispanics were roughly three times as likely to be searched during a traffic stop, blacks were twice as likely to be arrested and blacks were nearly four times as likely to experience the threat or use of force during interactions with the police.

?And while the Department of Justice says that the higher rate of searches of blacks and Hispanics is not necessarily the result of racial bias, it begs a critical question: why are blacks and Hispanics subject to searches disproportionately? It?s a question that needs to be answered.

<font size=""4"">?Moreover, there was a significant figure left out of this report ? the racial breakdown of the number of searches that resulted in the discovery of illegal contraband. Previous reports demonstrated that while black and Hispanic drivers were more likely than whites to be searched by law enforcement during traffic stops, they were less likely to be harboring contraband. In 2005 the Justice Department went so far as to try to conceal these numbers. </font>They even demoted the official, Lawrence A. Greenfeld, who compiled them. This report makes no mention of the racial breakdown of the hit rate. It?s an eerie silence and the Justice Department needs to explain why this is not in the report.?

A letter from the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales regarding the Justice Department?s efforts to suppress racial profiling statistics in 2005 is at: www.aclu.org/racialjustice/racialprofiling/20091leg20050830.html

More information on racial profiling can be found at: www.aclu.org/racialjustice/racialprofiling </div>


Source: ACLU.com
 
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'd attribute those statistics to racial profiling.
Source: ACLU.com</div>

Thats a weak excuse, shape. Actually; You're right, because as we all know - 90% of the people that go to jail are drivers....NOT. Because most of the people that kill others, deal with drugs, rob places, harm others, rape others ... are all caught in cars. And those cars are always stopped by the police because the cop is like "hey... a black guy, lets pull him over."

You think so? I think not.
BARELY any people in jail are there because of driving reasons.

But, I have to say - it was a nice way to put off ALL the statistics I had posted, by just one quote about racial profiling AGAINST drivers.

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Site your sources. I'd like to see the official statistics on that.</div>

No use in me trying to site my sources and posting official statistics when ALL of it can be dismissed by a simple "I'd like to blame that on racial profiling." Its useless.
 
I personally think that the colour of a person's skin is just the colour of their skin, similarily to a person's eye colour, or blood colour. Although I think having more melanin helps with preventing skin damage from stronger and longer sun exposure, and having less melanin helps more sunlight be processed for usage for producing Vitamin D.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Pakman Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Thats a weak excuse, shape. Actually; You're right, because as we all know - 90% of the people that go to jail are drivers....NOT. Because most of the people that kill others, deal with drugs, rob places, harm others, rape others ... are all caught in cars. And those cars are always stopped by the police because the cop is like "hey... a black guy, lets pull him over."

You think so? I think not.
BARELY any people in jail are there because of driving reasons.

But, I have to say - it was a nice way to put off ALL the statistics I had posted, by just one quote about racial profiling AGAINST drivers.



No use in me trying to site my sources and posting official statistics when ALL of it can be dismissed by a simple "I'd like to blame that on racial profiling." Its useless.</div>

It's a weak excuse? It's not an excuse at all, it's fact. Did you read the rest of the article? Data was hidden and misreported by the police.

The article I posted was just one example of racial profiling.

Statistics are easily manipulated depending on the sample data you are using.

Economics also plays a major role in how people are convicted when they are arrested and go to trial. If you have the money to afford a lawyer, you're chances of getting a reduced sentence or even winning your case are stronger.

If you can't afford a lawyer and have to rely on a court appointed one, you're likely going to end up with the maximum, or near maximum punishment.

Do you really believe the justice system and the people enforcing it aren't corrupt or prejudice?

How can you downplay racial profiling?

Minorities are often viewed as guilty suspects without any evidence. Who do you think is more likley to get searched at an airport? Joe Smith or Muhammed Akbar?

You posted stats on the violent crimes, but I'm pointing out to you, these statistics are flawed because of racial profiling and economics.
 
listen to shape.........there are numerous reasons why so many blacks are in jail and a lot has to do with racial profiling by the police, BS D.A.'s, unfair drug laws, unfair laws, our public schooling systems, environment and opportunities, etc......and to be honest bigger crimes are commited on the corporate level (white collar crimes) that a lot of times are never even taken to court....saying "blacks do the most crimes" based on numbers and not an actual evaluation of why those numbers are that way isn't a good thing to based that flawed opinion on.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What inspired you to become Muslim?</div>


I don't know if anything really "inspired" me to do it. But just learning about my history and my ancestors was part of the reason.
 
to get back to shapes point....I have 2 friends doing time right now in texas prison facilities......one is there, because he jumped a guy and got into a fight in a guy with prison to longer his sentence, and the other is there because he was pulled over and he had weed on him (a violation of his probation)......I don't commend any of the things they did, but to be locked up for a good amount of time over BS like that is ridiculous.....and you also have to remember what jail time does to your public record....it's not easy to find a "good" job after serving time in the state pen, that's why you have a lot of repeat offenders.....the U.S. judicial system is one of the biggest money makers (if not the biggest) for the U.S.....that's why prisons are being built faster than schools.
 
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's a weak excuse? It's not an excuse at all, it's fact. Did you read the rest of the article? Data was hidden and misreported by the police.

The article I posted was just one example of racial profiling.

Statistics are easily manipulated depending on the sample data you are using.

Economics also plays a major role in how people are convicted when they are arrested and go to trial. If you have the money to afford a lawyer, you're chances of getting a reduced sentence or even winning your case are stronger.

If you can't afford a lawyer and have to rely on a court appointed one, you're likely going to end up with the maximum, or near maximum punishment.

Do you really believe the justice system and the people enforcing it aren't corrupt or prejudice?

How can you downplay racial profiling?

Minorities are often viewed as guilty suspects without any evidence. Who do you think is more likley to get searched at an airport? Joe Smith or Muhammed Akbar?

You posted stats on the violent crimes, but I'm pointing out to you, these statistics are flawed because of racial profiling and economics.</div>

So why did you ask me to site my sources and ask for official statistics?

If they were to be down played by "racial profiling." I mean, then all statistics on race issues are wrong because racism exists everywhere and racial profiling happens everywhere.
 
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know if anything really "inspired" me to do it. But just learning about my history and my ancestors was part of the reason.</div>I thought you said your mom was a devout Christian, and your dad was a sort of Christian? Or are you talking about Grandparents.
 
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
I don't know if anything really "inspired" me to do it. But just learning about my history and my ancestors was part of the reason.</div>

Would you be dating back to Africa? Because North Africa is crowded with Muslims.
 
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">to get back to shapes point....I have 2 friends doing time right now in texas prison facilities......one is there, because he jumped a guy and got into a fight in a guy with prison to longer his sentence, and the other is there because he was pulled over and he had weed on him (a violation of his probation)......I don't commend any of the things they did, but to be locked up for a good amount of time over BS like that is ridiculous.....and you also have to remember what jail time does to your public record....it's not easy to find a "good" job after serving time in the state pen, that's why you have a lot of repeat offenders.....the U.S. judicial system is one of the biggest money makers (if not the biggest) for the U.S.....that's why prisons are being built faster than schools.</div>

Sorry, but I can't defend your friends at all. If you jump a guy and beat the sh*t out of him, I'm assuming that 1) you obviously meant to hurt him and 2) you hurt him. Therefore, why shouldn't he be doing the time that he is? The whole point of prison is being a correctional facility wherin people are given the oppurtunity to feel remorse for thier actions and realize that what they did was wrong.

If you give them a slap on the wrist, you think they'd realize anything? I watched a documentary on San Quentin recently, and the longer an inmate is inside prison, the more remorseful and 'corrected' they become. Eventually, being locked up 20-23 hours a day takes its toll on you. I know he is your friend and you're partial towards him, so I apologize if anything I say sounds harsh, but if your friend was let loose after serving say...a month in jail, do you honestly think he wouldn't jump another guy? Wouldn't he revert back to his old ways?

As for your other friend with weed on him; it's one thing to have weed on you (I don't know the amount he had specifically), and it's another to break a law while violating your probation in the process. Since he breached his probation rules, he brought the whole ordeal upon himself and is thus in jail.

Unless someone is genuinely not guilty of the crime that they have commited, you can't just say "they don't deserve the sentence they have". There's a reason behind why they are in jail. Whether that was a white guy, brown guy, asian guy or black guy being found with weed in thier car while violating parole, they all would have gotten the same sentence.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I thought you said your mom was a devout Christian, and your dad was a sort of Christian? Or are you talking about Grandparents.</div>

no about the history of my race and the world in general.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry, but I can't defend your friends at all. If you jump a guy and beat the sh*t out of him, I'm assuming that 1) you obviously meant to hurt him and 2) you hurt him. Therefore, why shouldn't he be doing the time that he is?
</div>

Hold up slow your roll homie, lol....you don't even know about the story in detail. Jumped = he beat up a guy, and I never said he should've gotten a slap on the wrist, but to serve a good 2-3 years of your life for that, yes I think that is B.S.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The whole point of prison is being a correctional facility wherin people are given the oppurtunity to feel remorse for thier actions and realize that what they did was wrong.</div>

lol, the problem is they don't "correct" anything, that's why a lot of people no matter what they're in for come out worst....do you know what goes on in prisons???....if prisons actually corrected problems then the United States govt. wouldn't benefit off that financially.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for your other friend with weed on him; it's one thing to have weed on you (I don't know the amount he had specifically), and it's another to break a law while violating your probation in the process. Since he breached his probation rules, he brought the whole ordeal upon himself and is thus in jail.</div>

I'm not taking all the blame away from them (because they were wrong for their actions) but to serve serious time because you're a weed smoker is ridiculous also (for various reasons)....the main point I was trying to make is that there are a lot people out there like my friend that got pulled over, because of his skin color...that's when racial profiling comes into the picture....that was the main point I was trying to make in his case.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Unless someone is genuinely not guilty of the crime that they have commited, you can't just say "they don't deserve the sentence they have". There's a reason behind why they are in jail. .</div>

if the crime doesn't fit the time, yes you can say that.....

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Whether that was a white guy, brown guy, asian guy or black guy being found with weed in thier car while violating parole, they all would have gotten the same sentence</div>

you don't know that.....
 
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
Hold up slow your roll homie, lol....you don't even know about the story in detail. Jumped = he beat up a guy, and I never said he should've gotten a slap on the wrist, but to serve a good 2-3 years of your life for that, yes I think that is B.S.
</div>

The bolded part was exactly what I said. "If you jump a guy and beat the sh*t out of him, I'm assuming that 1) you obviously meant to hurt him and 2) you hurt him". So, the severity of his punishment depends on how badly the victim was hurt, the amount of his participation in the jumping and how often he has been in trouble with the law. If the victim wasn't injured at all then okay, 3 years may be a little too much, but just the fact that he tried to beat the sh*t out of someone and physically injure them constitues punishment.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
lol, the problem is they don't "correct" anything, that's why a lot of people no matter what they're in for come out worst
</div>

Not really. The whole point of jail is to take the freedom that you have in society away, and I think jails do an adequate job of that. The reason people are in jail is because they can't follow the rules of society, so essentially, they can't act accordingly to society's rules and boundaries. If you can't follow the rules, you can't participate. It's quite simple. Stop breaking the damn rules and maybe you wouldn't be stuck in a cramped prison cell 23 hours a day. I don't buy the excuse of "I had no other choice". Everyone has a choice, regardless of the circumstance. You either falter to your environment, or you make something of yourself one step at a time.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
do you know what goes on in prisons???....
</div>

Yes, I know what goes on in prisons. Prison gangs, rapes, hits and politics are all things I'm aware of.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">if prisons actually corrected problems then the United States govt. wouldn't benefit off that financially
</div>

So, what exactly do you propose the government do? The public spends it's taxes on feeding and housing these indaviduals; these are the same indaviduals who have taken away lives and hurt and injured other individuals and basically disregarded the basic rules of society. In addition to the public helping them gather thier lives in a correctional facility through thier taxes, oppurtunities of education and learning trade skills are also available to them.

If you're being detained for a long period of time, you obviously need to straighten your life out. And if prison is just another step in your life and you really believe that it doesn't serve any purpose, then okay, you're going to be back here again.

Anyways, I don't know why we're arguing about the prison system; that's a whole different topic in itself. Yes, racial profiling does exist, but I don't think the numbers of the amount of black people in jail are really affected by it.

It boils down to this. Regardless of racial profiling or not, for someone to be in jail, that means they must have broken a law right? So, if they are in jail, that means, regardless of if they were pulled over cause they were black or brown, they still broke a law and should be accordingly punished.
 
Prisons don't "correct" anyone, they just mess them up (more).

One of my friends, smart guy, graduated high school with honors, graphics designer...he happened to be barred out one day and he saw the guy that robbed his house. The other guy he was with wanted to jump him and jack his wallet, so he went along with it, after telling him to chill out several times, and now he's doing 5 years if he's lucky. Just because the judge saw a tat on his hand, she assumed he was a bad person and gave him the max.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Legacy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Just read their books. The Bible, the Qur'an, the Torah. All of them say a bunch of stuff, but you usually follow the on you believe in most and or agree with the rules. To me, most of the things that are said in the Qu'ran. I agree more with Islamic stuff than I do with Christiany, Hinduism, Judaism, and all of the other religions. Plus I have learned alot more upon Islam with my parents enrolling me in some classes that teach religion.

What religion are you Sasha (if any) and why did you choose to follow it?</div>
I said factual. The Bible, Qur'an, Torah and the such are all fables.

I'm not a religion, nor do I follow such blasphemy.
I'm my own God.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Pakman Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So why did you ask me to site my sources and ask for official statistics?

If they were to be down played by "racial profiling." I mean, then all statistics on race issues are wrong because racism exists everywhere and racial profiling happens everywhere.</div>

I asked for sources because you said ...

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting pakman:</div><div class="quote_post">Black people causing the most crimes in United States is a FACT</div>

When it's not a fact. Look at this chart from the site you sorted earlier.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables...tingracetab.htm

The most crimes are committed by people illegally crossing the border from Mexico and other Latin countries.
 
<div class="quote_poster">igotask8board Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">^You have life all figured out.</div>
Why do you think that?
 
<div class="quote_poster">Sasha Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Why do you think that?</div>
I suppose, because he sees that you don't rely on organized religion. As if that's the only source of knowledge about the world...

Honestly, I don't have a problem with any perspective on spirituality (even if its no perspective at all). I may have my own beliefs, but the only thing I expect from others is a basic acceptance of differing opinions and worldviews. Too often, both religious and non-religious sides descend into pretentious insults and ignorant arguments that just annoy the hell out of me.
 
I don't.

I'm not a religion...witty response.

EDIT: I do agree with Chutney's post though, "don't rely on organized religion. As if that's the only source of knowledge about the world..."
 
The fact that blacks commit more crimes than white people(for the sake of this discussion, lets assume it is true) doesnt say anything about the general character or morals of their race, it just shows the difference between their present soccial situation. If white people were the minority, and had the same economical and social status that black people have now, they would be committing the majority of the crimes.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Pgballer17 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The fact that blacks commit more crimes than white people(for the sake of this discussion, lets assume it is true) doesnt say anything about the general character or morals of their race, it just shows the difference between their present soccial situation.</div>

EXACTLY. Why is this such a hard concept for people to understand?
 
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I suppose, because he sees that you don't rely on organized religion. As if that's the only source of knowledge about the world...

Honestly, I don't have a problem with any perspective on spirituality (even if its no perspective at all). I may have my own beliefs, but the only thing I expect from others is a basic acceptance of differing opinions and worldviews. Too often, both religious and non-religious sides descend into pretentious insults and ignorant arguments that just annoy the hell out of me.</div>

Nice prose, I agree with you.
 
After going through all the racism and Religion chat on here, all I have to write is that some of you need to get out more and get a real glimpse of hatred and problems. You think profiling and racism of blacks is bad in the US? Wow, seriously, time to get educated about the subject. Black people are indeed some of the most racially abused in the world. However, the majority of that comes from other countries.

Black people in France, Spain and other countries can't even get a fair count of anything basically and they really never complain at all for how much abuse they receive. In many countries in Europe, black people can't even host television shows let alone write for magazines or get their work published unless they're sports athletes, if even that. They are abused verbally and physically by people mostly in Spain and Italy and the reports are usually never mentioned on television or the papers, Why? People don't really care at all over there for the common black person.

What is scary about that? France is actually considered to be one of the better countries for fairness and less abuse with black people in Europe, yet they can't get certain media jobs and other types of occupation and are still labelled. When you go to the southern coastal towns and cities you'll often find black people are abused by others who enjoy making monkey noises and throwing fruits and batteries among other things at them. Sad thing is that this is all considered as every day stuff. If that happened in the United States, it would spark a huge media outburst with all the reverends preaching old slavery talk and etc, etc. These preachers wonder why people don't respect them yet? Because they're dumb *****. My goodness not everything revolves around the United States or one race. What a load of crap.

To put it into a short perspective, many of you need to realize that we will all always notice the small amount of bad people that do bad things and some of you will take that and label a race or have a generalization. Small amounts of bad things have a bigger impact on our judgment then many good things. You need to realize that all races are equal, all races have their fair share of problems and that is because we're just people in general. The only thing seperating some of us is that some can't accept other opinions, views or beliefs (Religion). No matter what happens in the world, actions will always speak louder then words to the media. We build our own corruption, hatred and grief.

It is difficult to get a view across through words on the Internet because some of you will read this all as hostile. If you didn't read any of that correctly and want to label me as a racist or some crap, you're an idiot.
 
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">EXACTLY. Why is this such a hard concept for people to understand?</div>

...And I agree with that, I just posted those facts to DEFEND people hating on my religion and Muslims. I mean, had you thought that was wrong - you would've posted something. But since you're not Muslim, it didn't really hurt you. I dont know if you're black or not - but that got your attention.

My main point, which it seems like I had lost focus on was what PgBaller just said. That also applies to Muslims, just because a few... doesn't mean WE'RE all like that.

And XSV, the main person whose post I had quoted so he could understand what I was trying to say has magically disappeared.
 
Don't listen to them, man. The media always has a scapegoat for war, and there's nothing you can say or do about it. Forget about it and just enjoy life.

The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about

Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.-Martin Luther King, Jr.

There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.
-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
 
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