OT What has really been going on with Markelle Fultz?

[Boob-No-More]

Length is what generally affects a shot, not speed. Ball has enough length to counter most defenders.

I used those examples because they had height advantages and slow mechanics.

Length only helps if you have a high release point. Ball does not. He also does not have an exceptionally quick release. He was able to get away with that shit against college kids. Not in the NBA.

His current shooting "form" limits both the speed and height of his release. Unless he drastically changes his shooting form, he will always struggle to get off his shot against NBA defenders.

Of course if he continues to shoot as poorly as he has, that won't be a problem. Defenders will back off him and dare him to shoot.

He really needs to spend his entire off season, starting in mid-April, working with a shooting coach to completely change his shooting form. Anything else would be shear stupidity. If he thinks he can get by with his current shooting style against NBA defenses, he's in for a very mediocre career.

BNM

 

[SportsAndWhine]

View attachment 19736 I think Ball will be in this league for a long time. That is all.

He is literally the ugliest NBA player ever. And I’m including Popeye Jones.

 

[handiman]

Length only helps if you have a high release point. Of course if he continues to shoot as poorly as he has, that won't be a problem. Defenders will back off him and dare him to shoot.

Fair point. I haven't watched any of his games this year (thank god), so I don't know if his shot has been challenged regularly or is just errant. But as a good passer, you have to figure defenders will give him space.

 

[BBert]

Anybody know what's been going on with Markelle Fultz?

 

[Boob-No-More]

Fair point. I haven't watched any of his games this year (thank god), so I don't know if his shot has been challenged regularly or is just errant. But as a good passer, you have to figure defenders will give him space.

He does not shoot contested 3-pointers. He also shoots even more poorly off the dribble.

His shot mechanics are completely screwed up. His shooting form is totally out of alignment. As a right handed shooter, he actually starts his release from the left side of his head, with his own shooting arm obstructing his view of the basket. Because his alignment is screwed up, he misses a lot of shots left and right, not just short and long like most shooters with proper alignment. This is also why he is such an incredibly bad FT shooter.

It also prevents him from getting his legs under his shot. Because of this, doesn't take full advantage of using his legs to generate upward thrust and loses strength on his shot. This results in flicking/flinging his hot using his wrist and arms.

Executive summary: his shot mechanics are completely broken - not one thing right about them.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I think my question is. Do his brothers have the same broken ass form?

Well, you may get to see for yourself come summer league:

LiAngelo Ball declares for NBA draft

LaVar Ball said Lonzo Ball would leave the Lakers if they didn’t sign LiAngelo Ball.

Well, the Lakers will get their chance at LiAngelo, who’s playing in Lithuania following his shoplifting suspension and departure from UCLA.

Shams Charania of Yahoo Sports:

LiAngelo Ball has declared for the 2018 NBA draft, his agent, Harrison Gaines, told Yahoo Sports.

The Lakers have Cleveland’s first-round pick and Denver’s second-rounder, and all eyes will be on LiAngelo when those selections come up. More likely, LiAngelo – a low-end prospect – goes undrafted. Even then, speculation will turn to Los Angeles signing him, even if just for summer league.

Because of his attention-getting father, LiAngelo will get more attention than a player of his caliber typically warrants.

As for LaVar’s threat if the Lakers don’t sign LiAngelo, Lonzo was noncommittal.

BNM

 

[LuckyShot]

You guys think these kids playing from probably 3 years old is the reason their form is so ugly? They started shooting like that because they were not strong enough?

My shot looks like Ray Allen in comparison.

Not just from playing young, but from being allowed to shoot from too far away from the basket, at a rim too high, with a ball too big.

 

[handiman]

He does not shoot contested 3-pointers. He also shoots even more poorly off the dribble.

His shot mechanics are completely screwed up. His shooting form is totally out of alignment. As a right handed shooter, he actually starts his release from the left side of his head, with his own shooting arm obstructing his view of the basket. Because his alignment is screwed up, he misses a lot of shots left and right, not just short and long like most shooters with proper alignment. This is also why he is such an incredibly bad FT shooter.

It also prevents him from getting his legs under his shot. Because of this, doesn't take full advantage of using his legs to generate upward thrust and loses strength on his shot. This results in flicking/flinging his hot using his wrist and arms.

Executive summary: his shot mechanics are completely broken - not one thing right about them.

BNM

So yeah, you basically supported my original point. It's nothing to do with the defense. Ball just hasn't made shots this year. He showed last year that he could be a pretty effective shooter despite horrible technique.

 

[Boob-No-More]

So yeah, you basically supported my original point. It's nothing to do with the defense. Ball just hasn't made shots this year. He showed last year that he could be a pretty effective shooter despite horrible technique.

Yes, it does have something to do with defense. He gets fewer easy shots against NBA caliber defenders. He had less trouble getting his broken shot off against slower, smaller college kids. In the NBA, the average defender he faces will be bigger, quicker and flat out better than the average defender he faced in college. He will struggle to get his shot off consistently against NBA defenders unless he drastically overhauls his shooting form.

BNM

 

[Natebishop3]

Has there ever been a star in this league who couldn't shoot? The closest I can think of are guys like Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutombo and Dennis Rodman. All three were multiple DPOYs and led the league in rebounding multiple times. They also had the luxury of playing on teams that didn't need them to score.

Of course, none of them were guards. In today's NBA, placing the ball in the hands of a guy who can't shoot, with the game on the line, is the kiss of death. Rubio is finally playing on a winning team because UTA can put the ball in Mitchell's hands with the game on the line, but it's Mitchell who is the star, not Rubio. He is what he's always been - a role player.

BNM

Edit- I guess I should have scrolled down further

Probably the early years of Jason Kidd.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kiddja01.html

He won Co-ROY while shooting 38.% from the field and 27% from three.

He pretty consistently shot under 40% from the field over his career. Just a horrible shooter.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Edit- I guess I should have scrolled down further

Probably the early years of Jason Kidd.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kiddja01.html

He won Co-ROY while shooting 38.% from the field and 27% from three.

He pretty consistently shot under 40% from the field over his career. Just a horrible shooter.

Career FG% = exactly .400. He raised his 3FG% over the course of his career and finished with a career 3FG% of .349. Not great, but not awful considering where he started. He was always a decent FT shooter (around .800 in most years), but what really saved him was his ability to drive and finish and his ability to post up smaller PGs. He certainly wasn't going to last as long as he did based on his jump shot alone.

Plus, he was also one of the best perimeter defenders of his generation (1st or 2nd team all defense NINE times).

I can understand the comparisons, but I don't think Ball will be as good as Kidd. His jump shot is even worse, and his defense isn't nearly as elite. I think his upside is somewhere between Ricky Rubio and Jason Kidd.

BNM

 

[handiman]

Yes, it does have something to do with defense. He gets fewer easy shots against NBA caliber defenders. He had less trouble getting his broken shot off against slower, smaller college kids. In the NBA, the average defender he faces will be bigger, quicker and flat out better than the average defender he faced in college. He will struggle to get his shot off consistently against NBA defenders unless he drastically overhauls his shooting form.

BNM

I asked whether his shot has been challenged or if it's just errant, and you responded with a description of how broken his shot is. So, setting theory aside, where's the evidence that he's missing because his slow/low shot is being challenged more at the pro level?

 

[Natebishop3]

Career FG% = exactly .400. He raised his 3FG% over the course of his career and finished with a career 3FG% of .349. Not great, but not awful considering where he started. He was always a decent FT shooter (around .800 in most years), but what really saved him was his ability to drive and finish and his ability to post up smaller PGs. He certainly wasn't going to last as long as he did based on his jump shot alone.

Plus, he was also one of the best perimeter defenders of his generation (1st or 2nd team all defense NINE times).

I can understand the comparisons, but I don't think Ball will be as good as Kidd. His jump shot is even worse, and his defense isn't nearly as elite. I think his upside is somewhere between Ricky Rubio and Jason Kidd.

BNM

I don't think he's Kidd either. Kidd is just the only real superstar player that comes to mind who couldn't shoot a lick for most of his career.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Anybody know what's been going on with Markelle Fultz?

Would be great if all of the Ball comments could be moved to it's own thread. Of pages 7, 8, and 9, you made the only comment about Fultz. Not going to bother with reading further back.