Forum Game What if Dame and Steph Had Been on Each Other's Team?

[Stevenson]

We all know Dame and Steph are similar players. But I was wondering, what if Dame had been on the Warriors, and Steph had been on the Blazers?

Would Dame have 4 championships, would Steph have none?

I kind of think so. I'm not sure Dame would have 4, but he would have at least 1. And I doubt Steph would have any.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Then thats the teams they would've been on.

No, Dame would not have 4 rings; IMO. I don't think Steph has a ring if the Blazers draft him; but even a fraction of a percent is more likely than the 0 we know Dame has.

Dame is phenomenal, but he's not as good as Steph. Steph is a better passer, better at avoiding traps, better at driving, better without the ball, and a better shooter.

 

[Chris Craig]

We all know Dame and Steph are similar players. But I was wondering, what if Dame had been on the Warriors, and Steph had been on the Blazers?

Would Dame have 4 championships, would Steph have none?

I kind of think so. I'm not sure Dame would have 4, but he would have at least 1. And I doubt Steph would have any.

Dame might have 1. Steph none and hed be gone already.

 

[blazerkor]

I think that if Dame were on that team with KD that he's a much better and more vocal leader than Steph and therefore probably could have held that team together longer. I don't know if KD would have ever gone to that team though because they wouldn't be the dominant force they were with Steph pre KD.

Dame is just not as good as Steph. I do think that if he were playing in Kerr's system with Klay, Draymond, Barnes, Iggy, Bogut and the rest that they would have won at least one of the two championships that team won together. If the KD thing happened as a result Dame might even have more titles than Steph because I do think that Dame could lead the team better but I think that dynamic might also work because after the theoretical second title with KD it would be looked at as KD's team which also might keep KD around.

I sincerely doubt that Dame would have the MVPs and the teams wouldn't be as dominant as the GS teams with Steph have been.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Dame would have at least 1. Steph would have zero. Dame doesn’t move without the ball like Steph

 

[PDXFonz]

What if everything you ate tasted bubblegum flavored?

 

[wizenheimer]

since Curry has 4 championships, I think it's pretty safe to say Dame would have at least 2, if everything else had been the same

meanwhile Curry would have 0 as a Blazers and would have left Portland in 2017 as a free agent. He wouldn't have the loyalty to Portland Dame has and he wouldn't have had Dame's patience with Olshey

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Dame would have 6 championships.

 

[Mediocre Man]

What if everything you ate tasted bubblegum flavored?

You’d lose weight because you wouldn’t crave anything and get sick of eating the same thing over and over. Plus, the food would lose flavor after a short time

 

[Stevenson]

What if everything you ate tasted bubblegum flavored?

Ok, you find something better to discuss in the off-season then!

 

[Tince]

Dame might have 1. Steph none and hed be gone already.

And people here would still be saying "You can't win a championship with a small guard who isn't a good defender."

 

[STOMP]

And people here would still be saying "You can't win a championship with a small guard who isn't a good defender."

The oft repeated phrase here is/was "You can't compete for a championship with 2 small guards who aren't good defenders"

The W's traded away Ellis, Portland stuck with CJ until they went with Ant instead...

STOMP

 

[SlyPokerDog]

How many championships would we have if we had Steph instead of CJ?

 

[Strenuus]

How many championships would we have if we had Steph instead of CJ?

-1 because everyone would gaslight that there's no possible way they did win one with 2 guards.

 

[Tince]

The oft repeated phrase here is/was "You can't compete for a championship with 2 small guards who aren't good defenders"

The W's traded away Ellis, Portland stuck with CJ until they went with Ant instead...

STOMP

I get what you're saying, but obviously it's far too simplistic.

Had the Blazers traded CJ for a solid center, that wouldn't have been near enough. Golden St had multiple 3/D or playmaker/D guys around Steph. I'm not sure getting rid of Ellis was as big of a part of their championship run as having Klay/Green/Iggy/KD.

 

[Strenuus]

I get what you're saying, but obviously it's far too simplistic.

Had the Blazers traded CJ for a solid center, that wouldn't have been near enough. Golden St had multiple 3/D or playmaker/D guys around Steph. I'm not sure getting rid of Ellis was as big of a part of their championship run as having Klay/Green/Iggy/KD.

True, but trading away the wrong one would have been catastrophic and KD probably doesn't go to GS. So it's just klay and Draymond with Ellis and that doesn't seem as potent.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

True, but trading away the wrong one would have been catastrophic and KD probably doesn't go to GS. So it's just klay and Draymond with Ellis and that doesn't seem as potent.

Iggy was awesome at the start of the Warriors run. Heck, he won finals MVP. Barnes was a very good starter too. Livingston was one of the best bench players in the league. They lost all that depth getting Durant.

 

[Tince]

True, but trading away the wrong one would have been catastrophic and KD probably doesn't go to GS. So it's just klay and Draymond with Ellis and that doesn't seem as potent.

It's possible, who knows!

 

[Strenuus]

Iggy was awesome at the start of the Warriors run. Heck, he won finals MVP. Barnes was a very good starter too. Livingston was one of the best bench players in the league. They lost all that depth getting Durant.

I still think without curry they don't get that far. Ellis surely doesn't help.

 

[tykendo]

Then thats the teams they would've been on.

No, Dame would not have 4 rings; IMO. I don't think Steph has a ring if the Blazers draft him; but even a fraction of a percent is more likely than the 0 we know Dame has.

Dame is phenomenal, but he's not as good as Steph. Steph is a better passer, better at avoiding traps, better at driving, better without the ball, and a better shooter.

Steph is NOT! a better passer.

 

[tykendo]

The fact that Dame has averaged more assist per game career wise, with lesser talent, and certainly poorer shooters around him , makes that even more amazing.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Steph is NOT! a better passer.

Assists don’t = better passer. Steph moves the ball quicker

 

[Shaboid]

Assists don’t = better passer. Steph moves the ball quicker

I don't disagree with the first part. I would just add that GS as a whole moves the ball faster and has for what, a decade now?

 

[Mediocre Man]

I don't disagree with the first part. I would just add that GS as a whole moves the ball faster and has for what, a decade now?

Yes, but would they with Dame? Not a condemnation, but a serious question. Dame is much more ball dominant than Steph

 

[Shaboid]

Yes, but would they with Dame? Not a condemnation, but a serious question. Dame is much more ball dominant than Steph

As with this entire thread, it's hard to say. I imagine it has more to do with Kerr vs. Stotts and Chauncey than anything else.

 

[STOMP]

Iggy was awesome at the start of the Warriors run. Heck, he won finals MVP. Barnes was a very good starter too. Livingston was one of the best bench players in the league. They lost all that depth getting Durant.

sorry no. Barnes was a casualty to attain KD, but they didn't lose Livingston or Iguadala. Heck, Iggy was one of the guys who famously met with Kevin in the Hamptons to convince him to go to GS

STOMP

 

[Mediocre Man]

As with this entire thread, it's hard to say. I imagine it has more to do with Kerr vs. Stotts and Chauncey than anything else.

Chauncey is all about ball movement….or said he was

 

[wizenheimer]

Yes, but would they with Dame? Not a condemnation, but a serious question. Dame is much more ball dominant than Steph

you're confusing cause and effect in my view. Dame only "dominates" the ball more because he has to create a lot more of his own offense, and the team's offense as well. Curry has had the massive benefit of playing with much better passers than Dame has ever played with.

since the Aldridge/Dame team fell apart prior to the 2015-16 season, compare Dame's year-to-year usage rates to Curry's:

Dame:

31.3
31.5
30.6
29.3
30.3
31.4
29.3
33.8

Curry:

32.6
30.1
31.0
30.4
33.6
34.8
30.8
31.0

Dame has only had 1 season when he posted a usage rate over 31.5%. Curry has done it 3 times. Dame 'averaged' a usage rate of 30.9%. Curry averaged 31.8%. Dame dribbles more, but Curry uses a higher rate of his team's possessions. In fact, Dame doesn't just dominate the ball (as you describe it) to create his own offense. He does so to create his team's offense too. Curry has routinely averaged around 21% of his team's total assists. Meanwhile, Dame has averaged around 33-35% of his team's assists, and 39% in one season (2019-20). If Dame is truly more ball-dominant it's because he's never played with great talent or good passers

something else too: since that 2015-16 season, 5 different times Curry has had assisted FG rates OVER 50% and didn't have a single season under 45%. Meanwhile Dame has had 6 seasons when his assisted FG rate has been under 3o%, including a career low of 18% in 2019-20. His highest assisted FG rate was under 32%. In other words, Curry has had the major advantage of his team being talented enough to create half of his offense for him. Dame's teams have created around a quarter of his offense for him. The rest he had to create for himself and he did so while being the main focus of opposing defenses, AND being about the only player who could consistently facilitate offense for his teammates

Golden State's offense was based upon the team passing. Portland's was based upon Dame dribbling and probing because the fucking GM was too incompetent to build a complementary roster around Dame

the point being that just saying "Dame is more ball dominate" is a statement so lacking in context it's essentially meaningless

 

[Mediocre Man]

you're confusing cause and effect in my view. Dame only "dominates" the ball more because he has to create a lot more of his own offense, and the team's offense as well. Curry has had the massive benefit of playing with much better passers than Dame has ever played with.

since the Aldridge/Dame team fell apart prior to the 2015-16 season, compare Dame's year-to-year usage rates to Curry's:

Dame:

31.3
31.5
30.6
29.3
30.3
31.4
29.3
33.8

Curry:

32.6
30.1
31.0
30.4
33.6
34.8
30.8
31.0

Dame has only had 1 season when he posted a usage rate over 31.5%. Curry has done it 3 times. Dame 'averaged' a usage rate of 30.9%. Curry averaged 31.8%. Dame dribbles more, but Curry uses a higher rate of his team's possessions. In fact, Dame doesn't just dominate the ball (as you describe it) to create his own offense. He does so to create his team's offense too. Curry has routinely averaged around 21% of his team's total assists. Meanwhile, Dame has averaged around 33-35% of his team's assists, and 39% in one season (2019-20). If Dame is truly more ball-dominant it's because he's never played with great talent or good passers

something else too: since that 2015-16 season, 5 different times Curry has had assisted FG rates OVER 50% and didn't have a single season under 45%. Meanwhile Dame has had 6 seasons when his assisted FG rate has been under 3o%, including a career low of 18% in 2019-20. His highest assisted FG rate was under 32%. In other words, Curry has had the major advantage of his team being talented enough to create half of his offense for him. Dame's teams have created around a quarter of his offense for him. The rest he had to create for himself and he did so while being the main focus of opposing defenses, AND being about the only player who could consistently facilitate offense for his teammates

Golden State's offense was based upon the team passing. Portland's was based upon Dame dribbling and probing because the fucking GM was too incompetent to build a complementary roster around Dame

the point being that just saying "Dame is more ball dominate" is a statement so lacking in context it's essentially meaningless

It’s all anyone has to go by. Dame dribbles while Curry runs off screens and moves the ball

 

[wizenheimer]

It’s all anyone has to go by. Dame dribbles while Curry runs off screens and moves the ball

maybe it's all you have to go by, but I think I was really clear in saying it's not all I have to go by