What if we trade nobody? (4 Viewers)

[Whyachi]

Doesn't look like we can replace the GM with AI anytime soon.

What trades should the Portland Trail Blazers make?


The Portland Trail Blazers are currently in a rebuilding phase after trading Damian Lillard in the offseason. Deciding what trades they should make depends on their long-term goals and their assessment of the current roster. Here are some potential approaches and trade ideas:

Full Rebuild:

• Goal: Acquire young talent and draft picks to build a contender for the future.
  
  
• Trades: Focus on moving veterans like Josh Hart, Jusuf Nurkic, and Jerami Grant for draft picks and young players with upside.
  • Example: Trade Josh Hart to the New York Knicks for a protected first-round pick and Immanuel Quickley.
  • Example: Trade Jusuf Nurkic to the Toronto Raptors for a protected first-round pick and Chris Boucher.

Competing for Playoff Spot:

• Goal: Remain competitive in the short term while developing young talent.
  
  
• Trades: Acquire win-now pieces that fit well with the young core but don't sacrifice future assets.
  • Example: Trade Anfernee Simons and a second-round pick for Malcolm Brogdon from the Indiana Pacers.
  • Example: Trade a protected first-round pick for a veteran wing like Jae Crowder from the Phoenix Suns.

Develop the Young Core:

• Goal: Focus on maximizing the development of Scoot Henderson, Anfernee Simons, and Shaedon Sharpe.
• Trades: Stand pat and avoid making any major moves that could disrupt the team's chemistry.

Ultimately, the decision of what trades to make lies with the Portland Trail Blazers' front office. They will need to carefully consider their goals, the value of their current players, and the available trade options before making any moves.

Here are some additional factors to consider:

• Salary cap situation: The Blazers have some flexibility under the cap, which could allow them to take on larger contracts in trades.
• Draft position: If the Blazers are projected to have a high draft pick, they may be less inclined to trade future assets.
• Free agency: The Blazers could also choose to wait until free agency to add new players.

I cannot make specific recommendations on which trades the Blazers should make as the NBA landscape is constantly changing and the best course of action depends on many factors. However, I hope this information helps you understand the different approaches the Blazers could take and the factors they need to consider.

https://bard.google.com/

the robots think Jae Crowder can still ball. Obviously the T-1000's didn't watch the Blazers/Bucks game. Scoot and Duop had Crowder playing flat footed, then retrieving the ball from the net. Followed by lightly jogging into bricked 3 pointers.

a Udonis Haslem motivational huddle therapist could be in Crowder's future? Having Jae actively participating against younger & faster bench guys is not helping the Bucks.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

One of the things you need to remember is that generative AI, at the moment, has a big issue - which is that it is frozen in time for when it was last built. You can not continuously update the data-model that was already built, you need a brand new training session.

That's why they tell you what the training date is for each model. For example, ChatGPT 4 cut-off day is January 2022. So, any new data since is not part of the training model.

As to why the lag so much? I have been to a couple of lectures with people that work or worked there and in other AI companies, at the moment, the cost to train a large scale LLM model like ChatGPT is in the tens of millions of dollars. IIRC, the cost to train ChatGPT 4 was around $50 million USD...

We have been doing our own machine learning work for some time now on a much smaller scale for a very specific application - and we are basically updating our model about once a year, it just costs a lot of money.

So you're saying it was too expensive for the Blazers to update Dame's defense programming...

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

I disagree. We do not have enough young prospects, IMO.

We still need more talent. We can bring in mentors later. If we can improve talent wise I hope we trade Brogdon.

We have picks to continue to search for that needed talent(which I was including in young prospects). So you want to trade a talented Brogdon for more talent? The reason most want to trade him is to improve the tank. How does trading him for improved talent do that?

Between all our current young guys and our picks coming up, I think that's enough prospects for the moment.

Veteran stability is soo undervalued around here. I just don't get it.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I disagree. We do not have enough young prospects, IMO.

We still need more talent. We can bring in mentors later. If we can improve talent wise I hope we trade Brogdon.

That may be a problem, I am not sure Brogdon will bring back more talent where we need help. He will bring back a future late 1st at best. Not a young wing. Which is not horrible if the goal is to feel good about the final return for Dame.

I wonder if we need to add a 1st to get a young wing that we may covet?

 

[Phatguysrule]

We have picks to continue to search for that needed talent(which I was including in young prospects). So you want to trade a talented Brogdon for more talent? The reason most want to trade him is to improve the tank. How does trading him for improved talent do that?

Between all our current young guys and our picks coming up, I think that's enough prospects for the moment.

Veteran stability is soo undervalued around here. I just don't get it.

If we get a more talented, younger player and that helps us win that's fine.

Ideally we'd use those future picks to help build on an already competing team.

I'm not really interested in waiting until 2028 to start getting better.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Tell Lebron we're drafting Bronny with our 1st pick.

Lebron then demands to be traded to Portland.

We trade Grant for Lebron.

Then we don't draft Bronny.

We trade Lebron to whichever team that does draft Bronny for 3 1st rnd draft picks.

 

[andalusian]

So you're saying it was too expensive for the Blazers to update Dame's defense programming...

No disrespect to Dame's defensive prowess, but I don't think any amount of money could have solved that issue. We see it now when he plays next to a defensive beast and good drop-coverage bigs to protect his back in Milwaukee...

Also, my bad for trying to give a proper answer to a joke question...

 

[Phatguysrule]

That may be a problem, I am not sure Brogdon will bring back more talent where we need help. He will bring back a future late 1st at best. Not a young wing. Which is not horrible if the goal is to feel good about the final return for Dame.

I wonder if we need to add a 1st to get a young wing that we may covet?

I'd take a good pick this or next year in exchange for Brogdon. Something like the Warriors pick.

I don't expect us to have Brogdon more than a year or so, and his max value is right now.

 

[blazerkor]

Tell Lebron we're drafting Bronny with our 1st pick.

Lebron then demands to be traded to Portland.

We trade Grant for Lebron.

Then we don't draft Bronny.

We trade Lebron to whichever team that does draft Bronny for 3 1st rnd draft picks.

 

[e_blazer]

Malcolm has had a ton of injuries throughout his career but he doesn't have anything that comes close to Rob Williams's degenerating knees. The guy just gets dinged up a lot but I don't think he has the red flags of Rob.

That being said, I think people are missing the point. I don't think on a rebuilding roster there is a reason to keep guys who make significant contributions as starters to regular season and playoff wins unless you think their value is going to be on the rise. Neither Malcolm or Jerami are ascending players in the league, they're well into their prime. If both aren't traded it brings up serious questions about what we're doing here. Are we going to sit these guys to maintain our draft position? How does that make sense with two guys that will be on the wrong side of 30?

Do people actually think there is no value out there for two guys like Jerami and Malcolm who have shown that they are two way starting level players... difference makers on any playoff team. They will get any team with championship aspirations more wins/less losses in the playoffs.

The phrase "on a rebuilding roster" can have a few flavors as to what it means. Fans opinions seem to follow one of two basic paths:
1. Trade vets whose skills may result in too many wins and take too much playing time for draft picks and expendable guys on short contracts. Stick in the lottery long enough to assemble enough young talent to eventually contend.
2. Draft a few young guys with as much talent as possible, but keep some quality vets around because they're useful in developing the rookies and it can be hard to replace them in small market destinations like Portland.
My take from reading the forum is that the fans in these two groups don't often give the opposing viewpoint much credence. Rebuilds can go on for decades if the right draft picks aren't made. Many fans don't have the stomach for watching their team stink for years. Quitting the lottery before enough talent is obtained can result in continual mediocrity. Some view mediocrity as a bigger failure than continually being in the lottery seeking that next big talent.

I think we fans can throw around comments about the GM and staff not knowing what they're doing if they don't move in the direction that we see is the correct one. We have the luxury of not having any real skin in the game. If the owners don't like losing money and don't see progress being made, GMs are shown the door pretty quickly and the next slick talker moves in.

I've posted enough here that I think most of you know that I tend to support the second option. I think that there is value in guys like Brogdon and Grant being on the team to assist in developing young players and to keep fan interest up by providing at least occasional enjoyable wins against better teams. I think that when the decision is made that sufficient young talent has been acquired, having established vets already on the roster can shorten the time to contention. I guess only Cronin and his staff know how they're going to play this trade deadline situation. I just hope that if the decision is to move any of the vets, the return is something that helps in getting out of the rebuild mode sooner rather than later.

 

[Bif]

I think or hope Cronin is trying for 2025 or later. He’s not traded yet because all of the dumb GM’s have been fleeced of their number ones and the pickings are slim. Portland doesn’t need anything more in what is considered a weak 2024 draft.
First lightly protected offer of 2025 and later plus salary filler, he’s gone. The reason he is still here, is because no one has offered that and Cronin is not going to take a late first or a couple seconds in next year draft

 

[wizenheimer]

The thing that makes me hesitate is the small guard issue the Blazers have in trying to play a 3 guard lineup and end up with Ant and Scoot together when Shae is out. It seems to me that a 4 guard lineup with Malcolm solves that problem.

so...you're saying Portland has a small guard issue and that generates concerns about Portland trading their biggest and most versatile guard. That's actually a solid concern....except for the reality that wins don't matter this season (and next season AFAIC) and in fact can validly be viewed as counter to Portland's future

but here's the thing: you rightly point out the problems with playing Ant and Scoot together. Brogdon and Scoot don't have those problems. I've seen pretty clearly that Ant and Sharpe have plenty of issues when they play together. Brogdon and Sharpe don't have those issues

maybe instead of Portland shopping their biggest most versatile two-way guard they should be shopping their smallest least versatile one-way guard

that clearly won't happen so that loops back around to Brogdon and balancing the scale of trade-him or don't. I don't see any compelling reasons for the don't. By the way, Thybulle can play guard in a 4-guard rotation

 

[blazerkor]

I think or hope Cronin is trying for 2025 or later. He’s not traded yet because all of the dumb GM’s have been fleeced of their number ones and the pickings are slim. Portland doesn’t need anything more in what is considered a weak 2024 draft.
First lightly protected offer of 2025 and later plus salary filler, he’s gone. The reason he is still here, is because no one has offered that and Cronin is not going to take a late first or a couple seconds in next year draft

Or there are multiple offers and Joe is negotiating for less protections or more compensation.

 

[e_blazer]

so...you're saying Portland has a small guard issue and that generates concerns about Portland trading their biggest and most versatile guard. That's actually a solid concern....except for the reality that wins don't matter this season (and next season AFAIC) and in fact can validly be viewed as counter to Portland's future

but here's the thing: you rightly point out the problems with playing Ant and Scoot together. Brogdon and Scoot don't have those problems. I've seen pretty clearly that Ant and Sharpe have plenty of issues when they play together. Brogdon and Sharpe don't have those issues

maybe instead of Portland shopping their biggest most versatile two-way guard they should be shopping their smallest least versatile one-way guard

that clearly won't happen so that loops back around to Brogdon and balancing the scale of trade-him or don't. I don't see any compelling reasons for the don't. By the way, Thybulle can play guard in a 4-guard rotation

Now, why am I not surprised that you routed my post around to the notion that Ant needs to go. I thought about throwing that whole rotten banana into my post, but decided it would get in the way of the discussion that I most want to have: For you in the lottery-loving club, when does the end to that quest for more young talent come to an end? I've seen too many teams get stuck in the lottery loop for too long to have faith in it as the sole means of rebuilding the Blazers.

Edit: And wins always mean something...to me. I enjoy the heck out of every fricking one of them.

 

[wizenheimer]

Would be beyond idiotic to keep him on this roster and perfectly emblematic of the directionless bullshit we have observed with this franchise for decades.

I wouldn't call it directionless even though it seems like that. The direction has been apparent for quite a while now and that direction is dictated by the Vulcans in keeping the Blazers a cash cow. Other than that, I think Jody & the Vulcans are effectively ambivalent, and don't give a shit about what Blazer fans would like as long as they keep selling tickets as the only pro option in town

I've been about 80% convinced that Cronin was not going to do anything significant at this trade deadline. He won't go over the damn tax line, that's certaint. That number has risen to 85% but I'm really hoping I'm wrong

what pisses me off is that the Portland front office essentially maneuvered the franchise player into demanding a trade with the cover of there was 'almost-no-way' to build a contender around him. Well, there's even less than almost-no-way to build a contender around Brogdon (or any of the vets) but the FO kind of seems fine with running out the clock on those guys

 

[blazerkor]

I wouldn't call it directionless even though it seems like that. The direction has been apparent for quite a while now and that direction is dictated by the Vulcans in keeping the Blazers a cash cow. Other than that, I think Jody & the Vulcans are effectively ambivalent, and don't give a shit about what Blazer fans would like as long as they keep selling tickets as the only pro option in town

I've been about 80% convinced that Cronin was not going to do anything significant at this trade deadline. He won't go over the damn tax line, that's certaint. That number has risen to 85% but I'm really hoping I'm wrong

what pisses me off is that the Portland front office essentially maneuvered the franchise player into demanding a trade with the cover of there was 'almost-no-way' to build a contender around him. Well, there's even less than almost-no-way to build a contender around Brogdon (or any of the vets) but the FO kind of seems fine with running out the clock on those guys

I'm hoping that's just posturing. Even though we've seen rumors that Joe isn't interested in moving Malcolm or Jerami it hasn't stopped the reports from other teams' beat writers that they're interested. So here's to hoping Joe does the thing that makes sense not the thing he's been leaking to the media both locally and nationally.

 

[wizenheimer]

Now, why am I not surprised that you routed my post around to the notion that Ant needs to go. I thought about throwing that whole rotten banana into my post, but decided it would get in the way of the discussion that I most want to have: For you in the lottery-loving club, when does the end to that quest for more young talent come to an end? I've seen too many teams get stuck in the lottery loop for too long to have faith in it as the sole means of rebuilding the Blazers.
.

c'mon now....you were the one that said "small guards" and pointed out that Ant+Scoot doesn't work. I didn't open those doors this time. You invited me for drinks at that happy hour

the Blazers have a .313 winning percentage this year and Brogdon is 31 with an extensive injury history and 2 years left on his deal. Keeping him is not going to impact how long Portland repeats in the lottery; not for a second. What Portland might trade him for could impact that though, however unlikely that is

and as for how long Portland spends in the lottery, it's my view that anybody expecting it would be less than 4-5 years after trading away Dame was delusional. Blazers didn't get any immediate assets that pointed the team's trajectory upward as much as losing Dame pointed it downward. All the potentially great draft capital doesn't arrive till 2028. That's more than 4 years from now and any gold struck in 2028 probably won't be paying good dividends till 2030

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm hoping that's just posturing. Even though we've seen rumors that Joe isn't interested in moving Malcolm or Jerami it hasn't stopped the reports from other teams' beat writers that they're interested. So here's to hoping Joe does the thing that makes sense not the thing he's been leaking to the media both locally and nationally.

he has made substantial moves in his first two trade deadlines. Trading away CJ, Powell, RoCo, Nance, Payton, and Hart is notable. And the Payton trade showed he was willing to correct mistakes

so I hope you're right. I'm just concerned about inertia created by the Seattle mothership

 

[KingSpeed]

Tell Lebron we're drafting Bronny with our 1st pick.

Lebron then demands to be traded to Portland.

We trade Grant for Lebron.

Then we don't draft Bronny.

We trade Lebron to whichever team that does draft Bronny for 3 1st rnd draft picks.

And if takes months, it takes months.

 

[e_blazer]

c'mon now....you were the one that said "small guards" and pointed out that Ant+Scoot doesn't work. I didn't open those doors this time. You invited me for drinks at that happy hour

the Blazers have a .313 winning percentage this year and Brogdon is 31 with an extensive injury history and 2 years left on his deal. Keeping him is not going to impact how long Portland repeats in the lottery; not for a second. What Portland might trade him for could impact that though, however unlikely that is

and as for how long Portland spends in the lottery, it's my view that anybody expecting it would be less than 4-5 years after trading away Dame was delusional. Blazers didn't get any immediate assets that pointed the team's trajectory upward as much as losing Dame pointed it downward. All the potentially great draft capital doesn't arrive till 2028. That's more than 4 years from now and any gold struck in 2028 probably won't be paying good dividends till 2030

2030? Yippee! I know you're about the same age as I am. Mortality stats being what they are, I make it about 50-50 if we ever get to see a winning season again under your plan. The Blazers already have the better of their own or Milwaukee's first round pick in 2030. Pretty good odds one of those will be a lottery pick.

 

[Pinwheel1]

One thing I am not worried about with our guards is that they are too small without Brogdon. Smaller yes, but not small.

Scoot is solidly built with a +7" wing span. I have no worries that he can cover most SGs. Plus let's not forget we still have Thybulle at guard and his possible replacement in Rupert.

 

[e_blazer]

One thing I am not worried about with our guards is that they are too small without Brogdon. Smaller yes, but not small.

Scoot is solidly built with a +7" wing span. I have no worries that he can cover most SGs. Plus let's not forget we still have Thybulle at guard and his possible replacement in Rupert.

Those are valid points. Truth be told, I don't really object to trading Brogdon as long as the return is at least a first rounder. Preferably in next year's draft.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't see any point in keeping Brogdon or Williams.

I'm fine with keeping Grant for now.

 

[wizenheimer]

2030? Yippee! I know you're about the same age as I am. Mortality stats being what they are, I make it about 50-50 if we ever get to see a winning season again under your plan. The Blazers already have the better of their own or Milwaukee's first round pick in 2030. Pretty good odds one of those will be a lottery pick.

it's not my plan and it's not what I wanted. My plan was to fire Olshey's arrogant ass 8 years ago and actually try and build a contender around Dame instead of wasting his talent and his prime

and again: I like Brogdon but I know that keeping him has no bearing on how long Portland is in the lottery. None. That die has been cast. The asset(s) Portland get for trading him might have an impact though

 

[blazerkor]

it's not my plan and it's not what I wanted. My plan was to fire Olshey's arrogant ass 8 years ago and actually try and build a contender around Dame instead of wasting his talent and his prime

and again: I like Brogdon but I know that keeping him has no bearing on how long Portland is in the lottery. None. That die has been cast. The asset(s) Portland get for trading him might have an impact though

Yeah, for me the idea isn't to stockpile picks in order to use all of them but so when we do have this supposedly scary situation people are whining about of needing to get up to the salary floor we can use multiple future firsts to get someone who makes money and can contribute on the Scoot/Shaedon timeline. Also we can use the picks to move anywhere we might want in a draft to get a guy we value.

In a rebuild it's about having the most options possible to draft the players you think you can hit on and draft enough players that the misses won't hurt the future. Also it's about having the flexibility and draft capital to pounce if a young star ends up on the block.

 

[wizenheimer]

Yeah, for me the idea isn't to stockpile picks in order to use all of them but so when we do have this supposedly scary situation people are whining about of needing to get up to the salary floor we can use multiple future firsts to get someone who makes money and can contribute on the Scoot/Shaedon timeline. Also we can use the picks to move anywhere we might want in a draft to get a guy we value.

In a rebuild it's about having the most options possible to draft the players you think you can hit on and draft enough players that the misses won't hurt the future. Also it's about having the flexibility and draft capital to pounce if a young star ends up on the block.

it's about maximizing opportunities

OKC is the most often mentioned template; probably because their rebuild has only taken 4-5 years. Now, OKC got SGA in the trade of their superstar, so that's a major leg up the ladder that Portland can't emulate so expecting an OKC time-frame seems unrealistic

but OKC added draft capital in trades at the same time they were maximizing the reach of their own draft picks. They added Jalen Williams and Tre Mann with picks they got in trades (and still have LAC's 2024+2026 first's). And they have added Josh Giddey and Chet Holmgren with their high lottery picks

in other words, they have 4 of 5 long-term starters from their rebuild. They arguably have fucked up too because they could have had Jaime Jaquez but traded him away...for another first

one think OKC DID NOT do is fuck around and straddle a fence by keeping 30-31 year old players like Brogdon and Grant

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

If we get a more talented, younger player and that helps us win that's fine.

Ideally we'd use those future picks to help build on an already competing team.

I'm not really interested in waiting until 2028 to start getting better.

Who is giving up a more talented, younger player?

Would you give up a younger, more talented player for an older less talented player?

This sounds like more fantasy land to me, im sorry.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Who is giving up a more talented, younger player?

Would you give up a younger, more talented player for an older less talented player?

This sounds like more fantasy land to me, im sorry.

A draft pick for next season would work. Or if it's the right player, we could include a pick.

There are a ton of ways to skin a cat. Right now we need talent more than we need anything else.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

A draft pick for next season would work. Or if it's the right player, we could include a pick.

There are a ton of ways to skin a cat. Right now we need talent more than we need anything else.

There obviously ARENT a ton of ways to skin a cat or we would have multiple skinless cats hanging in the rafters. Trading away proven talent for potential talent is not a way in my opinion. Again. Trade him and a pick or two for an all star? sure. Trade him for picks and potential?
No thanks.

Malcom is glue. Contenders need glue.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

A draft pick for next season would work. Or if it's the right player, we could include a pick.

There are a ton of ways to skin a cat. Right now we need talent more than we need anything else.

Can you name the right player?