What is Dame's actual value?

[BBert]

Fentress said on his pod:

4 firsts
One good young player

Not exactly sure where that good young player is going to come from.

How about 3 unprotected firsts over the next two drafts, an unprotected first no later than 2028, one lottery quality player from one of the previous 3 drafts, one quality vet.

Don't ask me who. That's not my job.

 

[blazerfan11]

I assume Dame can be flipped by his new team if things don't work out.

 

[barfo]

It's worse. Because of all he has said. This was his actual quote:

I think there is a misunderstanding here. By 'go down swinging', he was referring to what he is planning to do at Miami sex clubs.

barfo

 

[Sloth]

Dame is starting to piss me off tbh and I never thought I would say that about him.Not about catering to him, its about getting good value back to help the future of the team he says he wants to leave.

 

[BBert]

I assume Dame can be flipped by his new team if things don't work out.

Watch them get more than we got.

 

[PCmor7]

I wonder who convinced Dame this was a good look or wouldn’t matter? This is KD/Kyrie level shit. Blows my mind.

This is worse. KD and Kyrie didn't build a career off the reputation Dame did. They were all business from the start, and it wasn't far into their careers before fans and NBA people could see what they were about. TBH, Kyrie, just from personal interaction a few years ago, is a better guy than he comes off (how couldn't he be?).

 

[wizenheimer]

By waiting. Multi team

I see no evidence the wait will generate the kind of return where the Blazers get better than 4 first round picks and a good young player. What if Dame and his agent don't back off their insistence on Miami? What if this turns extremely ugly and it sure looks like it could?

 

[PCmor7]

IIRC, Durant threatened to leave OKC pretty early into his stay there because he didn't like something the newspapers wrote about him.

 

[andalusian]

I don't think he said those things in bad faith. I don't know for sure but I doubt he feels like he's going back on what he said. He must feel like the team switched up on him. I don't like how this is being handled at all but I don't throw out an eleven year track record based on one week, where we have two cryptic texts from Dame. Like I said, I don't like the way it's being handled and Dame is letting it be handled this way but for now this doesn't make me think he wasn't the guy we thought he was and most likely I think he still is that guy.

We do not know what has been said between Dame and the team behind closed doors. So we don't know how deep Dame might feel the betrayal goes. Everyone is free to speculate and have an opinion based on that speculation but everyone in here acting so certain about who the bad guy is in this situation is a little ridiculous to me because it's all based on speculation.

You are right, We do not know what happens behind the scenes, but I know what was said publicly and what the actions are, so I am absolutely choosing to base my assessment based on what is available to me.

Given what I do know and the actions I observe I think he meant what he said about loyalty. We were stupid enough not to understand that it was for getting the max and his friends and not for the team and the fans. Harsh, but until I see a different behavior, that's where I am at.

 

[PCmor7]

I see no evidence the wait will generate the kind of return where the Blazers get better than 4 first round picks and a good young player. What if Dame and his agent don't back off their insistence on Miami? What if this turns extremely ugly and it sure looks like it could?

Because Miami has so much to lose.

Unless they can get the Blazers to take almost nothing for Dame, the Heat are going to have to replenish a roster and playing rotation. Every day, more and more players that could help them compete are signing with other teams. If they hold off too long to get Dame, sure, they'll have him, Bam and Butler, but they also might be signing Keljin Blevins to fill out the team. They won't have the talent on the roster to challenge for a championship this year, and, next year, Dame and Butler are a year older.

The Heat have more to lose than the Blazers. They need an imminent deal.

 

[BrianFromWA]

That Jazz/timberwolves trade may be the worst one I've ever seen. Good god. Just seeing it in print, how does any rational person sign off on that?

One podcast I listened to recently (may have been Russillo) said something to the effect of "If you were just told the trade was Walker Kessler straight up for Gobert, that would be a pretty decent deal. All that other stuff is just dunking on MIN."

 

[maxiep]

It's worse. Because of all he has said. This was his actual quote:

That quote did not age well.

 

[wizenheimer]

Because Miami has so much to lose.

Unless they can get the Blazers to take almost nothing for Dame, the Heat are going to have to replenish a roster and playing rotation. Every day, more and more players that could help them compete are signing with other teams. If they hold off too long to get Dame, sure, they'll have him, Bam and Butler, but they also might be signing Keljin Blevins to fill out the team. They won't have the talent on the roster to challenge for a championship this year, and, next year, Dame and Butler are a year older.

The Heat have more to lose than the Blazers. They need an imminent deal.

well, that doesn't really connect. The Heat have more to lose, OK. But they don't have more value to throw into the deal. Tyler Herro's value is not going to increase as Miami's situation worsens. This trade going thru is not going to pivot on Jaquez or Caleb Martin. Those are minor assets. Brooklyn's not going to kick in more for Herro in September than they would now; neither will the Spurs or any other team that might want Herro. In fact, if it's seen as Miami getting a little desperate, their leverage decreases and it's that leverage that is expected to generate those extra assets Portland needs

there's only one way the offers get better and that's if Dame and his agent climb down off the Miami or Bust mountain they're camped on

I'm also thinking that a significant component of Dame's value 2 weeks ago was intangibles. His leadership, character, and integrity that were a major part of his brand. He's destroyed that in the last 10 days and if a team was thinking of him as a valuable add 2 weeks ago, they are now going to be wondering: "he pulled this shit once, he could pull it again"

 

[PCmor7]

well, that doesn't really connect. The Heat have more to lose, OK. But they don't have more value to throw into the deal. Tyler Herro's value is not going to increase as Miami's situation worsens. This trade going thru is not going to pivot on Jaquez or Caleb Martin. Those are minor assets. Brooklyn's not going to kick in more for Herro in September than they would now; neither will the Spurs or any other team that might want Herro. In fact, if it's seen as Miami getting a little desperate, their leverage decreases and it's that leverage that is expected to generate those extra assets Portland needs

there's only one way the offers get better and that's if Dame and his agent climb down off the Miami or Bust mountain they're camped on

I'm also thinking that a significant component of Dame's value 2 weeks ago was intangibles. His leadership, character, and integrity that were a major part of his brand. He's destroyed that in the last 10 days and if a team was thinking of him as a valuable add 2 weeks ago, they are now going to be wondering: "he pulled this shit once, he could pull it again"

What the Heat have to offer the Blazers directly right now doesn't matter one bit. The Blazers are not obligated to deal Dame to the Heat or anyone for that matter. If Dame doesn't play, it doesn't hurt the Blazers much at this point -- he's not playing for the Blazers anyway. If Dame doesn't play for the Heat? They've got two really good players, probably still have Herro, but they still have to rebuild their rotation while trying to compete.

With Dame, they're part of a four-team horserace for Eastern supremacy. Without Dame? They had to win the play-in to make the playoffs. They're realistically on par with teams like the Knicks, Cavs, Nets and Hawks, a notch below the Celtics, Sixers and Bucks unless they get lightning in a bottle again.

The Heat need to find a way to get this done. The Blazers only have to help them if they feel charitable. After Dame's antics, I wouldn't feel charitable anymore.

 

[blazerfan11]

One podcast I listened to recently (may have been Russillo) said something to the effect of "If you were just told the trade was Walker Kessler straight up for Gobert, that would be a pretty decent deal. All that other stuff is just dunking on MIN."

Nobody knew that at the time though.
That's in retrospect.

 

[blazerfan11]

What the Heat have to offer the Blazers directly right now doesn't matter one bit. The Blazers are not obligated to deal Dame to the Heat or anyone for that matter. If Dame doesn't play, it doesn't hurt the Blazers much at this point -- he's not playing for the Blazers anyway. If Dame doesn't play for the Heat? They've got two really good players, probably still have Herro, but they still have to rebuild their rotation while trying to compete.

With Dame, they're part of a four-team horserace for Eastern supremacy. Without Dame? They had to win the play-in to make the playoffs. They're realistically on par with teams like the Knicks, Cavs, Nets and Hawks, a notch below the Celtics, Sixers and Bucks unless they get lightning in a bottle again.

The Heat need to find a way to get this done. The Blazers only have to help them if they feel charitable. After Dame's antics, I wouldn't feel charitable anymore.

It's possible Miami will never have enough.

 

[beast blazer]

Fentress said on his pod:

4 firsts
One good young player

Not exactly sure where that good young player is going to come from.

I'd do it and be done with it. The last 2 years of Dame's contract are probably seen as a net negative by most teams. I know they are by me, which is why I want out of his contract. If we don't trade him this year, it'll be very hard otherwise.

Take the picks and run. We'd also probably be getting Lowry for one year, which is fine. A good vet backup for Scoot.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Nobody knew that at the time though.

Not the Kessler part. But everyone on the planet, probably including Tm Connelly, knew it was a huge overpay and said so at the time. With the defense (I parodied earlier with the Riley/Ainge thing) of saying afterwards something like "No, you don't understand, I'm awesome at this. They totally wanted Jaden McDaniels, too---but I told them HECK NO! You'll take this package as-is and you'll like it!"

 

[Road Ratt]

Dame used to be worth a Dolla, he ain't worth 50 Cent now.

 

[Duckhook]

well, that doesn't really connect. The Heat have more to lose, OK. But they don't have more value to throw into the deal. Tyler Herro's value is not going to increase as Miami's situation worsens. This trade going thru is not going to pivot on Jaquez or Caleb Martin. Those are minor assets. Brooklyn's not going to kick in more for Herro in September than they would now; neither will the Spurs or any other team that might want Herro. In fact, if it's seen as Miami getting a little desperate, their leverage decreases and it's that leverage that is expected to generate those extra assets Portland needs

there's only one way the offers get better and that's if Dame and his agent climb down off the Miami or Bust mountain they're camped on

I'm also thinking that a significant component of Dame's value 2 weeks ago was intangibles. His leadership, character, and integrity that were a major part of his brand. He's destroyed that in the last 10 days and if a team was thinking of him as a valuable add 2 weeks ago, they are now going to be wondering: "he pulled this shit once, he could pull it again"

^^ THIS ^^

Dame's credibility, and everything that goes with his mystique is gone now that he's shown to be a little b#%( like the rest of the divas in this league. It's sad how quickly what you love about your franchise player is the very reason to despise him now. I'm coming across harsh but we're not talking about a couple bucks lost, but millions and this will indeed affect the value of the team. Of course winning is the most valuable component to a team's worth so hopefully we'll come out of this lack of a star malaise quickly with the youngins coming into their own as Blazers.

 

[blazerfan11]

Dame used to be worth a Dolla, he ain't worth 50 Cent now.

Pennies on the Dolla.

 

[Whyachi]

That Jazz/timberwolves trade may be the worst one I've ever seen. Good god. Just seeing it in print, how does any rational person sign off on that?

Minnesota recently released a video of their Front Office during the trade with Utah for Rudy Gobert.

 

[blazerfan11]

Not the Kessler part. But everyone on the planet, probably including Tm Connelly, knew it was a huge overpay and said so at the time. With the defense (I parodied earlier with the Riley/Ainge thing) of saying afterwards something like "No, you don't understand, I'm awesome at this. They totally wanted Jaden McDaniels, too---but I told them HECK NO! You'll take this package as-is and you'll like it!"

When you have one team outbidding another you can get a good deal back. I don't know if Minnesota outbid anyone, or if Utah was fine and dandy waiting it out.

 

[Natebishop3]

Does Dame have less value than we thought?

Or are teams scared off by his agent?

I'm surprised if Philly or Boston don't want him.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Great question

I honestly think 2 young players and 3ish picks is probably in the area. Dame is a great player, but Dame is also going to 33 years old. We were all talking about not wanting to trade too many picks and young players for Siakam or Paul George

 

[blazerkor]

Does Dame have less value than we thought?

Or are teams scared off by his agent?

I'm surprised if Philly or Boston don't want him.

It's been a week. We don't even know that those teams haven't made offers. Joe probably is gathering every bit of info he can and now with every GM in the league in Vegas he'll ratchet up his efforts. It wouldn't surprise me if a deal got done during SL but it also wouldn't surprise me if it took until September.

 

[maxiep]

Does Dame have less value than we thought?

Or are teams scared off by his agent?

I'm surprised if Philly or Boston don't want him.

To be fair, we don't really know who has offered what. The nice thing about Summer League is that lots of GMs are in one place and face-to-face negotiations can take place.

 

[Natebishop3]

To be fair, we don't really know who has offered what. The nice thing about Summer League is that lots of GMs are in one place and face-to-face negotiations can take place.

I can't picture Joe busting out some big dick energy and working out some deal. He strikes me as the kind of dude that lets deals come to him.

 

[blazerkor]

Great question

I honestly think 2 young players and 3ish picks is probably in the area. Dame is a great player, but Dame is also going to 33 years old. We were all talking about not wanting to trade too many picks and young players for Siakam or Paul George

I think a trade of Dame to Miami, Miami sending Herro to the Nets and us getting 4 future firsts (3 from Miami after they guarantee the 2026 pick to OKC by sending a second rounder and one from Brooklyn via Phoenix) Dinwiddie, Robinson, Jovic and Day'Ron Sharpe would make sense for us.

Hopefully we could flip Dinwiddie because I think he has value on the court for a team in win now mode.

 

[Phatguysrule]

This seems to be the main point of debate. I have been listening to any and all podcasts I can get my hands on over the past week or so.

Lowe and Hollinger think the Heat trade is fair.

Dame is almost 33. He's owed A LOT of money. He's a score-first point guard who doesn't play defense. That's the perception of Dame around the league. He's an amazing scorer, but he has his warts.

View attachment 56755

Stealing this part from @inconceivable

Cleveland get:
Donovan Mitchell

Jazz get:
Lauri Markkanen
Collin Sexton
Ochai Agbaji
3 unprotected FRPs (25, 27, and 29)
2 pick swaps (26 and 28)

------------

Suns get:
Kevin Durant
TJ Warren

Nets get:
Mikal Bridges
Cameron Johnson
Juan Pablo Vaulet
2023 first-round pick (fr Phoenix)
2025 first-round pick (fr Phoenix)
2027 first-round pick (fr Phoenix)
2028 first-round pick swap (fr Phoenix)
2028 second-round pick (fr Milwaukee)
2029 first-round pick (fr Phoenix
2029 second-round pick (fr Milwaukee)

Bucks get:
Jae Crowder

Pacers get:
George Hill
Serge Ibaka
Jordan Nwora
3 future 2nd-round picks (fr Milwaukee)
Cash considerations (from Brooklyn)

---------

Timberwolves get:
Rudy Gobert

Jazz get:
Malik Beasley
Patrick Beverley
Leandro Bolmaro
Walker Kessler (22nd pick in '22 Draft)
Jarred Vanderbilt
2023 first-round pick
2025 first-round pick
2026 pick swap
2027 first-round pick
2029 first-round pick

I don't think we can use the Gobert trade as any kind of template. Just throw that one out. I also don't think we can use the Durant trade. Dame is amazing but he's not Durant. I think the Mitchell trade is fair.

But how does the Miami offer compare to that Cleveland deal? Markkanen was pretty mediocre in Cleveland. 15 ppg and 6 rebounds per game? That's the center of the trade?

Lauri Markkanen = ???
Collin Sexton = Tyler Herro
Ochai Agbaji = garbage player
3 unprotected FRPs (25, 27, and 29)
2 pick swaps (26 and 28)

So really all we're missing from the Miami trade is a player comparable to Markkanen. If we get Ben Simmons, is that basically a similar reclamation project?

Trading Dame for Herro is stupid. Portland doesn't want him. I'd rather they take less value back for a better fit.

Miami doesn't have what Portland wants. Get another team involved so it makes sense for Portland or Dame can just stay.

Fuck Miami.