What is Needed Most?

[hasoos]

So he should add a vet just to make you feel better, even if they don't help the team? I can think of one deal, as mentioned above, that seemed reaosnable he didn't do. "Rumored deal" Of Wallace for Batum. What other vet deals were making us a much better team? When you are rebuilding, early on, what NEED was there for a vet? What vet was going to help?

Did I say even if they don't help the team? I feel like Herm Edwards of NFL fame with his line in the post game press conference "You play to win the game". You make moves to improve the team. They don't always pan out. You do your best.

Any trade that would have got a second fiddle scorer for Roy that worked well with him would pan out. Guys like Wallace, who you listd above are prime because he scores without a lot of plays being ran for him. Other players who I think would work good with Roy are Richard Hamilton because he plays well without the ball. I think Stephen Jackson although being a knucklehead, would have been a great fit next to Roy. He has shown in situations where strong team leadership is present he is not a problem. Basically the premise is this:

If Roy does not get help soon, he is going to get beat up and beat down and pissed off like Dwayne Wade is now(He is already beat up. He hasn't got pissed off yet.) . That is a fact. I don't care if the help comes from the draft, a deal, or a free agent signing, he needs help or his body is going to give out on him. Once we have given a player or two a chance to fit next to Roy and observed how it works out, we can determine once and for all if Roy is a player you can build a contender with. But it can't just be any joe shmoe. It has to be a legit Tier 2 Tier 3 player as I referred to above.

As for speculation about trades, it does not matter. With KP as GM, there is either A) Getting it done. Or B) Not getting it done. I can see where he wanted to be patient and see if some guys panned out. But if we have another "Travis Outlaw" where we wait 6 years to see the guy become an average/below average player, Roys career is going to be over before he got a shot at anything.

 

[Kaydow]

Did I say even if they don't help the team? I feel like Herm Edwards of NFL fame with his line in the post game press conference "You play to win the game". You make moves to improve the team. They don't always pan out. You do your best.

Any trade that would have got a second fiddle scorer for Roy that worked well with him would pan out. Guys like Wallace, who you listd above are prime because he scores without a lot of plays being ran for him. Other players who I think would work good with Roy are Richard Hamilton because he plays well without the ball. I think Stephen Jackson although being a knucklehead, would have been a great fit next to Roy. He has shown in situations where strong team leadership is present he is not a problem. Basically the premise is this:

If Roy does not get help soon, he is going to get beat up and beat down and pissed off like Dwayne Wade is now(He is already beat up. He hasn't got pissed off yet.) . That is a fact. I don't care if the help comes from the draft, a deal, or a free agent signing, he needs help or his body is going to give out on him. Once we have given a player or two a chance to fit next to Roy and observed how it works out, we can determine once and for all if Roy is a player you can build a contender with. But it can't just be any joe shmoe. It has to be a legit Tier 2 Tier 3 player as I referred to above.


As for speculation about trades, it does not matter. With KP as GM, there is either A) Getting it done. Or B) Not getting it done. I can see where he wanted to be patient and see if some guys panned out. But if we have another "Travis Outlaw" where we wait 6 years to see the guy become an average/below average player, Roys career is going to be over before he got a shot at anything.

That's what I'm worried about. The wear and tear this is putting on B-Roy. It could end up having lasting effects.

 

[RR7]

If Roy does not get help soon, he is going to get beat up and beat down and pissed off like Dwayne Wade is now(He is already beat up. He hasn't got pissed off yet.) . That is a fact. I don't care if the help comes from the draft, a deal, or a free agent signing, he needs help or his body is going to give out on him. Once we have given a player or two a chance to fit next to Roy and observed how it works out, we can determine once and for all if Roy is a player you can build a contender with. But it can't just be any joe shmoe. It has to be a legit Tier 2 Tier 3 player as I referred to above.

As for speculation about trades, it does not matter. With KP as GM, there is either A) Getting it done. Or B) Not getting it done. I can see where he wanted to be patient and see if some guys panned out. But if we have another "Travis Outlaw" where we wait 6 years to see the guy become an average/below average player, Roys career is going to be over before he got a shot at anything.

I agree, he needs more help. I think we have a better chance of doing that with more assets than with fewer, though. Which is why I was saying, if we found nothing else to help for this season or beyond, rather than let the deadline pass with nothing, I would look to make a deal similar to this, for the sole purpose of adding more assets with which to find another player to go alongside Roy.

Do you think we would be better served allowing Blake and Outlaw to expire than doing that deal?

 

[hasoos]

I agree, he needs more help. I think we have a better chance of doing that with more assets than with fewer, though. Which is why I was saying, if we found nothing else to help for this season or beyond, rather than let the deadline pass with nothing, I would look to make a deal similar to this, for the sole purpose of adding more assets with which to find another player to go alongside Roy.

Do you think we would be better served allowing Blake and Outlaw to expire than doing that deal?

As long as the end goal is getting a 2nd/3rd tier player, I have no objection to how it gets done. I guess I am leery because really if you look at it, over the past few years we have a ton of guys on the roster, all of which are talented to a certain degree. But none of them are good enough to differentiate themselves from the pack. This leads to a lot of good discussions about playing time on the message boards, and probably a lot of unhappyness in the locker room. If we end up with the "more assettes" and end up not making a move, things possibly get worse. Again. Nothing is without risk though, and GM's who are afraid of taking a risk are rarely rewarded. The bigger the risk, the bigger the accolades that go with it.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I don't make a move and keep what we have. I don't see any deals out there that make a ton of sense for us. A big would be nice but at what cost. Butler would be an upgrade on paper, but we'd be likely giving up Nic or Martell. I don't want to give up an asset just to improve our seeding, and I especially don't want to give up a player such as Nic, who might be superior. We'll hang on to what we have and start again in the summer. In the meantime our guys are getting some much needed experience.

With a core of Roy, Aldridge, Bayless, Fernandez, Webster, Batum, Oden, Przybilla, Cunningham and Pendergraph, we're well balanced and versatile. In the offseason we'll have an attractive trading chip in Miller. We could possibly sign-and-trade Blake and/or Outlaw. We could bring Freeland over. And, Pritchard will have the draft as well to bring in a solid contributer for the bench.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think Portland should look at this season as a flex spending account. With all of the injuries and such, this team really has no chance to win a title, so they should make sure every single player on their roster gets surgery or treatment for what ails them before next season.


Use it before it expires.

Brandon's hamstring is bothering him, so they should sit him


The worst thing that could happen is Roy needing surgery now because he injured something seriously that could have healed with a couple of weeks of rest. Instead, he won't return until all-star break next year.

 

[maxiep]

We as fans need patience and understanding. This season isn't going to be our Great Leap Forward for which we had all hoped. I think we look to give players we want for the future huge minutes and lots of rope.

If we play this year right, it can be a step back to make some huge strides forward in 2010-2011.

 

[hasoos]

I don't make a move and keep what we have. I don't see any deals out there that make a ton of sense for us. A big would be nice but at what cost. Butler would be an upgrade on paper, but we'd be likely giving up Nic or Martell. I don't want to give up an asset just to improve our seeding, and I especially don't want to give up a player such as Nic, who might be superior. We'll hang on to what we have and start again in the summer. In the meantime our guys are getting some much needed experience.

With a core of Roy, Aldridge, Bayless, Fernandez, Webster, Batum, Oden, Przybilla, Cunningham and Pendergraph, we're well balanced and versatile. In the offseason we'll have an attractive trading chip in Miller. We could possibly sign-and-trade Blake and/or Outlaw. We could bring Freeland over. And, Pritchard will have the draft as well to bring in a solid contributer for the bench.

But that's the whole point I was making man. It's not just to improve the seeding. It's to keep Roy from beating himself silly trying to carry this team. Was it that long ago that Dwade was getting 3 off season surgeries because of how bad he was beat up trying to carry the team. Those surgeries are going to have long term ramifications on Wade, and if Roy keeps it up, he will follow the same path.

Secondly, I don't think that trading necessarily means you are giving up on anybody. You just are giving yourself more cushion for development.

Lastly, if the player you are bringing in, is as good as you could ever expect Batum or Martell to become, why wait for a guy to "possibly" develope into a good player when you can get a known good talent, now?

Do you think Martell will ever be better than Carone Butler? Does anybody in their right mind think that?

What about Batum? Same question. If we are lucky he turns out that good.

 

[MIXUM]

dude... its called the off season. should we miss the playoffs... roy will have 6 months to recover. its the payers who screw themselves... if they have a bad shoulder...fix it and stop thinking rest will help.

 

[RoyToy]

The people that want to quit on this season are hilarious. Sit Roy?

Rofl.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Hmmm.....

Portland needs a consistent third scorer, but I'm not sure Nate really knows how to coach a team with three quality scorers.

Portland needs some interior defenders, but if there are any out there, they won't come cheap.

I think in all seriousness, and not trying to be Chicken Little, the Blazers should try and figure out what they want to do NEXT season, and start that process this season.

For example

If they want cap space then try and trade Joel, Miller and Webster to Houston for T-Mac.

If they know they aren't going to re-sign Blake and Outlaw, then try and get something of value for them at the deadline.

If they know, or think rudy won't be happy in a back up role, or in a 3 guard rotation, then deal him as well.

If they have a player they are targeting in the draft then do what you can now to get him, by acquiring picks

Portland needs to have players with defined roles, but that is almost impossible with this roster.


If you could get Houston to bite on that deal, and get T-Mac, it would be awesome. Even with Roy and Aldridge's salaries, Portland would have close to 12 million in cap space in one of the best FA markets ever.

The injuries make it kind of tough to maneuver right now, but I absolutely agree with the bolded bit.

Maybe KP really does have a long range plan, but I haven't seen much evidence in the past year that this is the case. You sort of get the feeling that he's banking on getting everybody back healthy and then rebooting and trying the same strategy again next season -- that is, keeping the team stockpiled with 12 rotation quality players and hoping it all works itself out.

I think we'll have a clearer picture of any long range plans after the trade deadline and once the summer rolls around.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I think Portland should look at this season as a flex spending account. With all of the injuries and such, this team really has no chance to win a title, so they should make sure every single player on their roster gets surgery or treatment for what ails them before next season.


Use it before it expires.

Brandon's hamstring is bothering him, so they should sit him


The worst thing that could happen is Roy needing surgery now because he injured something seriously that could have healed with a couple of weeks of rest. Instead, he won't return until all-star break next year.

Absolutely. And I'd take it step further and play players no more than 30 minutes per game. That goes for Brandon.

 

[MIXUM]

maxie you and hcp should fight for the biggest "typical blazer fan award"

"next year" "we dont need a trade" kpee is doing a great job" "oden will be fine"

my god thats what is sad..... talk about wimpy little bitches throwing in the towel caus ethey are scared to see the team fail... hmm maybe the posters have taken the gms idenity?

 

[RoyToy]

Mixum actually right for once. The people that want to quit on this season are ridiculous. Seriously, get a grip.

 

[RR7]

Mixum actually right for once. The people that want to quit on this season are ridiculous. Seriously, get a grip.

Oh come on. He quit on the team almost before the season started. He's just building them up as legit playoff contenders so he has an excuse to bitch if they by chance don't make it.

 

[RoyToy]

Has nothing to do with w/e Mixum is doing. The fact is this team is currently in the playoffs and to quit on the season just because it's going to be tough is ridiculous. I haven't seen Houston quit yet, and they've been without Yao all year.

 

[LittleAlex]

The people that want to quit on this season are hilarious. Sit Roy?

Rofl.

If he is currently playing on a bum Hamstring they yeah I would say sit him for a few games so he gets right. That is an injury that can get worse in a hurry.

I would not advocate sitting him just to sit him though. That would be foolish.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

But that's the whole point I was making man. It's not just to improve the seeding. It's to keep Roy from beating himself silly trying to carry this team. Was it that long ago that Dwade was getting 3 off season surgeries because of how bad he was beat up trying to carry the team. Those surgeries are going to have long term ramifications on Wade, and if Roy keeps it up, he will follow the same path.

Ok. I see that, but we have those players now. IMO, it should be everyone else shouldering the load right now. We don't need to trade for more offensive firepower. We have Bayless, Mills, and Webster to tide us over until Blake, Fernandez, and then Batum returns. Why the coaching staff or Brandon is so hell bent on playing 40 minutes a night (I actually don't know what his minutes are), I don't know.

Secondly, I don't think that trading necessarily means you are giving up on anybody. You just are giving yourself more cushion for development.

We'd need to qualify this with some real scenarios. If we're talking about moving any of our young guys, I'm against it. If we're talking about moving Blake or Miller, I'm down. No one is going to touch Outlaw or Przybilla, so I'm not thinking about them.

Lastly, if the player you are bringing in, is as good as you could ever expect Batum or Martell to become, why wait for a guy to "possibly" develope into a good player when you can get a known good talent, now?

Do you think Martell will ever be better than Carone Butler? Does anybody in their right mind think that?

What about Batum? Same question. If we are lucky he turns out that good.

Caron Butler >>> Martell Webster. And always will be. I'm of the opinion though that Nic would be the asking price, and I do believe that not only will Nic be, overall, as good as Butler, but that, defensively, he's going to be far better, and that's a skill I desperately want to retain. Not to mention that Nic's prime years are all ahead of him, but fast approaching while Butler could be on the downside of his by the time we're truly ready to compete for a championship. Additionally, I like the idea of bringing guys up in our system rather than bringing them in from outside. Certain guys have done very well at adapting to our "culture", but we run the risk that an outside talent wouldn't mesh well and/or our existing players would be rubbed the wrong way if one of their teammates were moved. It could affect chemistry and I don't want to touch something that's so solid.

There are a number of reasons why I'd rather stand pat.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

The people that want to quit on this season are hilarious. Sit Roy?

Rofl.

I don't want to sit Roy. I just don't want to see him killing himself now. Kill yourself when we're at full strength and gunnin' for a title. You think playing Roy for no more than 30 minutes is hilarious?

 

[hasoos]

I don't want to sit Roy. I just don't want to see him killing himself now. Kill yourself when we're at full strength and gunnin' for a title. You think playing Roy for no more than 30 minutes is hilarious?

IMO prime players for a team should get about 36 minutes a night. 36 minutes keeps most high end players happy, but keeps them from getting broke down.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Has nothing to do with w/e Mixum is doing. The fact is this team is currently in the playoffs and to quit on the season just because it's going to be tough is ridiculous. I haven't seen Houston quit yet, and they've been without Yao all year.

I don't think anyone wants Portland to quit, but if a player, like Roy, is dinged up then he should sit. It would be far worse to lose his for any time next season because the team decided to play him in a meaningless game. Portland has no real shot at winning a title this year, so all of the games are meaningless.

 

[shamelessblazer]

I would still love:

Blake/Outlaw/detroit pick to Utah
Prince to Portland
Boozer to Detroit

I know that Prince has been hurt a lot but we'd have to see how he plays after he comes back. The guy doesn't quite fit into what they're doing in Detroit, and could really help out our defense and court IQ for a while w/o being a hefty contract. He doesn't however provide much frontcourt help at all. I still think the consolidation of Blake/Outlaw would be good personally.

 

[hasoos]

I don't think anyone wants Portland to quit, but if a player, like Roy, is dinged up then he should sit. It would be far worse to lose his for any time next season because the team decided to play him in a meaningless game. Portland has no real shot at winning a title this year, so all of the games are meaningless.

I have talked with LittleAlex about this. We both concur a suitable season would be making the playoffs, getting the #8 spot, and punching LA in the mouth before going out.

 

[LittleAlex]

With a core of Roy, Aldridge, Bayless, Fernandez, Webster, Batum, Oden, Przybilla, Cunningham and Pendergraph, we're well balanced and versatile. In the offseason we'll have an attractive trading chip in Miller. We could possibly sign-and-trade Blake and/or Outlaw. We could bring Freeland over. And, Pritchard will have the draft as well to bring in a solid contributer for the bench.

I guess the question is will the above line-up be good enough to contend for a title.

History tells us no. The above line-up does not have a legitimate number two offensive option.
Oden, as good as I wish he would be, cannot be counted on.
Joel is a 30 year old man coming off of a horrific injury and was never able to shoulder the offensive load even at 100%.
Aldridge is content to shoot the worst shot in basketball 6 times a game and seems allergic to physical play in the paint.
Webster is having the best 4 game stretch of his career but I am not going to bet my house it keeps going.
Batum and Bayless are good but 2nd fiddle good is a stretch.
Frenandez is coming off of back surgery and plays the exact same position as the number one option.
Cunningham and Pendergraph are good players for second round draft picks but to assume either of them is capable of scoring 20 a night seems like a pipe dream.
Mills has only played 4 minutes of NBA basketball so who knows how he will turn out.
Blake and Outlaw are as good as they will ever be and that simply isn't good enough to be the number 2 man on a contender.

If we are talking about what the team needs to do to build a contender then standing pat is not an option.
If instead we are talking about what the team needs to do to become a "one and done" playoff team then standing pat will work just fine.

I sorely want to see a finals game played in the RG before I die. I want to see them build a contender. In order for that to happen I firmly believe they will need to make a move of some sort that will involve a guy or two the team will really miss. Portland isn't going to get something for nothing.

All of this assumes that Portland will ever be able to make such a deal. It may be that no team would be willing to part with one of their best players without Portland giving up one of it's best players in return. That would be a lateral move that gets Portland no closer to contention. I am guessing Portland will not be able to pull off such a deal.

To be honest I am a bit depressed about the future of the current team while being proud of them. One of the biggest tragedies of this season is the fact that we still have no idea if the team as currently constructed can contend and we aren't going to find out for at least another season if we ever do. Portland has bet the house that a trio of Roy, LMA and Oden can get them to the finals.

Today that looks like a sucker bet.

 

[hasoos]

I guess the question is will the above line-up be good enough to contend for a title.

History tells us no. The above line-up does not have a legitimate number two offensive option.
Oden, as good as I wish he would be, cannot be counted on.
Joel is a 30 year old man coming off of a horrific injury and was never able to shoulder the offensive load even at 100%.
Aldridge is content to shoot the worst shot in basketball 6 times a game and seems allergic to physical play in the paint.
Webster is having the best 4 game stretch of his career but I am not going to bet my house it keeps going.
Batum and Bayless are good but 2nd fiddle good is a stretch.
Frenandez is coming off of back surgery and plays the exact same position as the number one option.
Cunningham and Pendergraph are good players for second round draft picks but to assume either of them is capable of scoring 20 a night seems like a pipe dream.
Mills has only played 4 minutes of NBA basketball so who knows how he will turn out.
Blake and Outlaw are as good as they will ever be and that simply isn't good enough to be the number 2 man on a contender.

If we are talking about what the team needs to do to build a contender then standing pat is not an option.
If instead we are talking about what the team needs to do to become a "one and done" playoff team then standing pat will work just fine.

I sorely want to see a finals game played in the RG before I die. I want to see them build a contender. In order for that to happen I firmly believe they will need to make a move of some sort that will involve a guy or two the team will really miss. Portland isn't going to get something for nothing.

All of this assumes that Portland will ever be able to make such a deal. It may be that no team would be willing to part with one of their best players without Portland giving up one of it's best players in return. That would be a lateral move that gets Portland no closer to contention. I am guessing Portland will not be able to pull off such a deal.

To be honest I am a bit depressed about the future of the current team while being proud of them. One of the biggest tragedies of this season is the fact that we still have no idea if the team as currently constructed can contend and we aren't going to find out for at least another season if we ever do. Portland has bet the house that a trio of Roy, LMA and Oden can get them to the finals.

Today that looks like a sucker bet.

I agree. I had been hoping that Aldrige would turn into that guy that would be the 2nd scorer, but he is looking more like a 3rd scorer to me. This season there are more games averaging in the low teens than in the 20's. I keep hearing Aldridge saying that he wants to make an all star game and he wants to be a top tier guy. Talk is cheap. Back it up. He is in his 4th year.

Right now I think most folks would struggle to identify a 2nd scorer on this team. A 2nd scorer that works like a machine and shows up 9 out of 10 nights.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I would still love:

Blake/Outlaw/detroit pick to Utah
Prince to Portland
Boozer to Detroit

I know that Prince has been hurt a lot but we'd have to see how he plays after he comes back. The guy doesn't quite fit into what they're doing in Detroit, and could really help out our defense and court IQ for a while w/o being a hefty contract. He doesn't however provide much frontcourt help at all. I still think the consolidation of Blake/Outlaw would be good personally.

I really like Prince. His style would fit so perfectly next to Roy. If that was the cost to get him, wow, I'd do it in a nanosecond. Prince, even in a down year, even with an injury, gets me more excited than a healthy Butler. I really don't know why. I know, it's absurd.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I have talked with LittleAlex about this. We both concur a suitable season would be making the playoffs, getting the #8 spot, and punching LA in the mouth before going out.

Fuck yeah!

 

[hasoos]

I really like Prince. His style would fit so perfectly next to Roy. If that was the cost to get him, wow, I'd do it in a nanosecond. Prince, even in a down year, even with an injury, gets me more excited than a healthy Butler. I really don't know why. I know, it's absurd.

Are you serious? You know he has a ruptured disk right? I have freinds with ruptured disk. You don't get over them. Ever. Disk replacement surgery, which is the only treatment option, isn't even legal in the USA. Back injuries end more NBA careers than knee injuries. That is why I am worried about Rudy. They may be playing it down, but back injuries are serious bad ju-ju for NBA players.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

History tells us no. The above line-up does not have a legitimate number two offensive option.

Looking at Detroit's championship roster, most wouldn't have thought they were your typical championship roster.

Roy and Aldridge with a matured Bayless, Batum and Oden may be a legitimate contending starting lineup. Add an additionally seasoned Pendergraph, Cunningham, Webster, and Fernandez off the bench, and that's, for me, a title contender.

Title contenders can have an offensive unit that's either unbalanced or balanced.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Are you serious? You know he has a ruptured disk right? I have freinds with ruptured disk. You don't get over them. Ever. Disk replacement surgery, which is the only treatment option, isn't even legal in the USA. Back injuries end more NBA careers than knee injuries. That is why I am worried about Rudy. They may be playing it down, but back injuries are serious bad ju-ju for NBA players.

Actually I didn't realize his injury was so severe.