What is wrong with CJ?

[UKRAINEFAN]

1) I completely agree that coaching is largely to blame here too. Why is CJ being run into the ground in early November when he's struggling?

2) I have no doubt that CJ will find his shot and get hot and his shooting %'s will look fine by the end of the year. However, the rest of CJ's game is the issue I have and that can't be explained away by different teammates this year. CJ's passing has gotten worse each of the 4 years since his breakout season in which he was a fairly decent passer. I completely disagree that he relies on a system to get good looks. He rarely plays within a system. This doesn't mean I'm saying he's a scrub. I agree that he's a good dude.

Just off the top of my head I can recall multiple times in each of the 9 games so far where CJ just flat out ignored an open teammate to take a contested shot when drawing multiple defenders. I can maybe see doing so when the game is on the line in the playoffs but starting off a new season with a bunch of new teammates don't you think it would be best for the team for CJ to at least try to help others get going, especially when his shot isn't falling? The Philly game in particular was when I had enough. In the first half Hood had hit 4 shots in a row and was wide open in the corner again and CJ drove in on 3 guys and missed. He even looked right at Hood and had a clear pass before shooting. Same game there was at least two times where Skal's man had left him to stop CJ driving down the paint and he shot and missed a floater instead of just dumping it off for an easy two. Still in that same game, there was a play where CJ gets a pick from Tolliver and both defenders go with CJ and Tolliver is standing at the 3 point line with no one within 10 feet of him. Instead of passing back to him CJ shoots and makes a 15 foot jumper with two defenders all over him. The problem isn't whether or not the shot goes in, it's that over the course of a season a teammate with an open shot should almost always be the priority over taking a tough contested shot. It's even more magnified when the person shooting is struggling. CJ can't blame his teammates for that. If time and time again he passes to someone in that situation and they continually miss then people wouldn't blame CJ at all. There are times when CJ can get hot and make a bunch of crazy shots in a row. He definitely had several of those moments in the playoffs. I just wish he'd try to get others involved first. A lot of his shots are early in the shot clock without any rebounders in position either. The difference between when Dame does it and when CJ does it is Dame often needs to shoot early before the defense is set otherwise he doesn't get a good shot later on. CJ can create a shot for himself at any point in the shot clock. Why not try moving it around first and then if nothing is materializing then let CJ create for himself?

Does anyone ever sit down with him and watch film of plays like that and discuss what he could have done? After all these years, I'm thinking no.

 

[wizenheimer]

I honestly can’t believe how much people have turned on him just months after he carried us into the western conference finals against Denver.

oh c'mon. He had a great game 7 but the Blazers wouldn't have made it to a game 7 if it wasn't for Hood and Dame.

and where was CJ the next 4 games? You know, those next 4 games when Dame was being tag-teamed by Klay and Iggy and doubled with Draymond/Looney? While he was being single-covered as the Warrior defense sold out to stop Dame? Where he was was out on the perimeter shooting 39% on FG's, 35% on three's, and carrying an ugly .481 TS%.

and that's where the hole in the narrative that people have just recently "turned on CJ" comes in. Most of the people hammering CJ right now haven't just magically appeared this week on the 'hate CJ' bus. They've got there after watching CJ be the #2 option for 4 consecutive years. The views on CJ aren't just informed by the 9 games this season. They are informed by the 457 games before this season

I mean, just go back to that 4 game sweep by the Warriors. The formula was the same as it has been for the close-out playoff series the previous 3 years. Opponents sell out the defense to stop Dame knowing the other Blazers can't beat them. The Warriors have done the exact same thing 3 times and the Pelicans did it once. Same formula...stop Dame. Blazers are 1-16 in those series, and the one win came when Curry didn't play. If CJ was as good as his fan-boys claim, that formula wouldn't succeed. It for damn sure wouldn't have succeeded enough that the Blazers were 1-16 and having lost 14 in a row. Where was game 7 CJ all those times?

but that's the thing; Dame can have shooting slumps....he does every year. But even when he's shooting poorly he's finding other ways to engineer wins. He gets to the line and he runs the offense, finding the hot hand. He'll even play defense. Dame's shoulders are broad enough that he can carry the team to wins whille making teammates better. CJ doesn't make teammates better. When his shot isn't falling, he's got nothing else. He's not one-dimensional like Crabbe was, but his game has few facets

last season, CJ was 5th on the team in PER; 10th in TS%; 12th in FT rate; 8th on the team in winhare/48 (tied with Harkless); 7th on the team in box plus minus. He did that while burning thru 20% of Portland's FGA; 25.5% of Portland's possessions; and over 25% of the cap

last season, of the 276 NBA players with 1000 minutes or more, CJ ranked 86th in PER; 160th in TS%; 226th in FT rate; 120th in assist rate; 100th in winshares/48; and 110th in box plus/minus. He also ranked 94th in RPM....and he's a lousy defender

so yeah, we all know that CJ will start shooting better and the venting directed at CJ will calm down. But that still won't change what he is: a narrow shouldered, high usage SG who tends to bring little else to a game except ball-stopping offense based on over-dribbling and burning shot-clock. It looks good when he's hitting everything and terrible when he isn't....like now

 

[DDolla]

He want to replace Baker Mayfield and be a QB for the Browns. Only problem is, he don’t know how to pass the ball.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

He want to replace Baker Mayfield and be a QB for the Browns. Only problem is, he don’t know how to pass the ball.

Neither does Baker, lol

 

[CupWizier]

Okay, I'm glad you're willing to just assume he cares.

and you are assuming he doesn't? I haven't seen or heard anything to make me think otherwise, but then again, I don't sit in a forum bitching and whining about certain players like some of you guys do. I actually like the Blazers. I don't know what level of sports you played but did you care when you did?

 

[CupWizier]

He already got his money and too much drinking wine.

He got paid after his rookie contract as well. That pretty much debunks your theory.

 

[kjironman1]

He's in a shooting slump and if anyone has played sports then they know when you are in a slump you trend to start pressing which sometimes makes it more difficult to get out of it. No different than a baseball player that goes into a hitting slump. I expect him to work his way out of it and become a dominant scorer again. He's just not as perfect as the armchair experts in this forum.

Cup I can agree with everything you posted here but why the dig on all the people of the forum. These are honest questions and yes I agree he is in a slump. Hope he comes out of it. But what do you expect after a performance like we just watched wasting away a 60 point performance? CJ needs to break out of this slump quick or 1M will have his job.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

and you are assuming he doesn't? I have seen or heard nothing to make me think otherwise. I don;t know what level of sports you played but did you care when you did?

I cant say for basketball, but I have befriended a few Ex-NFL players and Div1 CFB players and when this subject has come up, it has definitely been mentioned that some players care more about their stats and how they played instead of winning.
Even current example, theirs been a lot of ex teammates of Antonio Brown who have said he didnt care if the team won or lost it was about his targets / catches and thats all that mattered to him.

Im not trying to claim I know anything on CJ, but it’s not unheard in professional sports, or life in general for individuals to be in it for their own goals rather than the teams.

 

[Labinot41]

He sucks and i cant wait for the day we trade this ballhog

 

[CupWizier]

Cup I can agree with everything you posted here but why the dig on all the people of the forum. These are honest questions and yes I agree he is in a slump. Hope he comes out of it. But what do you expect after a performance like we just watched wasting away a 60 point performance? CJ needs to break out of this slump quick or 1M will have his job.

Because it gets old how some of these "fans" are so quick to jump on certain players. Now we have hoopjock question whether he even cares about winning. It's actually pretty sickening and I am about ready to quit the Blazer section. I look at the Blazers as kind of being an extended family and when someone is down, you don't kick them harder, you cheer them on is the way I have always been when I played and coached. Some of the shit that is being flung in this forum is pretty sickening.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

He sucks and i cant wait for the day we trade this ballhog

Im gonna disagree, I dont think CJ sucks, but I think he’s got a problem here that he wouldnt have in other places. Its a bit similar to other teams that have two ball dominant players. CJ has shown at times that when he’s the PG he’s successful at running the team. He’s got a similar skillset to a lot of scoring guards. I think as the 2G though he thinks his job is to score every time he touches it. I think especially when he and Dame are playing together he gets tunnel vision, watch when they stagger him and he gets to play “point” he looks quite a bit different.

Edit:
So what Im saying is its kind of a complex fit for CJ offensively. He isnt a bad player but its something where I think he believes when he’s the 2 his job is to score, so he shoots a lot and makes some inefficient plays.

 

[CupWizier]

I cant say for basketball, but I have befriended a few Ex-NFL players and Div1 CFB players and when this subject has come up, it has definitely been mentioned that some players care more about their stats and how they played instead of winning.
Even current example, theirs been a lot of ex teammates of Antonio Brown who have said he didnt care if the team won or lost it was about his targets / catches and thats all that mattered to him.

Im not trying to claim I know anything on CJ, but it’s not unheard in professional sports, or life in general for individuals to be in it for their own goals rather than the teams.

Sure there are some, but they are few and far between and to throw out that kind of accusation to someone that he doesn't know is pretty shitty. Some of the shit being said is being very disrespectful towards a player from a team they allegedly love. If they want to question if McCollum cares, then I should have the right to question what kind of fan they truly are.

I'm outa hear as this is getting real old.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Sure there are some, but they are few and far between and to throw out that kind of accusation to someone that he doesn't know is pretty shitty. Some of the shit being said is being very disrespectful towards a player from a team they allegedly love. If they want to question if McCollum cares, then I should have the right to question what kind of fan they truly are.

I'm outa hear as this is getting real old.

I couldnt tell you one way or another what CJ’s priorities are. Honestly if I had to guess it would be that he wants to win, as I dont think Dame would have gotten so close to him as a teammate if that werent the case.

 

[hoopsjock]

and you are assuming he doesn't? I haven't seen or heard anything to make me think otherwise, but then again, I don't sit in a forum bitching and whining about certain players like some of you guys do. I actually like the Blazers. I don't know what level of sports you played but did you care when you did?

If you read my post again, I simply asked the question. I'm not assuming anything so you just "bitched" for no reason.

I am super competitive and only care about winning and doing whatever my team needs for me to win a game. In basketball I couldn't care less if I score 40 points or don't take a single shot as long as we get the win. I'll tell you what though if I was struggling I wouldn't jack up 19 shots, even if I'm the best player on the court. I always have people tell me I'm too unselfish though.

 

[Wade Garrett]

Sure there are some, but they are few and far between and to throw out that kind of accusation to someone that he doesn't know is pretty shitty. Some of the shit being said is being very disrespectful towards a player from a team they allegedly love. If they want to question if McCollum cares, then I should have the right to question what kind of fan they truly are.

I'm outa hear as this is getting real old.

The "blame game" seems to be a "requirement" of any scenario involving the Blazers losing, or falling behind 7-2 in the first minutes.
Not only is it disrespectful to the Blazers, but it disrespects the players on the other teams, by failing to recognize their abilities.
I enjoy reading, but I no longer really participate in here. And quite frankly, the GAMES ( cos...its an entertainment game, after all) are more enjoyable..
The "blame game"......ugh..

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

The "blame game" seems to be a "requirement" of any scenario involving the Blazers losing, or falling behind 7-2 in the first minutes.
Not only is it disrespectful to the Blazers, but it disrespects the players on the other teams, by failing to recognize their abilities.
I enjoy reading, but I no longer really participate in here. And quite frankly, the GAMES ( cos...its an entertainment game, after all) are more enjoyable..
The "blame game"......ugh..

When Dame waves good bye to OKC we're all excited and "blaming" him for it, or when CJ made the Block on Murray in Game 7 we all gave him the Blame / credit of making great plays. If we can talk about the exciting and "positive" things about the Blazers when they're winning. What is wrong with assigning the Blame / Credit when it comes to losing? This is, after all, a Blazer forum, NONE of us want the team to lose so we can talk about our disappointments, in whoever, Dame, CJ, Neil Olshey, Stotts, we want them to win. I get that we can cross over to being totally disrespectful at times but it's not very often on here you see someone saying oh I want this guy to go get hit by a bus because he's not doing basketball well... That's like twitter type nonsense. At least for the most part it's oh I want a guy traded or not on the team, or a new coach, it's relevant to basketball, and to how the Blazers are performing.

 

[Blazers1977]

S

Interesting graph, where did you find this?

 

[oldmangrouch]

It always amazes me how some folks expect the fans to show more loyalty to the players than the vast majority of players show to the team, the fans, or the community. And yes, I know many people see Dame as an exception.

You can respect a mercenary when they do a good job, but loyalty? Sorry, but my loyalty is to the team. If an individual player is hurting the team, they are fair game for honest criticism.

 

[Blazers1977]

1) I completely agree that coaching is largely to blame here too. Why is CJ being run into the ground in early November when he's struggling?

2) I have no doubt that CJ will find his shot and get hot and his shooting %'s will look fine by the end of the year. However, the rest of CJ's game is the issue I have and that can't be explained away by different teammates this year. CJ's passing has gotten worse each of the 4 years since his breakout season in which he was a fairly decent passer. I completely disagree that he relies on a system to get good looks. He rarely plays within a system. This doesn't mean I'm saying he's a scrub. I agree that he's a good dude.

Just off the top of my head I can recall multiple times in each of the 9 games so far where CJ just flat out ignored an open teammate to take a contested shot when drawing multiple defenders. I can maybe see doing so when the game is on the line in the playoffs but starting off a new season with a bunch of new teammates don't you think it would be best for the team for CJ to at least try to help others get going, especially when his shot isn't falling? The Philly game in particular was when I had enough. In the first half Hood had hit 4 shots in a row and was wide open in the corner again and CJ drove in on 3 guys and missed. He even looked right at Hood and had a clear pass before shooting. Same game there was at least two times where Skal's man had left him to stop CJ driving down the paint and he shot and missed a floater instead of just dumping it off for an easy two. Still in that same game, there was a play where CJ gets a pick from Tolliver and both defenders go with CJ and Tolliver is standing at the 3 point line with no one within 10 feet of him. Instead of passing back to him CJ shoots and makes a 15 foot jumper with two defenders all over him. The problem isn't whether or not the shot goes in, it's that over the course of a season a teammate with an open shot should almost always be the priority over taking a tough contested shot. It's even more magnified when the person shooting is struggling. CJ can't blame his teammates for that. If time and time again he passes to someone in that situation and they continually miss then people wouldn't blame CJ at all. There are times when CJ can get hot and make a bunch of crazy shots in a row. He definitely had several of those moments in the playoffs. I just wish he'd try to get others involved first. A lot of his shots are early in the shot clock without any rebounders in position either. The difference between when Dame does it and when CJ does it is Dame often needs to shoot early before the defense is set otherwise he doesn't get a good shot later on. CJ can create a shot for himself at any point in the shot clock. Why not try moving it around first and then if nothing is materializing then let CJ create for himself?

what I mean by “system” is that CJ is an iso or pick and roll player. He desperately needs good spacing. Our spacing has been bad, one salient example is Whiteside has no idea where to go and he’s constantly clogging the lane with 2+ defenders.

CJ was the best mid range shooter in the league last year, he should have a green light to some extent. But yeah I see the forced shots. I get what you’re saying. But sometimes when you’re in a slump you can try to shoot your way out of it and make bad decisions. He doesn’t deserve to be called a “ball hog.”

 

[BonesJones]

Before I give my opinion on what I think is “wrong with CJ” I want to mention that (1) this is not all on CJ, the team/coach is largely to blame, and (2) CJ is not playing as bad as everyone says.

On point (2):

CJ is playing a career-high 37 mpg. This comes when many other teams are resting their stars for entire games at a time. He was also playing 40+ min in the playoffs j

CJ so far is getting 18 ppg, shooting 38.5% from the field and and 42% effective. That’s bad, but it’s not THAT bad. Starting out for 9 games with these numbers is not worth trading someone over, not even close.

On point (1):

the entire team is a mess right now. We are dealing with new players, new injuries, new assistant coaches, new veterans, new rule changes, new court, new starting line up, new bench, new rotation after Zach injury, etc etc

you can’t just put the blame on CJ. Our whole team is in a funk. Just bc Dame is a God that can get 60 while being doubled doesn’t mean CJ should be expected to do the same. CJ needs better screening and ball movement to be effective.

As for “what’s wrong with CJ”:

(1) He doesn’t seem to be at his peak regarding physical conditioning. he had a very serious injury just months ago and he also went father into the playoffs than ever (more games + less time off).

(2) it is human nature to not be as driven when you get a contract like he did. We can criticize him for it, but it would happen to any of us. It’s impossible not to be motivated by that kind of money, and conversely to not have your motivation drop when the money is no longer at stake.

(3) as mentioned, he relies on a system to get good looks. Our offense is a mess right now from top to bottom.

I have faith in CJ. He isn’t a scrub. He works his ass off and he is a genuinely good dude. I honestly can’t believe how much people have turned on him just months after he carried us into the western conference finals against Denver.

I could get paid a trillion dollars a year and Id still play 100% for this team.

 

[BonesJones]

what I mean by “system” is that CJ is an iso or pick and roll player. He desperately needs good spacing. Our spacing has been bad, one salient example is Whiteside has no idea where to go and he’s constantly clogging the lane with 2+ defenders.

CJ was the best mid range shooter in the league last year, he should have a green light to some extent. But yeah I see the forced shots. I get what you’re saying. But sometimes when you’re in a slump you can try to shoot your way out of it and make bad decisions. He doesn’t deserve to be called a “ball hog.”

I dont view Iso and pick n roll isnt really its a "system" in the context you used it.

 

[BonesJones]

The "blame game" seems to be a "requirement" of any scenario involving the Blazers losing, or falling behind 7-2 in the first minutes.
Not only is it disrespectful to the Blazers, but it disrespects the players on the other teams, by failing to recognize their abilities.
I enjoy reading, but I no longer really participate in here. And quite frankly, the GAMES ( cos...its an entertainment game, after all) are more enjoyable..
The "blame game"......ugh..

 

[Blazers1977]

oh c'mon. He had a great game 7 but the Blazers wouldn't have made it to a game 7 if it wasn't for Hood and Dame.

and where was CJ the next 4 games? You know, those next 4 games when Dame was being tag-teamed by Klay and Iggy and doubled with Draymond/Looney? While he was being single-covered as the Warrior defense sold out to stop Dame? Where he was was out on the perimeter shooting 39% on FG's, 35% on three's, and carrying an ugly .481 TS%.

and that's where the hole in the narrative that people have just recently "turned on CJ" comes in. Most of the people hammering CJ right now haven't just magically appeared this week on the 'hate CJ' bus. They've got there after watching CJ be the #2 option for 4 consecutive years. The views on CJ aren't just informed by the 9 games this season. They are informed by the 457 games before this season

I mean, just go back to that 4 game sweep by the Warriors. The formula was the same as it has been for the close-out playoff series the previous 3 years. Opponents sell out the defense to stop Dame knowing the other Blazers can't beat them. The Warriors have done the exact same thing 3 times and the Pelicans did it once. Same formula...stop Dame. Blazers are 1-16 in those series, and the one win came when Curry didn't play. If CJ was as good as his fan-boys claim, that formula wouldn't succeed. It for damn sure wouldn't have succeeded enough that the Blazers were 1-16 and having lost 14 in a row. Where was game 7 CJ all those times?

but that's the thing; Dame can have shooting slumps....he does every year. But even when he's shooting poorly he's finding other ways to engineer wins. He gets to the line and he runs the offense, finding the hot hand. He'll even play defense. Dame's shoulders are broad enough that he can carry the team to wins whille making teammates better. CJ doesn't make teammates better. When his shot isn't falling, he's got nothing else. He's not one-dimensional like Crabbe was, but his game has few facets

last season, CJ was 5th on the team in PER; 10th in TS%; 12th in FT rate; 8th on the team in winhare/48 (tied with Harkless); 7th on the team in box plus minus. He did that while burning thru 20% of Portland's FGA; 25.5% of Portland's possessions; and over 25% of the cap

last season, of the 276 NBA players with 1000 minutes or more, CJ ranked 86th in PER; 160th in TS%; 226th in FT rate; 120th in assist rate; 100th in winshares/48; and 110th in box plus/minus. He also ranked 94th in RPM....and he's a lousy defender

so yeah, we all know that CJ will start shooting better and the venting directed at CJ will calm down. But that still won't change what he is: a narrow shouldered, high usage SG who tends to bring little else to a game except ball-stopping offense based on over-dribbling and burning shot-clock. It looks good when he's hitting everything and terrible when he isn't....like now

this is completely revisionist history. It was Dame that largely disappeared in the Denver series, CJ was on fire the entire series, which is why you didn’t drop a billion stats about him.

youre blaming CJ bc he couldn’t beat the warriors, arguably the best franchise in history? CJ was still a developing player for most of those years and the blazers weren’t in the same universe and golden state.

Also you’re using regular season stats, CJ thrives in the playoffs. He’s averaged ~25 ppg in the last 8 playoff series. Your expectations are ridiculously high.

 

[Blazers1977]

When Dame waves good bye to OKC we're all excited and "blaming" him for it, or when CJ made the Block on Murray in Game 7 we all gave him the Blame / credit of making great plays. If we can talk about the exciting and "positive" things about the Blazers when they're winning. What is wrong with assigning the Blame / Credit when it comes to losing? This is, after all, a Blazer forum, NONE of us want the team to lose so we can talk about our disappointments, in whoever, Dame, CJ, Neil Olshey, Stotts, we want them to win. I get that we can cross over to being totally disrespectful at times but it's not very often on here you see someone saying oh I want this guy to go get hit by a bus because he's not doing basketball well... That's like twitter type nonsense. At least for the most part it's oh I want a guy traded or not on the team, or a new coach, it's relevant to basketball, and to how the Blazers are performing.

it’s the lack of loyalty. It would be one thing if he had been slumping for a couple years and you’re talking about trading him, but when he has a franchise record level playoff performance and people are calling him a bum and demanding he gets traded for a bad 9-game opening season stretch...

it makes you wonder where this stuff comes from. imo it’s not just unjustified, I agree with the other people who say this is toxic. I think it hurts our chances of winning if our fan base is this extremely negative and makes mountains outta molehills over every little slump.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Sure there are some, but they are few and far between and to throw out that kind of accusation to someone that he doesn't know is pretty shitty. Some of the shit being said is being very disrespectful towards a player from a team they allegedly love. If they want to question if McCollum cares, then I should have the right to question what kind of fan they truly are.

I'm outa hear as this is getting real old.

Serious question Cup: does it just not bother you when CJ ignores open team-mates or slacks off on defense? How often do you see him fight for a rebound or dive for a loose ball? Aminu is an unselfish player. CJ is the anti-chief. Even when he is playing well and is helping the team win, there is no way you can describe his game as "team first." It's more a matter of team goals and his personal goals overlapping.

And no, I don't know him personally - I am judging him solely based on what we all see on the court every bloody game!

 

[oldmangrouch]

it’s the lack of loyalty. It would be one thing if he had been slumping for a couple years and you’re talking about trading him, but when he has a franchise record level playoff performance and people are calling him a bum and demanding he gets traded for a bad 9-game opening season stretch...

it makes you wonder where this stuff comes from. imo it’s not just unjustified, I agree with the other people who say this is toxic. I think it hurts our chances of winning if our fan base is this extremely negative and makes mountains outta molehills over every little slump.

Was it Mark Twain who said "Loyalty to country always - to the president when he deserves it?" IMHO the same logic applies to the team vs individuals. I will always be the guy who roots for someone like Aminu while holding the door for someone like Harkless to leave. If you see that as "toxic", we will just have to disagree.

 

[hoopsjock]

what I mean by “system” is that CJ is an iso or pick and roll player. He desperately needs good spacing. Our spacing has been bad, one salient example is Whiteside has no idea where to go and he’s constantly clogging the lane with 2+ defenders.

CJ was the best mid range shooter in the league last year, he should have a green light to some extent. But yeah I see the forced shots. I get what you’re saying. But sometimes when you’re in a slump you can try to shoot your way out of it and make bad decisions. He doesn’t deserve to be called a “ball hog.”

Not trying to argue with you but the numbers prove he is indeed a ball hog. Hood is too but that goes mostly unnoticed since he rarely shoots a high volume of shots.

This is actually the reason why I'm so hard on CJ. He has the ability to be a playmaker. Every time he goes into his fancy dribbling he sucks the defense in. As his ball-handling has improved over the last few years his assist percentages have gone down. It should be the opposite. The most ironic part about it is if he did become a good passer it would get him so much more space when he does pull up in the mid range because teams wouldn't know if he's going to shoot or if he's going to find the open man. That alone would also improve his efficiency. Right now the defense doesn't even have to think about whether they should leave their man or not.

Whiteside is easy to blame for this but he wasn't on the team the previous 3 seasons when CJ's passing numbers deteriorated. Plus the game in which I gave numerous examples was the game Whiteside didn't even play. If Nurk is important to CJ playing better then why has his 3pt shooting gone down each year Nurk has been on the team?

 

[hoopsjock]

this is completely revisionist history. It was Dame that largely disappeared in the Denver series, CJ was on fire the entire series, which is why you didn’t drop a billion stats about him.

youre blaming CJ bc he couldn’t beat the warriors, arguably the best franchise in history? CJ was still a developing player for most of those years and the blazers weren’t in the same universe and golden state.

Also you’re using regular season stats, CJ thrives in the playoffs. He’s averaged ~25 ppg in the last 8 playoff series. Your expectations are ridiculously high.

By the way, I do appreciate that you are discussing back and forth. You're certainly entitled to feel however you want about CJ and I'm not trying to change your mind, just showing why I feel the way I do.

I just think in order to win a championship it's tough to have an inefficient high volume shooter with a low assist percentage as your 2nd option. Yes, that guy can get hot and win you games and even a series but it's not sustainable over 4 series.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[wizenheimer]

this is completely revisionist history. It was Dame that largely disappeared in the Denver series, CJ was on fire the entire series, which is why you didn’t drop a billion stats about him.

total bullshit

in that Denver series, CJ's had a .530 TS%; Dame was at .528 (when the league average is around .550). CJ averaged 1.12 points/shot; Dame averaged 1.21. CJ averaged 3 assists; Dame averaged 6. LOL....that's what you're calling "Dame disappeared" and "CJ on fire". Just ridiculous, but then that's what happens when Dame is held to a standard about 3 tiers higher than CJ's. I remember that same false narrative right after the Denver series coming from fans...."Dame played like shit and CJ was on fire!". CJ did average 1.3 points more than Dame, but he needed 3 more shots a game to do so....yeah man, on fire!!

https://www.basketball-reference.co...ence-semifinals-trail-blazers-vs-nuggets.html

youre blaming CJ bc he couldn’t beat the warriors, arguably the best franchise in history? CJ was still a developing player for most of those years and the blazers weren’t in the same universe and golden state.

I'm not "blaming" CJ for the losses to the Warriors. I've seen you talk up game-7-CJ in about a half dozen different posts today. I'm saying that CJ is not nearly as good as that game 7. Certainly, he's not as bad as the 9-game-CJ this season. But mainly, I was tired of you trying to frame things as people having turned on CJ just because of this season. People here aren't that stupid and shallow, and their memories are longer