Trade Idea What trade packages would you consider fair for CJ?

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Sinobas said:
Looks like you're quoting overall fg% there, but when you break it down in that manner, you're supposed to show 2pt FG%. His 2pt percentage has fallen all the way down from 51% to 41%. And I don't think blocks even count against your field goal percentage.

It's really been shots inside 10 feet that have been bad for him. 39% at the rim, 30% 3-10 Considering last year he shot 59% and 49% from those ranges respectively, that's a 20% fall off.

And yes, his turnovers seem to come at the worst times of the game, which is a big deal, because that's a good way to lose games.
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A turnover in the 1st quarter it's the same as a turnover at the end of a game.

His efficiency has fluctuated depending on range. Overall, not much difference.
 
AFully22 said:
I get your thinking but I don’t think there’s a single GM in the league that makes that trade. You’re essentially trading two first round picks, one being in the top 5, for a couple sure months of Boogie and some unrealistic hopes and dreams. The rest of the trade was a cool idea though.
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Uh.. Where else would DMC sign? It'd be a gamble that many GMs would take. CLE is in win now mode.
 
BonesJones said:
A turnover in the 1st quarter it's the same as a turnover at the end of a game.

His efficiency has fluctuated depending on range. Overall, not much difference.
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Not true, because you have a chance to recover from a TO in the 1st quarter, but when time runs out, game over. Does a lead change in the 1st quarter matter as much as a lead change with 5 seconds left? I think not.

And his scoring from 2pt range has been abysmal. 39% at the rim? That's gotta be a historic low.
 
BonesJones said:
Uh.. Where else would DMC sign? It'd be a gamble that many GMs would take. CLE is in win now mode.
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Literally any other team with cap space next summer. Lebron is probably leaving and there’s not a chance in hell he just resigns with Cleveland because he loves the city, if Lebron doesn’t leave they still have to resign him and IT. I would put a less then 5% chance Boogie will be in Cleveland next year. That top 5 pick is a perfect insurance plan for when LBJ leaves, that’s why it was so important in that deal.
 
Here's a slightly different question: is there a team out there that CJ would be perfect for?

Obviously NY could really use a lead guard. What could they offer? Their rookie with the unspellable name (who looked pretty great in the about 4 minutes I've seen him and would pair with a small shooter pretty well), Kanter to help match salaries, and a pick or two?
Philly would work great with CJ because Simmons is the real PG so you can put a scorer at the 1, but that's why they drafted Fultz.
Cleveland is home of his beloved Browns and could use him for sure, but has NOTHING to offer (unless we want Tristan Thompson).
New Orleans?

Trouble is, there's a glut of great guards out there at the moment, so CJ's probably not going to get value in return. We're going to have to make up for our backcourt's defensive deficiencies some other way.
 
AFully22 said:
Literally any other team with cap space next summer. Lebron is probably leaving and there’s not a chance in hell he just resigns with Cleveland because he loves the city, if Lebron doesn’t leave they still have to resign him and IT. I would put a less then 5% chance Boogie will be in Cleveland next year. That top 5 pick is a perfect insurance plan for when LBJ leaves, that’s why it was so important in that deal.
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Where the hell is Lebron gonna sign that's a better situation than CLE???

Instead of getting an "insurance plan", make Lebron stay by getting Cousins, and potentially win a ring in the process.

They shouldn't bet on Lebron leaving. If he stays, who do you think they should draft with the 5th pick that would actually contribute right away?
 
Denny Crane said:
Again, convincing argument on your part. Not.
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Says the dude who's argument is "He's better because I saw he was better a little bit."

Nothing about his tools or defensive focus suggests he's better than Dame at guarding PG.
 
BonesJones said:
Says the dude who's argument is "He's better because I saw he was better a little bit."

Nothing about his tools or defensive focus suggests he's better than Dame at guarding PG.
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I have _something_ and you are offering _nothing_. Contradiction is no argument. (yeah, yeah, cue Monty Python).

In those 7 games last season, we saw CJ start alongside a big SG. The difference in the defense was noticeable.

For example (in games Dame was out), Steph Curry had 5 turnovers with CJ guarding him (though he did score 35, so did CJ). CJ also had 2 blocks. He shut out Ricky Rubio (who scored double figures against Dame in each of 3 games).
 
Denny Crane said:
I have _something_ and you are offering _nothing_. Contradiction is no argument. (yeah, yeah, cue Monty Python).

In those 7 games last season, we saw CJ start alongside a big SG. The difference in the defense was noticeable.

For example (in games Dame was out), Steph Curry had 5 turnovers with CJ guarding him (though he did score 35, so did CJ). CJ also had 2 blocks. He shut out Ricky Rubio (who scored double figures against Dame in each of 3 games).
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Lets be real denny. Rubio scores on portland or doesn't score on Portland because of Stotts' gameplan against him.
Has nothing to do with anyone guarding him. He gets the same shots no matter who checks him.
Frankly, I think Stotts gameplan against Rubio is utter trash. This guy isn't prime Jason Kidd out there.
 
honkicracker said:
Lets be real denny. Rubio scores on portland or doesn't score on Portland because of Stotts' gameplan against him.
Has nothing to do with anyone guarding him. He gets the same shots no matter who checks him.
Frankly, I think Stotts gameplan against Rubio is utter trash. This guy isn't prime Jason Kidd out there.
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4 games. 10+ in 3 of them, 1 in the other (on 5 shots, 1 FTA made).

I don't see the reason to push back on something that's rather obvious. It's no slight against Dame, who is rightfully our starting PG and should remain our PG as long as he's willing and able. Defense is only half the game; what Dame does on offense is elite.

CJ's defense against SG's isn't horrible as well. In about 1/2 the team's total minutes at SG, opposing SGs had a 13 PER against him.
 
BonesJones said:
Where the hell is Lebron gonna sign that's a better situation than CLE???

Instead of getting an "insurance plan", make Lebron stay by getting Cousins, and potentially win a ring in the process.

They shouldn't bet on Lebron leaving. If he stays, who do you think they should draft with the 5th pick that would actually contribute right away?
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LA with his buddies. Melo, LBJ, DWade, CP3, PG could all be UFA’s next summer. I think most of the league thinks he’s leaving Cleveland this summer, doesn’t like ownership, already accomplished what he came there to do, winning a title for a third team is something that sets him apart from MJ.

I wouldn’t plan on LBJ leaving either but you definitely have to be ready for it if it does happen. Having a top 5 pick and some players you can trade for more picks as soon as he leaves seems to be the backup plan. If they get signs that he will definitely resign, then I’d do the Boogie trade too. I just don’t see that happening though.
 
AFully22 said:
LA with his buddies. Melo, LBJ, DWade, CP3, PG could all be UFA’s next summer. I think most of the league thinks he’s leaving Cleveland this summer, doesn’t like ownership, already accomplished what he came there to do, winning a title for a third team is something that sets him apart from MJ.

I wouldn’t plan on LBJ leaving either but you definitely have to be ready for it if it does happen. Having a top 5 pick and some players you can trade for more picks as soon as he leaves seems to be the backup plan. If they get signs that he will definitely resign, then I’d do the Boogie trade too. I just don’t see that happening though.
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And where would all his friends go with him to sign? You're talking about Cousins and Lebron resigning as "hopes and dreams", yet you're using all his friends as "reasoning" for him to leave, without any realistic destination.
 
Denny Crane said:
I have _something_ and you are offering _nothing_. Contradiction is no argument. (yeah, yeah, cue Monty Python).

In those 7 games last season, we saw CJ start alongside a big SG. The difference in the defense was noticeable.

For example (in games Dame was out), Steph Curry had 5 turnovers with CJ guarding him (though he did score 35, so did CJ). CJ also had 2 blocks. He shut out Ricky Rubio (who scored double figures against Dame in each of 3 games).
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So they started a better defender than Damian, how does that mean CJ guards PGs better than SGs?

And the coverage against Rubio was likely different, due to different personnel. Youre cherry-picking specific stats from specific games from an already small sample size.
 
BonesJones said:
So they started a better defender than Damian, how does that mean CJ guards PGs better than SGs?

And the coverage against Rubio was likely different, due to different personnel. Youre cherry-picking specific stats from specific games from an already small sample size.
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I didn't say he guards PGs better than SGs. I just said he's better at guarding PGs than Dame.

I'm pretty sure Stotts guards opponents' PGs with our PG. No different coverage.
 
Denny Crane said:
4 games. 10+ in 3 of them, 1 in the other (on 5 shots, 1 FTA made).

I don't see the reason to push back on something that's rather obvious. It's no slight against Dame, who is rightfully our starting PG and should remain our PG as long as he's willing and able. Defense is only half the game; what Dame does on offense is elite.

CJ's defense against SG's isn't horrible as well. In about 1/2 the team's total minutes at SG, opposing SGs had a 13 PER against him.
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Rubio gets the same shots against Portland every game. It's all about if he makes them.
Portland gameplans against him. Go under everything, let him shoot.
No one needs to look @ stats to see this, you just watch the games.
Even the last game against Utah you saw the gameplan in action. It's won and lost games for Portland, usually it wins the games. As Rubio has gone 7-7 in the first half, and 0-7 in the second.
I think it's idiotic scheme as it gives him room to make passes, but whatever. I'm not paid to be the coach Stotts is.
 
BonesJones said:
And where would all his friends go with him to sign? You're talking about Cousins and Lebron resigning as "hopes and dreams", yet you're using all his friends as "reasoning" for him to leave, without any realistic destination.
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Yea, Los Angeles is a realistic destination. This has been talked about for months now, not sure how you haven’t heard of it.
 
AFully22 said:
Yea, Los Angeles is a realistic destination. This has been talked about for months now, not sure how you haven’t heard of it.
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I figured you'd suggest this. The media is pushing this because that's what the media wants. Location doesn't matter for a family man who's brand is global. So why else would he want to go to one of the worst teams in the league? You also realize he'd only be able to bring one of those guys?

That's more unrealistic than LeBron deciding to stay in his hometown and the better team with Cousins, Love, Thomas, Crowder, Thompson, etc?
 
BonesJones said:
I figured you'd suggest this. The media is pushing this because that's what the media wants. Location doesn't matter for a family man who's brand is global. So why else would he want to go to one of the worst teams in the league? You also realize he'd only be able to bring one of those guys?

That's more unrealistic than LeBron deciding to stay in his hometown and the better team with Cousins, Love, Thomas, Crowder, Thompson, etc?
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Because it wouldn’t be one of the worst teams in the league if he and signed there and brought his buddies along with some of the good young players they already have. I just find it hard to believe that all of the banana boat crew just happened to make sure they could all be UFA’s this summer without a plan to join forces. Lebron has been vocal about not liking ownership in Cleveland, didn’t his first stint and doesn’t now.

I’m not saying it’s a sure thing but at this point I’d say it has just as good of a chance of happening as him staying in Cleveland. And that makes putting ALL of your eggs in the Lebron basket way too risky for a franchise and a city that was dog shit before Lebron arrived.
 
AFully22 said:
Because it wouldn’t be one of the worst teams in the league if he and signed there and brought his buddies along with some of the good young players they already have. I just find it hard to believe that all of the banana boat crew just happened to make sure they could all be UFA’s this summer without a plan to join forces. Lebron has been vocal about not liking ownership in Cleveland, didn’t his first stint and doesn’t now.

I’m not saying it’s a sure thing but at this point I’d say it has just as good of a chance of happening as him staying in Cleveland. And that makes putting ALL of your eggs in the Lebron basket way too risky for a franchise and a city that was dog shit before Lebron arrived.
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There's this thing called the salary cap.
 
An all-star wing or young player who well might become that (like Josh Jackson of Phoenix). Or a star who's better than CJ but the team knows it is very likely to lose him in free agency (like Cousins)
 
Oh, so this bullshit is back? CJ trades, huh? Can't think of any realistic trades. Only trades I'd do would be something like:

CJ/Davis for Avery/Drummond
CJ/Davis for Butler/Dieng

Not sure that paying Drummond $24M to be a back-up is a smart move though. But probably better than paying Turner $17M. But then we'd be paying $41M for two bench players!

Fire Stotts, don't trade CJ.
 
For me, it has nothing to do with last night. I just don't believe that this team can be very successful with two small, ball dominant guards that struggle defensively. The longer the season goes, the more it might not be a coincidence that the team's biggest win of the season (decade) was a road game in which only one of them was playing.

Everyone else got more involved and as a team operated better even though none of those players is as good as CJ individually on offense. There were 90 shots taken in that game. 70 of them were taken by players other than the Dynamic Duo. In last night's Philly game, there were 89 shots taken...48 were taken by players other than Dame/CJ.

Harkless may have a point.
 
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