Whats more important...

[UKRAINEFAN]

As I have said before, I think each of them is most effective when he is controlling the ball. However i think there is no problem with them working together. I think the solution is for Miller to play about 20 minutes with the second team and 10 minutes with Roy and the first team. Roy can still dominate at the ends of games but if he gets doubleteamed he's still got Miller there to make something happen.

 

[KingSpeed]

As I have said before, I think each of them is most effective when he is controlling the ball. However i think there is no problem with them working together. I think the solution is for Miller to play about 20 minutes with the second team and 10 minutes with Roy and the first team. Roy can still dominate at the ends of games but if he gets doubleteamed he's still got Miller there to make something happen.

I agree.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I agree.

Thanks; today is one of those days I needed a little bit of validation.

 

[Natebishop3]

Hey, it's just my opinion. If some of you guys want to take personal shots at me, that's fine. I think Oden is more important than Roy in the greater scheme of things, and I think this team needs a point guard who is capable of getting Oden the fucking ball. Steve Blake failed at that task regularly last season. In fact, the only guard who demonstrated ANY ability to feed the post last year was Rudy. Not Roy. Not Steve. Not Sergio. Oden needs touches to be effective. He isn't going to bring the ball up the floor, so he needs someone to feed him in the post, when he has good position. How many times did we see Oden flash through the middle last season without receiving a decent, well-timed pass?

I specifically said I'm not trying to villify Roy. I'm not saying I don't want Roy on the team. I'm saying that I prioritize Oden over Roy for the overall success of this team. If you don't agree with that, that's your opinion. Thanks for once again bringing up my press pass Papa. You love to play the victim on this board, and then you go and bash my opinion and question my credentials. That's real big of you.

 

[blue32]

I think Roy is more important, and a tri-fecta of those three growing and playing together will get us a ring.
my opinion tho. I dont really care about the PG, other than that they can shoot, drive and score when we need the pressure off Roy.

 

[RR7]

Gonna say that Roy is more important to this team. Hypothetically, with Oden as our main guy, who gets the ball in crunch time? Do you go into the post with the game on the line to LMA or Oden? I always hate when people say oh, it's a guard's league, or a big man's league or whatever, but the easiest way to advance in the league is finding a guy like Brandon Roy to lead your team. I know people like to say wings are a dime a dozen, and big men are hard to find, but guards like Brandon Roy are extremely hard to find. I see two in the league, in Kobe and Wade. You win with players like that running your team. It's up to Nate to work out a game plan to get the most out of our star player, and ensure it is a winning game plan. If he can't do that, you find a coach who can, not get rid of the player. I truly believe he can, not meaning that as a negative on Nate.

 

[BrianFromWA]

For the most part I agree with Roy being important to the team, and that we work our offense around him. But in reality he's only entering his 4th year in the league and first with a real-life offensive threat at C and an average-level NBA PG. Who's to say that he doesn't have some molding left in his game. Wasn't MJ in something like his 6th or 7th season when he perfected the fadeaway J and became ridiculous? Didn't K*be work more on his post-up and jumper game well into his 20's? I don't know much about the older school scorers like Gervin, but I'm pretty sure they didn't peak out at 24/25. I think there're still a large number of things Roy can learn, and he's going to get his eyes opened the first few months of the season with just how open he's going to be.

 

[Natebishop3]

Gonna say that Roy is more important to this team. Hypothetically, with Oden as our main guy, who gets the ball in crunch time? Do you go into the post with the game on the line to LMA or Oden? I always hate when people say oh, it's a guard's league, or a big man's league or whatever, but the easiest way to advance in the league is finding a guy like Brandon Roy to lead your team. I know people like to say wings are a dime a dozen, and big men are hard to find, but guards like Brandon Roy are extremely hard to find. I see two in the league, in Kobe and Wade. You win with players like that running your team. It's up to Nate to work out a game plan to get the most out of our star player, and ensure it is a winning game plan. If he can't do that, you find a coach who can, not get rid of the player. I truly believe he can, not meaning that as a negative on Nate.

I hear what you're saying, but I would point to Shaq, Duncan, David Robinson, and Hakeem as perfect examples of big men who led their teams to championships. Sure, you also need that perimeter player like Kobe, or Wade, but it's the big man that really sets your team apart from the rest of the bunch. If Oden is a potential HOF center, he moves to the forefront of team priorities in my mind.

Also, I think we are EXTREMELY luck to have Aldridge as well. I hope to see him continue to improve, and re-sign soon.

 

[hasoos]

Miller only had 1.4 assists (and 0.4 turnovers) more than Roy last season.

One was on a running team, one was not. So does the comparison still hold water?

 

[PapaG]

I hear what you're saying, but I would point to Shaq, Duncan, David Robinson, and Hakeem as perfect examples of big men who led their teams to championships. Sure, you also need that perimeter player like Kobe, or Wade, but it's the big man that really sets your team apart from the rest of the bunch. If Oden is a potential HOF center, he moves to the forefront of team priorities in my mind.

Also, I think we are EXTREMELY luck to have Aldridge as well. I hope to see him continue to improve, and re-sign soon.

None of them played with a Chris Paul-type PG.

Shaq played with elite wing players.

Just saying...

 

[Natebishop3]

None of them played with a Chris Paul-type PG.

Shaq played with elite wing players.

Just saying...

Miller isn't a Chris Paul-type player either. Nobody in the NBA is on Paul's level imo.

Shaq played with Penny Hardaway, who I would argue was a very good point guard in his first few years in Orlando.

Avery Johnson in San Antonio and Sam Cassell in Houston.

 

[PapaG]

Miller isn't a Chris Paul-type player either. Nobody in the NBA is on Paul's level imo.

Shaq played with Penny Hardaway, who I would argue was a very good point guard in his first few years in Orlando.

Avery Johnson in San Antonio and Sam Cassell in Houston.

Shaq didn't win a title in Orlando.

Avery Johnson was average, and Sam Cassell wasn't a true PG.

So, about potentially getting rid of Roy...

 

[Natebishop3]

Shaq didn't win a title in Orlando.

Avery Johnson was average, and Sam Cassell wasn't a true PG.

So, about potentially getting rid of Roy...

Who said anything about getting rid of him? I said his comfort zone means less to me than getting Oden involved. Go back and reread.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

I cannot believe this thread. Since when is Roy complaining about "his touches" or "his numbers"? Has he morphed into Zach Randolph when no one was looking? For God's sake, people, he's the best player on the Blazers roster and top 10 in the league. He's on the cusp of Clyde Drexler-ish superstardom, and can be/will be the leader of this team that wins multiple titles. He's also a WINNER, and can't stand losing. And some of you are throwing him under the bus? Incredible.

 

[PapaG]

Who said anything about getting rid of him? I said his comfort zone means less to me than getting Oden involved. Go back and reread.

I would rather see Andre Miller play, Greg Oden flourish, and Aldridge reach his potential, while winning a championship. If Brandon Roy cannot be a part of that, and if he is going to complain about "his game" and "his touches" than he takes a back seat in my mind.

What's the point of this sentence? I found it stupid, as I previously posted.

 

[LittleAlex]

This is all crazy talk. The common formula for a title is to have 3 dominate players on a team at the same time. Right now the three guys Portland is build a foundation around are Roy, LA and Oden. If Portland looses any one of those guys their chances to get a title diminish greatly.

Why even discuss the idea of loosing one of them? If you think Miller is a replacement for Roy, you need to put the crack pipe down.

 

[mook]

Talent rules the NBA. Roy is the most talented player (by a longshot) on the team. He's our only top 10 NBA player. Thus, Roy is what's most important.

However, if Oden also becomes a top 10 NBA player, it's not Roy's team anymore. Dominant centers are just more important to winning championships than dominant shooting guards, assuming similar levels of talent.

At that point, if it comes to finding complementary players for Roy or Oden, we'll go for the players that best fit Oden. If it comes down to a personality dispute between Roy and Oden (akin to the dispute between Shaq and Kobe) we'll choose Oden. (The only reason the Lakers chose Kobe is that Shaq was so much older.)

I don't think either will ever happen, though.

Roy's biggest asset is his versatility. I don't really know what a complementary player to Roy looks like, because it implies there are holes in his game others could fill. Any non-shooting guard with talent can be a complementary player to Roy. So really it boils down already to finding players who fit Oden.

I doubt we'll ever have the Shaq/Kobe-level feuds, either. Neither guy has demonstrated anything close to the egos those guys have, even when Shaq and Kobe were rookies.

I don't think anything I've posted here would be disagreeable to Nate or the people he's arguing with.

 

[Natebishop3]

Holy shit, I'm not throwing Roy under the bus, I'm not saying we should trade him, and I'm not saying Miller is a replacement for Roy.

 

[PapaG]

Holy shit, I'm not throwing Roy under the bus, I'm not saying we should trade him, and I'm not saying Miller is a replacement for Roy.

If Brandon Roy cannot be a part of that, and if he is going to complain about "his game" and "his touches" than he takes a back seat in my mind.

So, is this just a negative strawman created to start a thread?

 

[Natebishop3]

So, is this just a negative strawman created to start a thread?

It's what I said it is. Some people are saying maybe Miller shouldn't start because he and Roy might not be able to coexist. I'm saying that Roy might have to take a backseat if Miller starting helps Oden and Aldridge.

Taking a backseat means Roy might not be completely in his comfort zone. Might not be able to dominate the ball like he does. I don't understand how that can be taken as trading him or throwing him under the bus.

 

[PapaG]

It's what I said it is. Some people are saying maybe Miller shouldn't start because he and Roy might not be able to coexist. I'm saying that Roy might have to take a backseat if Miller starting helps Oden and Aldridge.

Taking a backseat means Roy might not be completely in his comfort zone. Might not be able to dominate the ball like he does. I don't understand how that can be taken as trading him or throwing him under the bus.

I'm trying to figure out Roy needs to take a backseat when he just signed a max extension, but whatever.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm trying to figure out Roy needs to take a backseat when he just signed a max extension, but whatever.

Okay you keep trying to figure that out and then you get back to me

 

[rocketeer]

It's what I said it is. Some people are saying maybe Miller shouldn't start because he and Roy might not be able to coexist. I'm saying that Roy might have to take a backseat if Miller starting helps Oden and Aldridge.

some people are saying that miller shouldn't start because it will be best for the team to bring him off the bench. you're suggesting that even if it's best for the team to bring miller off the bench, he should start because it would be stupid otherwise.

 

[Todd]

Okay you keep trying to figure that out and then you get back to me

Dude, it's homer brain syndrome...lol

You have tread on hallowed ground with a hypothetical analogy, now the homers are going to and bash you for even thinking such things

 

[Natebishop3]

some people are saying that miller shouldn't start because it will be best for the team to bring him off the bench. you're suggesting that even if it's best for the team to bring miller off the bench, he should start because it would be stupid otherwise.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying, IF Miller is one of the keys to Oden's improvement, which I think he will be, then I think it will be best for the team if he starts along with Oden. I think Oden's development is paramount. However, we haven't seen enough of Miller and Oden to make a definite conclusion at this point.

Nowhere did I say that Miller should start, regardless.