Wheels' hunch

[Fez Hammersticks]

He thinks the Blazers/Jazz are talking sign-and-trade for Millsap.

A move that will save them from being in such luxury tax hell.

A player I would target is Kyle Korver. He's a pure shooting SF that can't create his own shot, just park him outside and let him shoot threes all day. That's what McMillan tried to turn Rudy into last year. Korver sounds like the perfect SF for Nate's system.

 

[RickyRubio]

What would the trade be?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Um - remember that WE would be ending up with Millsap ANYWAY. How would doing a sign-and-trade save Utah any money? Doesn't it actually cost them more money than just letting him walk?

If you mean that the BLAZERS sign Millsap and then send him to Utah - that can't be done. You can only sign and trade your own free agents.

 

[hasoos]

And the last time Wheels was right about anything like this was...never.

 

[RickyRubio]

And the last time Wheels was right about anything like this was...never.

True. Wheels is never right. Except about being a fatty.

 

[RoyToy]

You criticize KP and then make this trade suggestion?

Only on this forum.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Hollinger envisioned this:

I still think a sign-and-trade of Millsap and Harpring for Outlaw and the rights to Freeland and/or Koponen is a great deal for both sides -- preserves some cap for Portland while getting their player, and gets Utah out from the tax man.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/27361

 

[Crimson the Cat]

See this is brilliant because then Portland can start the deal at $7.7 with 10% increases and keep our overseas guys, which also preserving some cap space.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

With this we could provide a 5-year/$46M deal.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

If we kept the deal at Outlaw straight across for Millsap, we'd still keep $3.6M in spending money.

 

[RoyToy]

You're having quite the conversation.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Um - remember that WE would be ending up with Millsap ANYWAY. How would doing a sign-and-trade save Utah any money? Doesn't it actually cost them more money than just letting him walk?

If you mean that the BLAZERS sign Millsap and then send him to Utah - that can't be done. You can only sign and trade your own free agents.

I think the point is, we send them someone like Outlaw or Blake, and *our* salary cap hit is roughly $4million less then if we signed him as a FA

 

[Reep]

Can anyone help me undestand why Utah would do this? So, they help a conference rival snag their promising young PF, while believing that they will likely lose their starting PF after next season. And they do this for Outlaw?

I can see Utah signing Milsap and eating the tax, or signing Milsap and trading Boozer for cap space, or trading Milsap for other value. I just can't see it happening for Outlaw. I hope everyone would shut up about KP if he pulls this one off. Turning Outlaw into Milsap would rank second to only his turning a bunch of junk into Roy and Aldridge.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

You're having quite the conversation.

The Cat and I do have some stimulating talks sometimes.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Um - remember that WE would be ending up with Millsap ANYWAY. How would doing a sign-and-trade save Utah any money? Doesn't it actually cost them more money than just letting him walk?

If you mean that the BLAZERS sign Millsap and then send him to Utah - that can't be done. You can only sign and trade your own free agents.

I don't think Utah's going to find a taker for Boozer without our help. If we won't help, they're stuck with him, which isn't that bad of a situation for them. They have to choose one or the other anyway.

By doing a sign-and-trade, they at least don't let Millsap go for nothing. They take back Outlaw, end up paying about $4M in luxury tax instead of $20M.

 

[LittleAlex]

Can anyone help me undestand why Utah would do this? So, they help a conference rival snag their promising young PF, while believing that they will likely lose their starting PF after next season. And they do this for Outlaw?

I can see Utah signing Milsap and eating the tax, or signing Milsap and trading Boozer for cap space, or trading Milsap for other value. I just can't see it happening for Outlaw. I hope everyone would shut up about KP if he pulls this one off. Turning Outlaw into Milsap would rank second to only his turning a bunch of junk into Roy and Aldridge.

It would be equivalent of turning lead into gold.

And yes, if KP can turn Outlaw into Milsap I will feel stupid about doubting KP's magic touch. After a move such as that, I would drink deeply of the Kool Aide and assume everything he ever did afterwards was for the best.

This isn't sarcasm. I would really feel that way. I can't imagine a scenario where Utah turns productive power forward Milsap into scoring powerless forward Outlaw. He would have to use some serious Jedi shit to make that happen.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Utah can either keep both Millsap and Boozer (keeping Millsap at the cost we designate which will be high) and pay over $12M in luxury tax, more if they have to sign more than 12 players.

Utah can keep Millsap and move Boozer for the player/s we designate, and pay about $3M in tax.

Utah can keep Boozer and either let Millsap walk (pay about $3M in tax) or do a sign-and-trade with us and get a cheap asset out of the deal and pay about $6M in tax (if they send out Millsap and take Outlaw) or even less, as much as no tax, if they do the same deal but move Harpring as well, or $1M if they move Korver as well.

See the benefits to them.

 

[Reep]

It would be equivalent of turning lead into gold.

And yes, if KP can turn Outlaw into Milsap I will feel stupid about doubting KP's magic touch. After a move such as that, I would drink deeply of the Kool Aide and assume everything he ever did afterwards was for the best.

This isn't sarcasm. I would really feel that way. I can't imagine a scenario where Utah turns productive power forward Milsap into scoring powerless forward Outlaw. He would have to use some serious Jedi shit to make that happen.

It just shows how much stuff goes on in these situations. It probably won't happen, but if Portland gets Milsap out of this it would be after several other cap room teams spent their money, the remaining teams were not interested, and they manuevered Utah into the equivalent of a knight fork.

[In chess, a fork is a tactic that uses one piece to attack two or more of the opponent's pieces at the same time, hoping to achieve material gain (by capturing one of the opponent's pieces) because the opponent can only counter one of the two (or more) threats. ]

O'Connor: Draw? You've got to be kidding.
Pritchard: You've lost. You just don't know it.
O'Connor: I've lost?
Pritchard: Look at the board.
O'Connor: I have.
Pritchard: Take the draw, and we'll share the championship.
Take the draw. [Move] Check. Good game.

 

[hasoos]

Utah can either keep both Millsap and Boozer (keeping Millsap at the cost we designate which will be high) and pay over $12M in luxury tax, more if they have to sign more than 12 players.

Utah can keep Millsap and move Boozer for the player/s we designate, and pay about $3M in tax.

Utah can keep Boozer and either let Millsap walk (pay about $3M in tax) or do a sign-and-trade with us and get a cheap asset out of the deal and pay about $6M in tax (if they send out Millsap and take Outlaw) or even less, as much as no tax, if they do the same deal but move Harpring as well, or $1M if they move Korver as well.

See the benefits to them.

Or they can keep both, and pay the luxury tax for one year and then let Boozer and some other contracts leave, and only have to eat it for one year.

 

[Reep]

A lot of this depends on how they see Boozer. If by his not opting out they see this as a sign he likes the Jazz and they have a good chance of resigning him, then it makes sense. If they believe he will be gone in the FA market of 2010, then I would think they would be more interested in keeping Milsap.

 

[e_blazer]

What if the Blazers were targeting Kirilenko? A trade of Outlaw, Webster, 7.7 mil in current cap space plus $824,200 in additional cap space by renouncing either Koponen or Freeland would work. That would let the Jazz resign Millsap and hold on to Boozer while putting them under the tax threshhold.

Any Kirilenko fans out there?

 

[SodaPopinski]

If we're to believe the info coming out of the Jazz camp, it's that they value Millsap much more than Boozer. I find it hard to believe they'd be amenable to a S&T sending him to us.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Or they can keep both, and pay the luxury tax for one year and then let Boozer and some other contracts leave, and only have to eat it for one year.

They won't be paying that much in tax. No way. They didn't become the quality franchise they are by making poor decisions. You do realize the state of the economy, right. Now's not the time to make THAT sort of irresponsible decision, especially when your ownership just transitioned.

 

[Reep]

What if the Blazers were targeting Kirilenko? A trade of Outlaw, Webster, 7.7 mil in current cap space plus $824,200 in additional cap space by renouncing either Koponen or Freeland would work. That would let the Jazz resign Millsap and hold on to Boozer while putting them under the tax threshhold.

Any Kirilenko fans out there?

Not anymore. The year before his max contract I liked him. He pretty much fell apart after that.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

If we're to believe the info coming out of the Jazz camp, it's that they value Millsap much more than Boozer. I find it hard to believe they'd be amenable to a S&T sending him to us.

They may like Millsap more, but I guessing the don't like losing loads of money either. Unless they can get OKC to take on Boozer or facilitate a deal, they're stuck with doing what they want.

 

[ODENISGOD]

WHEELS SHOULD STICK TO BUTTER AND FUDGE AND STOP WITH THE PREDICTIONS

 

[Ed O]

What if the Blazers were targeting Kirilenko? A trade of Outlaw, Webster, 7.7 mil in current cap space plus $824,200 in additional cap space by renouncing either Koponen or Freeland would work. That would let the Jazz resign Millsap and hold on to Boozer while putting them under the tax threshhold.

Any Kirilenko fans out there?

I think if Portland were willing to take on his contract he would have been a Blazer yesterday. Or last year.

Kirilenko at a Webster/Bass-like salary makes sense. At his current salary? Over $34m for two seasons is ridiculous.

Ed O.

 

[e_blazer]

Not anymore. The year before his max contract I liked him. He pretty much fell apart after that.

Yeah, he hasn't been much the past couple of seasons. One nice thing about him though is that his contract would come off of the books in two season...about the time the Blazers could use some relief to avoid luxury tax problems of their own and at a time when Batum should be reaching his stride and Claver would be ready to come over.

Still...seems like a stretch.

 

[hasoos]

WHEELS SHOULD STICK TO BUTTER AND FUDGE AND STOP WITH THE PREDICTIONS

Oh yea your a winner.

Just because the guy isn't very good at predictions, doesn't mean he isn't a pretty cool dude in every day life, no need for this shit.

 

[Nikolokolus]

WHEELS SHOULD STICK TO BUTTER AND FUDGE AND STOP WITH THE PREDICTIONS

That's better, I couldn't quite make out what you were trying to say.