SharpeScooterShooter
SharpeShooter
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Id counter that with the sam bowie and greg oden draft years.
Scout better than other teams and number one picks are not needed to win.
When have you been less excited for the start of a Blazers season?
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Id counter that with the sam bowie and greg oden draft years.
Scout better than other teams and number one picks are not needed to win.
SharpeScooterShooter
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And some posters have no clue how they have been given special treatment. Running around the forum chasing people around a basketball forum for no basketball reason other than to create drama. Nothing to do with basketball just trying to stir the pot.
They come down on others for posting how bad the city is by posting their own rich ass neighborhood, as if everyone in portland lives in an area like that.
They chase people around deliberately calling them names they have been asked not to.
Some people are just clueless to what common folk deal with on a daily basis because they are spoiled and treated differently.
Thats what some of this thread reminds me…..
And for the record KJ. I asked for this moniker name change. I didnt create it to sneak back in here…im not trying to hide who i am.
But you are right. I cant hide who i am because im not some fake. I am who i am.
Some people respect that. Some people respect passive aggressive, fake posters more. i prefer blunt honesty.
To each their own….
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STOMP
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Thats a poor counter argument. No amount of scouting could foresee Bowie or Oden's future injuries. Both were incredible talents who physically just couldn't hold up to the pounding of running and jumping on the hardcourt. And to head you off on the but but but they got injured in college so the staff should have known it would happen again, lots of guys (like Dame for one) suffered bad injuries in college and yet went on to enjoy long successful careers. Hell, MJ broke his foot his 2nd year in the league. Every single player gets injured as people are fragile, some are more so then others. I'm pretty sure teams are limited in their access to draft prospects medicals. If they could get to perform full body MRI type scans on players to check for bone density and skeletal alignment that would help, but I don't think thats the case. Thorough medical exams might have helped avoid drafting your two examples, but again I don't think teams have that sort of access or that medical science was that advanced back in Bowie's day. Luck still plays a role
STOMP
SharpeScooterShooter
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Im pretty sure there was talk about Oden having one leg shorter than the other, prior to being drafted?
The fact remains tanking hard for the number one pick is still a crapshoot.
In this discussion we have three number ones. One panned out and two didn't. 33% chance. And thats IF you luck into a number one pick.
You are validating my opinion that tanking hard until we land a generational talent or land a number one pick is just as much crapshoot as just being bad but playing hard and landing where you land in the draft, but scouting better than others.
My point stands.
History is black and white and defies odds and percentages all the time.
you guys are helping his argument though! do you guys realize that?
wizenheimer
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of course it's making the right pick...who the fuck is arguing in favor of wasting a top-5 pick? And I wasn't really coming down on one side of that particular argument or the other
what people are advocating for is priority #1 is Portland adding some elite talent, and it's a lot easier to add elite talent with a top-7 or top-3 pick than with a pick outside the lottery or at the back end of the lottery. Brandon Roy 6th pick; Aldridge 2nd pick; Dame 6th pick (and Blazers could have had Chris Paul with a 3rd pick). The other side of that coin: Sebastian Talfaire 13th pick; Jerryd Bayless 11th pick; Luke Babbitt - 16th pick; Meyers Leonard 11th pick
We all know that the Blazers will not be signing any elite talent; that path is closed. So that leaves trades and draft picks. As for trades, the last 'elite' talent Portland landed in a player trade was Scottie Pippen 25 years ago; and Rasheed 28 years ago. And the reality is that Pippen was 34 and Rasheed, while a 4-time all-star, was not really elite. And of course those deals were made about 4-5 CBA's ago and trade rules have changed pretty dramatically since then....and Portland doesn't have Paul Allen or Bob Whitsitt
so then, if free agency is off the table, and trades are teetering on the edge, the only remaining path is draft picks and that path needs to run thru a series of high draft picks in order to offset the inevitable mistakes. Whether it's the bones of Sam Bowie & Greg Oden; or the brain of Ben Simmons; or the mirages of Larue Martin & Anthony Bennett, there will be dice rolls that crap out. So it's important to roll those dice several times. Otherwise, the Blazers will end up with boring, flawed, 4th tier players like Simons-Grant-Ayton as their best players, only capable of leading the Blazers to perpetual Purgatory
kjironman1
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It was a jab at the HCP brother. And by the way he lives in Grant district though it does have some nice spots. That is not a "Rich Ass" neighborhood. He knows exactly what that area is all about. I don't have to defend HCP he can do that himself but I will defend Portland. It's a great city and a wonderful place to live with some of the best people in the country. It went through some growing pains for a while. City leaders made some mistakes they are now doing a bunch to fix.
Now how did that Moniker change work out for you? I got no animosity toward you at all bro. Seriously none. One of the nicest guys I've ever dealt with and truly a very giving member of this forum.
My suggestion is bury the hatchet and move along then let some stuff go. I certainly had to learn to. I used to get caught up in huge back and forth conversations. @Phatguysrule is a great poster here. He has a bunch to add. Yes he has his way. We don't agree on guns. I just let that shot go and actually just got off the OT altogether.
Hope you have a good day and I had some fab I needed done and couldn't reach that number I had? Wondering If it changed?
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SharpeScooterShooter
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This is what it comes down to. Hard tanking for a number one or generational talent is all but ensuring a losing team for many years and its still a crapshoot to get either the number one or a gen talent.
Where as its still a crapshoot and requires luck to field a competitive team and then somehow find the pieces needed to take it to the next level and win a ring. But this way provides a team that goes to the playoffs more often than not and wins more often than not.
Some people believe that both paths are a crapshoot and so would rather be competitive and go to the playoffs than be a cellar dweller year after year.
This isn't an “illogical” thought. This isn't “living in your own reality”. This isn't an “uneducated” post.
This is personal preference to what the team should do.
Some people are not capable of understanding there can be more than one valid opinion and tend to belittle others who don't share their opinion.
If we would all be more tolerant(including myself) of others’ opinions without trying to minimize theirs and shovel yours down everyones throats, this place would be much more pleasant.
Where as its still a crapshoot and requires luck to field a competitive team and then somehow find the pieces needed to take it to the next level and win a ring. But this way provides a team that goes to the playoffs more often than not and wins more often than not.
Some people believe that both paths are a crapshoot and so would rather be competitive and go to the playoffs than be a cellar dweller year after year.
This isn't an “illogical” thought. This isn't “living in your own reality”. This isn't an “uneducated” post.
This is personal preference to what the team should do.
Some people are not capable of understanding there can be more than one valid opinion and tend to belittle others who don't share their opinion.
If we would all be more tolerant(including myself) of others’ opinions without trying to minimize theirs and shovel yours down everyones throats, this place would be much more pleasant.
SharpeScooterShooter
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All good. Just tired of the constant passive aggressive comments from that guy anytime I have any type of disagreement with someone else. It’s near stalker like vibes….has nothing to do with basketball and is only trying to create drama, which is what i was banned for previously. He doesn't understand he is doing the very thing that got me banned.
If anyone needs to learn to move on, its him.
Mediocre Man
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Wow, you’re so good at always finding a way to make everything about you without even trying!
jk
I just wanted to get in on the passive aggressiveness
Hoopguru
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Phatguysrule
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The goal of tanking is obviously to get a generational talent. But that's not where it ends. On average you are going to get a better player in the draft by drafting higher than lower. If you are a young teem it behoves you to draft higher because that is an opportunity that you will never have again with this young group. You have to strike while the iron's hot if you want to maximize the potential of your team.
Just getting the number one pick isn't enough. You have to surround that player with talent. If you're picking higher in the draft you're going to surround that player with better talent than if you are picking lower in the draft.
If you are using middle-aged players to win games that your younger players wouldn't use you are hurting your future actively by putting less talent on the roster that you intend to compete with.
It is not get "generational player or number one pick or bust". Even if you don't get those players you are still getting better talent than if you had middle-aged players winning you games that your younger players wouldn't have won.
Keeping those middle-aged players is actively hurting your team's future.
Phatguysrule
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Nobody is arguing #1 or bust. Nobody is saying we have to get a #1 or #2. Or that we should tank perpetually until we do.
Hoopguru
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Very few won one with the team that drafted them.
Phatguysrule
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Then I don't know why you're arguing because nobody is arguing to do what you were arguing against.
Players can have one leg longer than the other and have a long career. Most people have one leg longer than the other. You get orthotics to adjust for it if it causes you too many problems.
For example, Usain Bolt's running gait is asymmetrical due to scoliosis, which has resulted in his left leg being longer than his right leg.
Bill Rodgers, the famous marathoner who won the Boston and New York City marathons multiple times; he has one leg that is shorter than the other by about half an inch.
You just can't know how it'll turn out. To best maximize your odds of success you need to do it multiple times consecutively.
This is the argument for moving off of the middle-aged players that will win us games we don't care about, thereby hurting our draft lottery odds.
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Phatguysrule
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But most of them who were traded brought back value to the team that drafted them.
That's the point. That draft pick is a valuable asset. It's more valuable the closer to #1 that it is.
STOMP
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Nope. If that it had been the case that one leg was substantially longer then the other (& I'm not aware of any credible report that this is actually so) then it would have been spoken of prior to the draft everywhere including here and it just wasn't. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that individual teams may have had such information (or suspicions) internally as they have much more insider intel and medical experts, but it absolutely was not the case that this was being spoken of prior to the draft. The first I started hearing this rumor was after Oden's first major injury as a PTB
What I do recall from the lead up to that draft was a poll from unnamed front office people from around the league overwhelmingly saying that they'd choose Oden over KD
Sorry, but I can't help you understand basic math/odds. Yes there are exceptions to most rules, but franchises tank for very obvious reasons. Teams have better chances of landing better players if they get to select from all the players not just whats left. Sure some guys are late bloomers or slip through the cracks & good scouting absolutely matters but in general your point is ridiculous
STOMP
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Hoopguru
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A good many of those trades didn't make those teams contenders.
Phatguysrule
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Most trades don't. Most single drafts or acquisitions don't make teams contenders.
Just like Dame didn't make us a contender.
But nobody is saying a single draft, player, or trade is going to make us contenders.
What most contenders have in common is that they have more top to bottom talent than the teams who aren't contenders.
Portland doesn't have great ownership. We don't have proven management. We aren't a destination city. We don't have a great coaching staff. The argument could be pretty easily made that we're below average in all of those categories.
We do have a well respected draft analyst. That's about it.
Shouldn't we maximize the ability and impact of our only perceived strength? Anything else seems like insanity to me.
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I’m not sure if you read it the first time, but I said I’m done in any actual discussions with you, it’s a complete waste of time imo.
It's getting quite odd now, I was replying to someone else, not you, thanks
Phatguysrule
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You're replying in a public forum. That means it's a community discussion.
If you want to have a private conversation the forum offers the ability to directly message whoever you like and nobody else can see.
I would suggest you take advantage of that feature if you want a private conversation so we won't be forced to deal with you crying like a little girl.
SharpeScooterShooter
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I think @SharpesTriumph new exactly what he or she was thinking when creating this thread. Lol.
I would suggest you don't live on this forum and feel the need to post 24/7 like you do nothing else but sit on this forum all day.
It's funny I don't even have to say much and you get riled up like a 'crying little girl'. Move along bro, no body has time for you childishness.
Phatguysrule
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jlprk
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I hadn't noticed this. They are separate posters! I learn something useful every day.
Didn't know this either. Who are you?
SharpeScooterShooter
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BlazerBender
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There used to be a notorious poster from Bend on the O-Live boards by the name of BendBlazer, but the artist-formerly-known-as-Blazer-Bender is a distinctly different personality.
kjironman1
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Do you remember "The Stipulation"? BendBlazer was tough to like but Stip at least had a decent side and actually liked the Blazers.
Phatguysrule
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Odds of drafting an NBA All-Star at different draft positions:
Top Picks
Later First Round
If your best internal capability is scouting and judging how successful draft picks will be, it is clear that your best opportunity to find success is to draft as high as possible.
Top Picks
- 1st overall pick: 65.33% chance of becoming an All-Star
- 2nd overall pick: 42.67% chance
- 3rd overall pick: 45.33% chance
- 4th overall pick: 34.21% chance
- Overall, lottery picks (1-14) have a 28.3% chance of becoming an All-Star
Later First Round
- Picks 15-30 have an 8.2% chance of becoming an All-Star
- Second round picks have a 2.6% chance of becoming an All-Star
If your best internal capability is scouting and judging how successful draft picks will be, it is clear that your best opportunity to find success is to draft as high as possible.