When is dominating the ball "over dribbling"

[Pinwheel1]

I bring this up because fans of every team complain when a PG's over dribbles. (Sergio, Telfair etc.) John Stockton and Steve Nash often dribbled for much of the time clock and ended up with an assist. Brandon often does the same. Bayless did it last night.

Personally I have no problem with it. (Not on every play of course.) But last night when Bayless penetrated and could not get his shot, he circled under the basket and often found an open man because of his threat to score the ball.. Nash does this all the time.

So did Sergio and Telfair over dribble? Or was it the fact that they couldn't score on their own enough to keep the defenses honest?

I often wonder because some of the greats in the game "over dribbled" by some fan's definition. In reality it is not really the dribbling part that pisses fans off, its the lack of production of the offense.

I bring this up because Bayless needs to "over dribble to effective. Just like Roys does. And as stated in another post, I would like to see them alternate doing so. It would keep the defenses from double teaming either one. And as I see it, the only way you will stop these guys is by double teaming them. But if they are both on the court at the same time....who do you choose? Just spread the floor like they did last night and let them attack.

 

[hasoos]

For me personally it is when they are pounding the ball and there is no movement. If they are dribbling the ball, but they and other players are moving well in order to set something up, I have no problem with it. To me, the key to offense is movement, it doesn't matter if it is a pass or dribbling.

 

[REDIVIDER]

over dribbling is when you dribble too much east/west and not enough north/south. not being able to score on one's own is related to overdribbling. if you dribble x amount of time, but aren't good enough to penetrate with your dribble, you're going to be dribbling side to side, and thus overdribbling. sergio rodriguez, who you mention, is indeed a master at this skill. another expert is kevin ollie.

and indeed, the 'lack of production' is of course what is upsetting, but when that 'lack of production' physically manifests itself in the form of a player dribbling side to side east/west far too much instead of going to the basket or passing to other players who can actually create their own shot, that 'lack of production' is referred to by exactly what it is, which is over dribbling.

 

[RR7]

I agree with hasoos, and to add, it's also what that player is doing while dribbling. Sergio would often just go back and forth along the 3 point line, weakly using one pick after another, and then attacking with 5 seconds left, in an oh shit, clock is running out mode. Blake to a lesser extent uses this same style, where I look up, and we are entering our pass into the post with 10-11 seconds left on the shot clock, meaning it somehow took him 14 seconds to get up the court and get the ball inside. And then it leads, after the kick out, to a scramble to beat the clock. Bayless over dribbling seemed more like prodding the defense. Like throwing out weak jabs in a boxing match. Jab. Did you flinch? No. Ok. Jab. No flinch. Jab. Flinch? Bam! Cross. dribble, dribble, attack.

 

[Minstrel]

"Over"-anything is when you do it to the detriment to the team. If you dribble out 23 seconds of every shot-clock but your team always gets a great, open shot in that final second, it's not over-dribbling. If you dribble for 5 seconds each possession but consistently lose the ball on a turnover, you're over-dribbling. It's not a time standard, it's a "are you helping or hurting your team?" standard.

Stockton and Nash help their teams score when they dribble. Damon Stoudamire didn't. Regardless of how long each of those three players dribbled the ball, the first two were not over-dribbling and Stoudamire was.

 

[REDIVIDER]

one superstar who started his career as a chronic overdribbler is kobe bryant. in recent years his possessions have gotten shorter and more effective, and so has his production.

 

[STOMP]

Q? When is dominating the ball "over dribbling"?

when other players stop cutting and just watch. The ball needs to move to keep everyone involved

STOMP

 

[Nikolokolus]

Q? When is dominating the ball "over dribbling"?

when other players stop cutting and just watch. The ball needs to move to keep everyone involved

STOMP

+1 Dribbling and moving should be done in a way to move defenses, if a player is just dribbling because he can't figure out what he wants to do with the ball and he's not setting anybody up (including himself) then it's being done wrong.

 

[blue32]

dominating the ball to me is when the PG can't make something happen in the first 17 or so seconds, while still having the ball, then finally making a desperate attempt at a score late-late-late in the shot clock.