Whiteside can not be traded.

[hoopsjock]

I've lost track of what is being argued here, but if anybody is claiming that somehow Portland can trade for Harrell by giving up a draft pick, and a couple of low level rotation players....yeah, that ain't happening, and is just rose-colored pipe-dreams. I'd be really skeptical about the notion that LAC is even looking to move Harrell, but if they are, teams will be lining up with better packages than what Portland can give. And if LAC is actually trading Harrell now, stupidly, because they can't afford re-sign him, then Whiteside wouldn't be much of an option, especially considering they'd have to gut their depth just to match salary

Exactly, it's called common sense.

I don't know. It's mostly just expirings for expirings. Maybe they see their future as a defensive juggernaut. I think Cup might be right; we don't know what they are thinking. I think Cup is making a valiant effort to show that your blanket statement that it can't be done might be an overstatement?

It's all just speculation by any of us so no reason to try and speak for the Clippers or any team for that matter. Draft picks can also be involved as well as a 3rd team. I never thought the Clips would do Outlaw and Blake for Camby, but they did as well as many deals over the years.

Ah, but I do know that the Clippers wouldn't be interested in that trade. Maybe if we were talking about the Knicks I could go along with the Kevin Garnett "ANYTHING IS POSSSSSSIBLE!" line of thinking but it's extremely obvious in this case what the Clippers would be looking for and this ain't it.

 

[hoopsjock]

I agree to a degree, but...that 2015-16 Warrior team needed 7 games to beat OKC and lost the finals to Cleveland and went 15-9, so they weren't unbeatable at all in the playoffs. The next season was when they were nearly unbeatable and went 16-1 in the playoffs. Blazers weren't the only team they swept

In the case of the 2016-17 Warriors we were so thin up front after losing both Nurk and Ed. The one game Nurk played in on one leg we were blowing GS out until he couldn't play anymore (sound familiar? lol). It's hard to count that one too negatively though.

what bothers me was that the Warriors exposed the weaknesses in the Blazer roster and the Blazer schemes in those 1st two series....and nothing was done to correct them. All the Pelicans had to do was use the Warrior template and they coasted to a sweep. And last year, the Warriors were back doing the same thing that worked against Portland the three previous playoffs, and the Blazers had no answer. I mean, both the Clippers and the Rockets were able to get 2 wins against the Warriors, but Portland couldn't get even one the 3rd time they had faced the Warriors. That's kind of why I don't have much patience with the excuses

So tell me again why you blame Olshey for this and not Stotts?

 

[hoopsjock]

C'mon guys, this is the logic you're using...

Hoopsjock: The Lakers would never trade Anthony Davis for Hassan Whiteside.

@CupWizier and @UKRAINEFAN: There's no way to know what they'd do, see it works in the trade machine! Therefore, you can't say it's impossible!

 

[kjironman1]

C'mon guys, this is the logic you're using...

Hoopsjock: The Lakers would never trade Anthony Davis for Hassan Whiteside.

@CupWizier and @UKRAINEFAN: There's no way to know what they'd do, see it works in the trade machine! Therefore, you can't say it's impossible!

First off Hassan Whiteside WILL be traded. No he will not be traded to the Clippers or Lakers.
Second. Any other part of the conversation really doesn't make sense yet because drastic changes can happen right up to the trade deadline. Also every day they have Whiteside is another day Nurk can recover.
There is a risk involved however. Injuries can open up opportunities as well as diminish them.
At this point Olshey will sit and wait this out and see what could be available in Feb. That is the smart move. But yes there will most definitely be a move.

 

[CupWizier]

C'mon guys, this is the logic you're using...

Hoopsjock: The Lakers would never trade Anthony Davis for Hassan Whiteside.

@CupWizier and @UKRAINEFAN: There's no way to know what they'd do, see it works in the trade machine! Therefore, you can't say it's impossible!

It's fine to have an opinion on trades but one should never try and speak as if they know what a team will do. Have you ever seen a trade that made you question why that was done? In my years i have seen many and the Blake/ Outlaw for Camby was one.

 

[hoopsjock]

First off Hassan Whiteside WILL be traded. No he will not be traded to the Clippers or Lakers.
Second. Any other part of the conversation really doesn't make sense yet because drastic changes can happen right up to the trade deadline. Also every day they have Whiteside is another day Nurk can recover.
There is a risk involved however. Injuries can open up opportunities as well as diminish them.
At this point Olshey will sit and wait this out and see what could be available in Feb. That is the smart move. But yes there will most definitely be a move.

I'm not sure why this was directed at me unless you are misunderstanding my post.

 

[kjironman1]

I'm not sure why this was directed at me unless you are misunderstanding my post.

No not directing it at you. Just chiming in and kind of agreeing with you for the most part. Was reading your post when i was thinking is all.

 

[hoopsjock]

It's fine to have an opinion on trades but one should never try and speak as if they know what a team will do. Have you ever seen a trade that made you question why that was done? In my years i have seen many and the Blake/ Outlaw for Camby was one.

You keep bringing up that one trade. Camby was on the trade market. It wasn't a shocker.

Of course there are trades every year that are head scratching. That's not my point. I personally guarantee that if the Clippers make a trade it won't be for expirings, young unproven players, and/or picks unless that player is better than the players they trade. It's not rocket science, just a common sense perspective. You can come at me with trade machine crap showing that they can indeed trade Paul George for Bazemore, Tolliver, and Hezonja or whatever but they would never ever ever do that trade. Technically you'd be right that they "could" do that trade but to argue that stuff is just silly.

 

[hoopsjock]

First off Hassan Whiteside WILL be traded. No he will not be traded to the Clippers or Lakers.
Second. Any other part of the conversation really doesn't make sense yet because drastic changes can happen right up to the trade deadline. Also every day they have Whiteside is another day Nurk can recover.
There is a risk involved however. Injuries can open up opportunities as well as diminish them.
At this point Olshey will sit and wait this out and see what could be available in Feb. That is the smart move. But yes there will most definitely be a move.

I'm not sure what Portland will do. As good as Whiteside has been I don't think it's worth both risking that he'd re-sign and that he'd be happy in a back-up role. I'm definitely in favor of trading him for a wing that can help us in future years and a lesser big man who would serve as a stop gap until Nurk is back to being Nurk. That probably makes us worse this year unless both Nurk and Collins come back and are effective (which is asking a lot) but I don't think this is the time to think shortsightedly with this team.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I agree to a degree, but...that 2015-16 Warrior team needed 7 games to beat OKC and lost the finals to Cleveland and went 15-9, so they weren't unbeatable at all in the playoffs. The next season was when they were nearly unbeatable and went 16-1 in the playoffs. Blazers weren't the only team they swept

what bothers me was that the Warriors exposed the weaknesses in the Blazer roster and the Blazer schemes in those 1st two series....and nothing was done to correct them. All the Pelicans had to do was use the Warrior template and they coasted to a sweep. And last year, the Warriors were back doing the same thing that worked against Portland the three previous playoffs, and the Blazers had no answer. I mean, both the Clippers and the Rockets were able to get 2 wins against the Warriors, but Portland couldn't get even one the 3rd time they had faced the Warriors. That's kind of why I don't have much patience with the excuses



LOL...that's your usual closing statement. If only it were true and you were done with me...then I could be done with you

Those OKC / Cleve teams were better than the Blazers too. Id agree that its frustrating that seemingly the same things are their achilles heel year after year, which is sort of what was dissapointing last year to me. I think being able to put in Hood and Nurk was going to change that way GS in particular wouldve had to guard them. You can all it an excuse I guess, but IMO last years Nurk was clearly their second best player and he was a matchup problem for GS, especially with DMC down. ML had an ok series vs GS but he’s like 1/10th player Nurk is...

Anyways, I guess we can agree to disagree. Also I still think it would be a major mistake to let the 27M of WS go without using it to bring in some long term contracts / players that can help them in the future when they’re hopefully healthy.

 

[wizenheimer]

So tell me again why you blame Olshey for this and not Stotts?

I think it's more roster construction than scheme, but certainly, the iso-heavy Stotts offense leaves Portland more vulnerable to Dame-centric defenses.

as an Olshey supporter, I'd imagine even you might admit that Olshey does seem to have a tendency to force Stotts into playing guys Olshey thinks deserve the playing time. I think that's been part of the issue because Olshey's apparent stubborn insistence that CJ can play PG has kept him from adding somebody that could actually run the offense when a defense forces the ball out of Dame's hands. CJ can run his own offense effectively, some of the time, but not the team's. Turner, and Napier, and Curry couldn't do either that well. And I seriously doubt that Bazemore, Simons, and Hezonja will be any better at it, and most likely worse from what I've seen so far

I suppose some of that is unfair to CJ because it's kind of like blaming him for not being Lebron or Paul George. On the other hand much of it is fair because he's not even a Rondo or a Van Vleet or an Iggy

the roster construction issue is that opposing teams get a 2-for-1 bonus by shutting down Dame: they take out Portland's best scorer, and they take out the only guy who can consistently run the offense. If Dame was paired with Jrue Holiday, or Malcolm Brogdon, or Bradley Beal, or Devin Booker....guys who have proven themselves capable of consistently implementing an offense, the Stop-Dame defense would not be nearly as effective. Even having a SF similar to the Batum of 5 years ago would be an improvement, although it would only be a step in a good direction

 

[CupWizier]

C'mon guys, this is the logic you're using...

Hoopsjock: The Lakers would never trade Anthony Davis for Hassan Whiteside.

@CupWizier and @UKRAINEFAN: There's no way to know what they'd do, see it works in the trade machine! Therefore, you can't say it's impossible!

wow, that's one of the dumbest analogies I have seen in this forum and there have been some real doozies. Comparing Anthony Davis in a trade for Whiteside is similar to a Whiteside package for a Harrell package. Thanks for the pre Christmas chuckle.

 

[hoopsjock]

wow, that's one of the dumbest analogies I have seen in this forum and there have been some real doozies. Comparing Anthony Davis in a trade for Whiteside is similar to a Whiteside package for a Harrell package. Thanks for the pre Christmas chuckle.

Thanks for this post because it proves the point I was making, LMAO.

 

[hoopsjock]

It only proves how obtuse you have been acting today.

I found a photo of your last podcast.

Ohhhhh burn!

 

[CupWizier]

Ohhhhh burn!

have a nice Christmas hoopsjock.

 

[hoopsjock]

have a nice Christmas hoopsjock.

You as well Cup

 

[BonesJones]

I agree to a degree, but...that 2015-16 Warrior team needed 7 games to beat OKC and lost the finals to Cleveland and went 15-9, so they weren't unbeatable at all in the playoffs. The next season was when they were nearly unbeatable and went 16-1 in the playoffs. Blazers weren't the only team they swept

what bothers me was that the Warriors exposed the weaknesses in the Blazer roster and the Blazer schemes in those 1st two series....and nothing was done to correct them. All the Pelicans had to do was use the Warrior template and they coasted to a sweep. And last year, the Warriors were back doing the same thing that worked against Portland the three previous playoffs, and the Blazers had no answer. I mean, both the Clippers and the Rockets were able to get 2 wins against the Warriors, but Portland couldn't get even one the 3rd time they had faced the Warriors. That's kind of why I don't have much patience with the excuses



LOL...that's your usual closing statement. If only it were true and you were done with me...then I could be done with you

Beautifully said.

 

[Lanny]

Depends on our position in the standings and our play at the end of the year. If the Blazers think they can make a run they will keep him.

I certainly hope so.

 

[Phatguysrule]

defining "worthwhile" might be a chore considering what Whiteside's 'worth' is to Portland:

PER:
Hassan Whiteside 25.6 Damian Lillard 24.5 CJ McCollum 17.3 Skal Labissière 15.5 Carmelo Anthony 13.9

TS%:
Hassan Whiteside .645 Rodney Hood .625 Damian Lillard .608 Skal Labissière .588 CJ McCollum .548 Carmelo Anthony .511

FTRate:
Damian Lillard .393 Hassan Whiteside .319 Mario Hezonja .290 Skal Labissière .226 Kent Bazemore .224

rebound rate:
Hassan Whiteside 23.4 Skal Labissière 15.2 Mario Hezonja 13.3 Carmelo Anthony 10.4 Anthony Tolliver 8.9

winshares:
Damian Lillard 4.4 Hassan Whiteside 3.6 CJ McCollum 2.0 Skal Labissière 1.5 Nassir Little 0.4

defensive box plus/minus:
Hassan Whiteside 3.1 Skal Labissière 1.8 Kent Bazemore 0.8 Mario Hezonja 0.0 Nassir Little -0.3

box plus/minus:
Damian Lillard 4.9 Hassan Whiteside 3.5 Skal Labissière 1.6 CJ McCollum 0.2 Kent Bazemore -1.8

winshares/48:
Hassan Whiteside .222 Damian Lillard .205 Skal Labissière .135 Rodney Hood .100 CJ McCollum .090

finding a Whiteside trade that brings in a player better than him seems like a total fantasy. And we've already seen from this current team vs last year's team, that it's a major miscalculation to think the Blazers can dump rebounding and defense for some hypothetical offensive upgrade, and get better. Portland isn't going to be trading Whiteside for Paul George or Pascal Siakam. I think his trade market is going to be fairly unimpressive, and the odds seem really high Portland will get worse after a trade.....at least any trade that seems realistic rather just some wishful thinking

Portland will get worse this season by trading Whiteside. That doesn't mean that we should keep him.

Though a blockbuster including Bazemore as well as Whiteside could net any number of possibilities.

 

[hoopsjock]

Portland will get worse this season by trading Whiteside. That doesn't mean that we should keep him.

Though a blockbuster including Bazemore as well as Whiteside could net any number of possibilities.

I really wish there was a team that wanted to pull a Knicks from last year and do whatever it took to clear salary and gave up a really good player or picks or something to do so. It's unlikely given the free agent class this summer but I'm holding out hope that a team will be dumb anyway.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I really wish there was a team that wanted to pull a Knicks from last year and do whatever it took to clear salary and gave up a really good player or picks or something to do so. It's unlikely given the free agent class this summer but I'm holding out hope that a team will be dumb anyway.

This is how teams like Portland can hope to compete. Stop wasting resources for a chance at free agents.

We need to plan for high dollar expiring contracts and have good relationships with other teams. Then we need to strike when that fire is hot.

If it doesn't happen this year we need to figure out how to push it to next year. Hopefully it happens while Dame is in his prime.

If not, do what Dame wants. If he wants to go to a contender then trade him for the best return you can get and start the process over.

Keep great culture. Bring in former skill players with winning history as coaches and staff. When it's time to reset, tank hard, draft well, trade well, forget free agents.

 

[hoopsjock]

This is how teams like Portland can hope to compete. Stop wasting resources for a chance at free agents.

We need to plan for high dollar expiring contracts and have good relationships with other teams. Then we need to strike when that fire is hot.

If it doesn't happen this year we need to figure out how to push it to next year. Hopefully it happens while Dame is in his prime.

If not, do what Dame wants. If he wants to go to a contender then trade him for the best return you can get and start the process over.

Keep great culture. Bring in former skill players with winning history as coaches and staff. When it's time to reset, tank hard, draft well, trade well, forget free agents.

This is why I'm in favor of trading expirings for guys like Snell, Dieng, and Otto Porter IF they can't make a better trade. All of those guys have expring contracts next year so it keeps the window open to make that type of trade. If we hold on to Whiteside and Bazemore then they'd have trouble matching salary for any big trade next year.