Whither Martell?

[Nikolokolus]

While many were hoping that Webs would finally enjoy that breakout season that has eluded him for the first 3 years of his career (not counting the missed season) it's just not happening this year. With no other available small forwards on this team, there's nobody breathing down his neck to take his position or minutes, it's basically right there for him to seize, but so far through a quarter of a season he's not just looking like old Martell, he's looking almost like rookie Martell.

Personally, I think Martell suffers mostly from confidence issues and has always struggled with the yips (when his shot stops falling for a couple of quarters or games, he starts thinking too much and presses, which leads to more misses). Secondly, no matter how many jumpers he shot while sitting on a stool during his rehab, that missed year is really showing, his timing and focus seem to fluctuate wildly at both ends of the court vacillating between floating for long stretches on both ends punctuated with moments of frenetic weakside shot blocking and attempts to dribble into traffic with mixed results ... although the focus issue seemed to be a problem in his other 3 years on the court, so maybe it's not just the missed year.

So what now? What do people see his future with the team being? Why is he performing so poorly? Is this between the ears, is he still rusty, is he just not very good? Is he even tradeable? And why has his poor play seemingly been off people's radar?

 

[blue32]

Agreed. I am a big Webster supporter, but so far my support has been waning because of the opportunities that he seems to be wasting. I still will give him the entire year though to prove me wrong.

I do like his aggressiveness on defense. If we get Batum back, I see Webster as a role player bench guy....used with Travis (if we keep them both).

If Cunningham explodes, I can see him getting the backup 3 and 4 minutes.

 

[e_blazer]

I'd say you've summarized the situation pretty accurately. He's always been a guy who needs to get his confidence up by hitting his first couple of jumpers and, if he doesn't, he pretty well tightens up and is close to worthless for the rest of the game. He's also suffering badly from his layoff last season. I guess this works out to be the perfect time for him in that, due to loss of players to injury, the coaching staff have no alternatives but to continue to play him. He's either going to turn into a player or be exposed as not being one. Barring a trade, I'd say that this is make or break time for Martell's basketball future.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think some of us have stayed quietly optimistic simply because we hope that passing on Chris Paul or Deron Williams was for nothing.... but it's becoming clearer and clearer that Martell will never be consistent enough to be a starter, and he plays like shit off the bench, so what do you do?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Is there a system in which Webster would flourish? I keep thinking the Suns - lots of open threes, dunks in transition, very little need to create for oneself... I also keep dreaming that they'll give us Robin Lopez and Jared Dudley in return...

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I think it's partly because he is being forced out of his role by all the injuries, and when he fails at his new role, his confidence suffers and he's not even good at his normal role. He is obviously our best perimeter defender for small forwards and big shooting guards though. He has been one of my favorite players, if not my absolute favorite, but when Batum and Outlaw are back (assuming Outlaw will still be with us..) I can't see Martell getting ANY minutes unless he becomes consistent, even if its just consistently average.

 

[mook]

I haven't been a big fan of him for a couple of years now, so I can't say I'm really disappointed this year. As the only functional small forward still standing, though, we can't trade him. And even if we could we'd just get another mediocre player back, possibly at a position where we already have depth.

He's only 23. He still has some upside. I'd be happy to see him thrown in as filler for a significant upgrade at SF, but otherwise we just have to wait.

 

[KingSpeed]

He looked so good in the opener. I don't know what happened after that.

 

[Nikolokolus]

He looked so good in the opener. I don't know what happened after that.

Hasn't that pretty much always been Martell's MO? One great game or quarter every 5 or 10 games and then a lot of up and down in between.

 

[C_note]

The problem is he's a role player and a pure jump shooter. No penetration ability at all. How many players in the past have succeeded greatly with this type of game? I can't really think of any, it's definitely a power-law distribution. The ones that do become all-stars.

 

[SpanishFly]

While many were hoping that Webs would finally enjoy that breakout season that has eluded him for the first 3 years of his career (not counting the missed season) it's just not happening this year. With no other available small forwards on this team, there's nobody breathing down his neck to take his position or minutes, it's basically right there for him to seize, but so far through a quarter of a season he's not just looking like old Martell, he's looking almost like rookie Martell.

Personally, I think Martell suffers mostly from confidence issues and has always struggled with the yips (when his shot stops falling for a couple of quarters or games, he starts thinking too much and presses, which leads to more misses). Secondly, no matter how many jumpers he shot while sitting on a stool during his rehab, that missed year is really showing, his timing and focus seem to fluctuate wildly at both ends of the court vacillating between floating for long stretches on both ends punctuated with moments of frenetic weakside shot blocking and attempts to dribble into traffic with mixed results ... although the focus issue seemed to be a problem in his other 3 years on the court, so maybe it's not just the missed year.

So what now? What do people see his future with the team being? Why is he performing so poorly? Is this between the ears, is he still rusty, is he just not very good? Is he even tradeable? And why has his poor play seemingly been off people's radar?

I'm not going to try to guess what the problem is whether it's mental or just talent. Bottom line is that this season IMO was his do or die chance to prove to me, the fans, and the Blazers he could get it done. He's clearly failing, he probably gets until Jan/Fen when Batum gets back but frankly it does not look good for him at this time.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I am happy to say I was not one of the many who thought Martell was any good

 

[Luther]

His offensive game has definitely been inconsistent. It seems like his confidence just isn't there (it never was) so I just hope that we hit a winning streak and he starts knocking down shots...Like some of you have said, I will give it the whole year to determine whether or not he is worth keeping around for the long term. His defense has been solid this year (12.2 opponent PER @ SF and 6 @ SG). He isn't hurting the team by taking dumb shots and his guy isn't blowing past him so I can't really sit here and say he is detrimental to our success...It's just clear that if there is a move to upgrade at SF it would be worth doing.

 

[hasoos]

I have given up on him. I don't think he should be in the NBA at this point.

 

[Luther]

I have given up on him. I don't think he should be in the NBA at this point.

To say he hasn't been very productive for this team thus far wouldn't be outrageous, saying he shouldn't be in the NBA is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[hasoos]

To say he hasn't been very productive for this team thus far wouldn't be outrageous, saying he shouldn't be in the NBA is absolutely ridiculous.

Just because we disagree doesn't make it ridiculous. You have your view. I have mine.

 

[C_note]

Just because we disagree doesn't make it ridiculous. You have your view. I have mine.

No, it doesn't. But THAT doesn't mean your view isn't ridiculous. Which it definitely is...

 

[yakbladder]

Martell is a disappointment so far..again. I hold out some hope that he can recover and be consistent. I don't think it's confidence at all. I think it's that he doesn't get enough touches to get into a rhythm and he doesn't know how to maintain it otherwise. He'll never get that on this team and probably not any other team either. Maybe they just need to run the first ten plays through him to jump start him and see how he does...

 

[blue32]

Why does our offense suck so bad that people cant get touches; case in point, see Boston......

 

[hasoos]

No, it doesn't. But THAT doesn't mean your view isn't ridiculous. Which it definitely is...

Oh ok you are the master of claiming what is ridiculous. You win.

 

[roydezlaw]

It's funny that when you watch Martell play, his value drops. Last year his value kept rising off of his preseason performance. By the end of last season, I thought from reading this forum that Martell was going to be another Ray Allen. Oh well, back to reality.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Martell is a disappointment so far..again. I hold out some hope that he can recover and be consistent. I don't think it's confidence at all. I think it's that he doesn't get enough touches to get into a rhythm and he doesn't know how to maintain it otherwise. He'll never get that on this team and probably not any other team either. Maybe they just need to run the first ten plays through him to jump start him and see how he does...

The trouble is role-players never, ever, ever get 10 plays run for them, and I don't think he's ever shown himself to be capable of being a featured scorer (minus a few hot streaks here and there). He has one option and one option only and that is to starting hitting shots when guys kick it out to him and nobody is within five feet, if he can't do that it would be awfully hard to justify expanding his role.

Furthermore, do you really want LMA and Brandon idling for the first 6 or 7 minutes of a game in an effort to try and get Martell going?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Oh ok you are the master of claiming what is ridiculous. You win.

He may not be the master, but he is right, that claim was pretty ridiculous. Martell has NBA-level talent, just not starter-level consistency. He'd probably do well on a team that runs, since he can run and dunk well. Re-defining his game as a (heh) scrappy athletic wing instead of Instant Glen Rice could also be a good thing. In Nate's system, he can't do that. Also, he might not want to do that. Regardless, he has the tools to be decent. Not great, but decent.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Furthermore, do you really want LMA and Brandon idling for the first 6 or 7 minutes of a game in an effort to try and get Martell going?

Exactly. Unless Martell can lay claim to "Mr 3rd Quarter", he's not going to get touches in the offense.

BTW, maybe the reason Oden, Roy, and LMA haven't meshed is because Oden hasn't claimed a quarter. Maybe we could make him Mr 2nd Quarter next season, since LMA is Mr 1st Quarter, and Roy is Mr 4th Quarter.

 

[C_note]

Oh ok you are the master of claiming what is ridiculous. You win.

Hey, just 'cause my view (and probably most others) is that your view is ridiculous doesn't mean you gotta get snippy!

Let's use some hard facts then...

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusm...omb=1&season=22009&split=9&team=Trail Blazers

Martell is an overall +47 on the season. Not exactly a detriment to the team, like another poster already said in this thread. His defense is good enough to warrant playing him; at least he can hold down the position.

Now, based on this list, if Martell doesn't belong in the NBA, Rudy, Bayless, and Outlaw don't belong either. They have worse point differentials overall than Marty does. And isn't that what it's all about? Having more points than the other team?

Now I win.

 

[hasoos]

Hey, just 'cause my view (and probably most others) is that your view is ridiculous doesn't mean you gotta get snippy!

Let's use some hard facts then...

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusm...omb=1&season=22009&split=9&team=Trail Blazers

Martell is an overall +47 on the season. Not exactly a detriment to the team, like another poster already said in this thread. His defense is good enough to warrant playing him; at least he can hold down the position.

Now, based on this list, if Martell doesn't belong in the NBA, Rudy, Bayless, and Outlaw don't belong either. They have worse point differentials overall than Marty does. And isn't that what it's all about? Having more points than the other team?

Now I win.

You are aware that most players that play on winning teams are going to have a + in the +/- column. So thanks for your useless stat of the day.

 

[Luther]

Plus minus is a somewhat flawed gauge of production but I can't sit here and say that I would rather have the three guard lineup in opposed to having Martell at the 3 for the majority of the game.

 

[Kaydow]

He looked so good in the opener. I don't know what happened after that.

Yes he did. Remember the dunk on Chuck Hayes? Martell's problem has always been that he thinks to much. There are nights when he tries to be aggressive offensively early, which is good. But he'll take some wild shots. It's like he decides beforehand he's going to shoot instead of letting the game come to him. Other nights when his confidence is low, he can go a whole quarter without shooting or making an attempt to go to the basket. There has to be a happy medium, but I swear he can't find it.

This does feel like Martell's make or break season. He's got a couple of months now to just go out and play. He's not going to get yanked if he makes a couple of mistakes - we don't have anybody else, and he's one of only 3 healthy guys we have that can shoot the 3 (Blake, Web, Roy - that's it) He's never had this kind of opportunity. Perhaps the proverbial light will go off and he'll put it all together. If it doesn't, he's either traded or stuck on the end of the bench next season. I know he's young, but at some point you have to admit that if this isn't the finished product - it's pretty close.

 

[C_note]

You are aware that most players that play on winning teams are going to have a + in the +/- column. So thanks for your useless stat of the day.

No shit...I was using it as a comparison to other guys on the team. It's worthless on a per game basis, and a decent stat overall for the season.

Forget that it's a positive number...why are those four guys lower than Marty on the list?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

No shit...I was using it as a comparison to other guys on the team. It's worthless on a per game basis, and a decent stat overall for the season.

Forget that it's a positive number...why are those four guys lower than Marty on the list?

I was going to refute you with +/- per minute, which is imho a better judge of production, but even then Marty's only behind Outlaw and Cunningham (0.168 for Outlaw, 0.094 for Dante, vs 0.090 for Martell). He's well ahead of Bayless and Rudy.

With Marty being so abyssmal as a reserve, and Dante not light-years better, Marty starting is fine with me. For now.