Who Are The "Rich", and How Much Taxation Is "Fair"?

[EL PRESIDENTE]

jesus, everyone on facebook is posting this article? was it on the daily show?

 

[blazerboy30]

It is irresponsible and dishonest of Buffett to write this. It is very irresponsible to shift the focus to revenue generation instead of spending cuts, and again focus on class warfare. He should know that, he's a smart guy.

Great Warren. Let's implement your proposal. Maybe you can squeeze out another $50 billion in revenue. That is chump change compared to the $1.6 Trillion deficit. But by all means, let's write an irresponsible and dishonest article to get more attention for yourself.

Not that he cares, but he lost some credibility from me.

 

[maxiep]

xericx, you're right. I just checked FB and it's been posted by multiple friends of mine.

 

[ABM]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIcqb9hHQ3E&feature=share

Holla

 

[PapaG]

xericx, you're right. I just checked FB and it's been posted by multiple friends of mine.

Heh. Just checked FB, and the article is posted 3x on my landing page. What's the common website that asked people to post the article? Is it DemocraticUnderground? DailyKos? MSNBC.com?

 

[Denny Crane]

I'll ask an obvious question. If the tax rate were 100% for over $1M, what do you think those earners would do?

I wouldn't lift a finger to do work once I hit the 100% mark. If 100% of my work would stop at $1M income, 90% would stop if the tax were 90%.

I don't want to be 100% a slave to govt., nor a 90% slave, nor a 40% slave.

No, I don't make $1M or close to it, but I am quite sure most people would do likewise and feel likewise in those circumstances.

 

[PapaG]

I'll ask an obvious question. If the tax rate were 100% for over $1M, what do you think those earners would do?

I wouldn't lift a finger to do work once I hit the 100% mark. If 100% of my work would stop at $1M income, 90% would stop if the tax were 90%.

I don't want to be 100% a slave to govt., nor a 90% slave, nor a 40% slave.

No, I don't make $1M or close to it, but I am quite sure most people would do likewise and feel likewise in those circumstances.

Obama's class warfare shtick plays to the lowest common denominator. Having Warren Buffet, the 2nd-richest man in the US, be his "face" for the "rich" is laughable. I haven't seen anybody in this thread note that many of the "rich" making >$250k are small business owners who have to claim that income. It's not like everybody who makes >$250k is working for a larger corporation.

 

[barfo]

I'll ask an obvious question. If the tax rate were 100% for over $1M, what do you think those earners would do?

What if we put to death anyone who asks silly hypotheticals about 100% tax rates? Wouldn't that reduce the number of silly questions?

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

In relation to the average American, if you can afford to feed your family, pay the mortgage and taxes and utilities, afford decent healthcare and dental care, send your kids to school...you are rich.

Back in the sixties that was the norm, on one salary per family.

 

[tlongII]

The rich should pay more taxes. They should pay at least as much of a percentage of their taxable income as everyone else. That is obvious to me. This would not solve the budget deficit issue, but it still should happen.

 

[huevonkiller]

Obama's class warfare shtick plays to the lowest common denominator. Having Warren Buffet, the 2nd-richest man in the US, be his "face" for the "rich" is laughable. I haven't seen anybody in this thread note that many of the "rich" making >$250k are small business owners who have to claim that income. It's not like everybody who makes >$250k is working for a larger corporation.

Buffet just doesn't want to man up and apologize for supporting The Novice In Office. Every one of his predictions have bombed, and it only takes simple math to show he's a brute in this matter.

 

[maxiep]

The rich should pay more taxes. They should pay at least as much of a percentage of their taxable income as everyone else. That is obvious to me. This would not solve the budget deficit issue, but it still should happen.

In 2008, the top 25% paid over 86% of Federal taxes. From what I understand, the top 25% pay a greater percentage of that now.

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

 

[BrianFromWA]

President Barack Obama says he wants to make sure millionaires are taxed at higher rates than their secretaries. The data say they already are.

In his White House address on Monday, Obama called on Congress to increase taxes by $1.5 trillion as part of a 10-year deficit reduction package totaling more than $3 trillion. He proposed that Congress overhaul the tax code and impose what he called the "Buffett rule," named for the billionaire investor.

The rule says, "People making more than $1 million a year should not pay a smaller share of their income in taxes than middle-class families pay." Buffett wrote in a recent piece for The New York Times that the tax rate he paid last year was lower than that paid by any of the other 20 people in his office.

"Middle-class families shouldn't pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires," Obama said. "That's pretty straightforward. It's hard to argue against that."

There may be individual millionaires who pay taxes at rates lower than middle-income workers. In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service. But that's less than 1 percent of the nearly 237,000 returns with incomes above $1 million.

This year, households making more than $1 million will pay an average of 29.1 percent of their income in federal taxes, including income taxes, payroll taxes and other taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.

Households making between $50,000 and $75,000 will pay an average of 15 percent of their income in federal taxes.

Lower-income households will pay less. For example, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 will pay an average of 12.5 percent of their income in federal taxes. Households making between $20,000 and $30,000 will pay 5.7 percent.

1,470 out of 127,000,000 (or one one-thousandth of one percent) are millionaires who don't pay tax. But the other 237,000 millionaires (one-fifth of one percent of returns) pay an averages of 29.1% including payroll taxes (or 22.75% without payroll taxes).
Those making 20-30k pay 5.7%. But when you factor that SS/M/M payroll taxes are 6.35%, then they're getting .65% subsidized back from their federal income tax (on average). Those making 50k are paying ~6.1% in income taxes.

To put this in perspective, if you taxed the 1470 non-paying millionaires the same 22.75% of a million-dollar income, the government would gain $334M. The same as taxing everyone who doesn't pay income tax (49M returns) $6.83 each. And if you did BOTH, the deficit would go from $1.7T to $1.6993T.

 

[Denny Crane]

If those 1400 guys have incomes of $100M, each, then what?

 

[BrianFromWA]

then it goes up by a factor of 100. I just used $1M as a point.

What's your guess as to the income spread of those 1470? Skewed low? Billionaire ballas?

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't know the distribution. But it matters ;-)

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

The rich should pay more taxes. They should pay at least as much of a percentage of their taxable income as everyone else. That is obvious to me. This would not solve the budget deficit issue, but it still should happen.

And I agree. Everyone should pay the same percentage amount. The you make, the more you pay, yet you're paying no more percentage wise.. That's fair.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

it's not me you have to worry about in the "pay more in a flat tax" scenario. It's those who don't pay a dime all of a sudden losing 15% (or whatever) of their income. To go from 10 or 13 to 15 isn't a huge stretch.

Great point.

Flat tax will only further separate the wealthy from poverty and continue the decrease of teh middle class.

Flat tax sounds nice and easy, but it is not humane, IMO. Some people need tax deductions. If you could just see what theya re going through and the odds they are facing, you too would feel compelled to give them a tax break . . .force them to either pay taxes or become homeless?

The day we stop looking at people as people, and stop considering their situation and just apply a hard and fast rule to everybody, regardles of who they are or what they are going through, is the day this society takes a step backwards.

 

[huevonkiller]

Great point.

Flat tax will only further separate the wealthy from poverty and continue the decrease of teh middle class.

Flat tax sounds nice and easy, but it is not humane, IMO. Some people need tax deductions. If you could just see what theya re going through and the odds they are facing, you too would feel compelled to give them a tax break . . .force them to either pay taxes or become homeless?

The day we stop looking at people as people, and stop considering their situation and just apply a hard and fast rule to everybody, regardles of who they are or what they are going through, is the day this society takes a step backwards.

Nah I don't think so, I know plenty of poor people that manage their money poorly. In fact poor people manage their money poorly at a greater rate probably.

A consumption tax is the fairest thing I've heard of. Not all Rich or poor people are equal.