Who are you going to root for?

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BlazerCaravan said:
In 1989-90, the NBA averaged 10 more points per game than it does now. It all kind of evens out. You gotta look at normalized stats like PER or TS% to figure out how a Malone would perform in today's NBA (hint: he'd lead the NBA in Flagrant 2's)
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The NBA averaged more points because David Stern hadn't turned the league into a joke yet. You can't even touch guys like Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant, or Dirk Nowitzki today. Preferential treatment for superstars is off the charts. The league 1989 was back in the Bad Boy days, when players like Michael Jordan were getting hammered by the Pistons and the Knicks. I am not a fan of Karl Malone. I hated the guy, but he was an amazing power forward. He was 6'9. Tim Duncan is a center masquerading as a power forward.

The question isn't how Karl Malone would do today, but more importantly how Tim Duncan would have done in 1989?
 
JFizzleRaider said:
I can play that game too.

Malone averaged 0.8 blocks per game for his career. He only averaged 1.5 per game one year, all other years were 1.0 per game or lower.

Duncan averaged 2.2 blocks per game for his career. He has never averaged less than 1.5 per game for a year, and has averaged 2.9 per game for a year.
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6'9 vs 6'11

Who should be averaging more blocks?
 
MickZagger said:
Duncan was no slouch on offense. Duncan was good/great at offense and maybe the best post defender in modern NBA history.
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I didn't say he was a slouch on offense. I said Malone was the superior offensive player, and he was.
 
Natebishop3 said:
6'9 vs 6'11

Who should be averaging more blocks?
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So what. We are talking about who is the best PF of all time, I'd like my PF to get another block per game than another assist per game.

And besides, Ben Wallace was 6'9 and he seemed to get blocks just fine :dunno:
 
Natebishop3 said:
I didn't say he was a slouch on offense. I said Malone was the superior offensive player, and he was.
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But, you said Malone was the better overall player because he was better on offense. Duncan was slightly behind Malone on offense, but lightyears better defensively.

I'm sure Duncan could have sacrificed a championship or two for 5 more ppg. But, he never had to score more to win.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
I can play that game too.

Malone averaged 0.8 blocks per game for his career. He only averaged 1.5 per game one year, all other years were 1.0 per game or lower.

Duncan averaged 2.2 blocks per game for his career. He has never averaged less than 1.5 per game for a year, and has averaged 2.9 per game for a year.
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You're not even playing in the same game. Did you see what he was responding to? I said that Malone was the superior offensive player and then Rhal said that Duncan "dishes out way more assists". How does your stats about blocks prove me wrong about Malone being the superior offensive player?
 
MickZagger said:
But, you said Malone was the better overall player because he was better on offense. Duncan was slightly behind Malone on offense, but lightyears better defensively.

I'm sure Duncan could have sacrificed a championship or two for 5 more ppg. But, he never had to score more to win.
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I never said he was the better overall player AND I never said Malone was the best PF of all time. It's amazing how people just make shit up in an argument. I said Malone was the superior offensive player and I said I would rather have Malone. I have given stats to prove my claim that he was the better offensive player and the other was just a personal preference. You can't argue a personal preference because it's personal.

Kind of funny though how you guys are using defensive stats and PER to argue with my claim that he was the better offensive player ;)
 
Natebishop3 said:
I never said he was the better overall player AND I never said Malone was the best PF of all time. It's amazing how people just make shit up in an argument. I said Malone was the superior offensive player and I said I would rather have Malone. I have given stats to prove my claim that he was the better offensive player and the other was just a personal preference. You can't argue a personal preference because it's personal.

Kind of funny though how you guys are using defensive stats and PER to argue with my claim that he was the better offensive player ;)
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lol, now were playing the semantics game. In my mind, and I'm pretty sure most people's minds if you say you'd rather have a player that plays the same position in essentially the same era, over the other player that means you think that player is better.... Call me crazy I know.

As for the advanced statistics aspect, I haven't even looked them up. I just know that Duncan's are better than Malone's. He was more a more efficient player that didn't need a high volume of shots to lead his team to the ultimate goal.

On personal preference, sure you can have that personal preference, but you're posting that personal preference in a medium that debates sports. People are going to tell you that personal preference is absurd if it is.
 
MickZagger said:
lol, now were playing the semantics game. In my mind, and I'm pretty sure most people's minds if you say you'd rather have a player that plays the same position in essentially the same era, over the other player that means you think that player is better.... Call me crazy I know.

As for the advanced statistics aspect, I haven't even looked them up. I just know that Duncan's are better than Malone's. He was more a more efficient player that didn't need a high volume of shots to lead his team to the ultimate goal.

On personal preference, sure you can have that personal preference, but you're posting that personal preference in a medium that debates sports. People are going to tell you that personal preference is absurd if it is.
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The semantics game? You were putting words in my mouth. I said I would rather have Malone because he was the superior offensive player. Who wins in the NBA today? Is Dirk an amazing defender? How about Durant? Zach Randolph? Blake Griffin? The NBA favors offensive talent. They coddle scorers. Tim Duncan was never flashy. Ever. To say that Tim Duncan and Karl Malone played in the same era is a little off base as well. Malone's rookie season was in 85-86, whereas Tim Duncan played as a rookie in 97-98. He never had to beat the Jordan Bulls. His toughest competition was the Lakers. The East wasn't a complete joke in the 80s or early 90s. How would you characterize the Eastern conference during Duncan's heyday?

Tim Duncan played in a neutered version of the league and I dare you to prove otherwise. The NBA today is a fucking joke compared to the NBA of the 80s and 90s.
 
Natebishop3 said:
More assists eh?

Duncan 3.1 career apg

Malone 3.6 career apg

Also, Malone averaged better than 4 assists per game seven times in his career, with one season at 4.7 apg. For a power forward that's insane. Duncan has never averaged more than 3.9 assists per game. Malone did it seven times, Duncan has never done it in 14 years in the league.
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Yep I looked at the wrong stats when I said that. Completely wrong on the assist one.
Malone avg 3.6 asist for his career
Duncan is 3.1
In the playoffs Duncan avgs more assists/rebounds/blocks/FG%. Two of the greatest all time players around but i'd go with the more efficient better defender who ups there stats in the playoffs while Malone's stats dip across the board.
Duncan regular Career 1109 35.4 .507 .177 .688 11.3 3.1 .7 2.2 20.3
Duncan playoff Career 179 179 39.3 .502 .161 .679 12.3 3.4 .7 2.6 22.5

Malone regular Career 1471 37.2 .516 .274 .742 10.1 3.6 1.4 .8 25.0
Malone playoff Career 193 – 41.0 .463 .162 .736 10.7 3.2 1.3 .7 24.7
 
The thing is, I look at Duncan as a center. He doesn't want to be called a center, but he's a center. The guy hasn't been a power forward, imo, since Robinson retired.
 
Natebishop3 said:
The semantics game? You were putting words in my mouth. I said I would rather have Malone because he was the superior offensive player. Who wins in the NBA today? Is Dirk an amazing defender? How about Durant? Zach Randolph? Blake Griffin? The NBA favors offensive talent. They coddle scorers. Tim Duncan was never flashy. Ever. To say that Tim Duncan and Karl Malone played in the same era is a little off base as well. Malone's rookie season was in 85-86, whereas Tim Duncan played as a rookie in 97-98. He never had to beat the Jordan Bulls. His toughest competition was the Lakers. The East wasn't a complete joke in the 80s or early 90s. How would you characterize the Eastern conference during Duncan's heyday?

Tim Duncan played in a neutered version of the league and I dare you to prove otherwise. The NBA today is a fucking joke compared to the NBA of the 80s and 90s.
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Saying you'd rather have him isn't the same as saying he's the better player? Okay...Don't you want the better player on your team? As I said, Duncan could have sacrificed championships if he was seeking scoring crowns, but he didn't need to.

Duncan won his first title before Dirk, Durant, Z-Bo or Griffin were even in the league. Aside from Dirk, none of those other players have won championships.

Duncan never had to go through the Bulls, but he had to go through the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe. Not an easy task at all. You're right the East always has been weak when he's got his rings. But, thats a completely different argument. I'm saying I'd rather have Duncan over Malone because Duncan was just a notch below Malone offensively, but a much, much better defender. Defense win championships.
 
Why don't you guys switch up? Give Stockton to Duncan. Give Ginobili and Parker to Malone. Okay, resume argument. Ain't I the little stinker.
 
Natebishop3 said:
The thing is, I look at Duncan as a center. He doesn't want to be called a center, but he's a center. The guy hasn't been a power forward, imo, since Robinson retired.
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Rasho Nesterovic, Fabricio Oberto and Tiago Splitter politely disagree.
 
HCP said:
Fuck OKC and Durant! Go Lakers!
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Never thought I'd say this, but I agree. This reminds me of the only time I ever rooted for Jordan's Bulls: against the Shaq-Penny Magic in 1995. Of course, we know how that turned out. I fully expect the analogous result this time (especially after that game 1 massacre).

(However, that 1995 result had an upside: watching Clyde and the Dream totally wax the Magic in the finals.)
 
East is easy. Pacers and 76ers. Don't think they'll win. An ECF matchup between loathesome Celtics and entitled Heat will be a hard choice.

West, I want the Lakers to lose. Badly. Humiliated. Swept. By 20+ ppg. While it's hard to root for anything LA, I think it'd be funny to see the Clippers advance while the Lakers don't. But I'm OK with the Spurs. They never irritated me the way some other teams do. If it's SA/OKC I'll go with SA. At least I'll have someone to root for in WCF.

But to be honest, I'm only watching sporadically, more focused on the A's and nonsports nonTV stuff (Pride Parade, need to create cake for 80 for niece's Bat Mitzvah, getting garden finalized, etc.)
 
Pacers and Spurs.

Since you asked.

The rest give me a rash.
 
Under no curcumstance can a Trail Blazer fan root for the Lakers.
Durant seems like a really good guy. It's not his fault we took Oden over him. I'm rooting for OKC to win it all. Harden is a stud too. I prefer to see the smaller market teams win.
 
I should love the Pacers more, but they're just so blah. Everything about them. I'm okay with the Heat winning it all, especially if they beat OKC to do it.

I'll probably root for Boston most in the East, though, because I love Rondo. And I know everyone hates KG but I just don't. He's a 'Sheed type. It's all on the court. Name me one asshole thing he's ever done off the court?
 
I can't root for OKC until Clay Bennett sells them.

I'm rooting for the Spurs and Celtics.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
I fucking hate Kobe and the Lakers, but I watched Sonicsgate and never want Clay Bennett to win an NBA championship. Fuck that guy, fuck that franchise. I'm not cheering for the Lakers to win, but for OKC to lose.
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Totally agree FAMS!
 
BoBoBREWSKI said:
Under no curcumstance can a Trail Blazer fan root for the Lakers.
Durant seems like a really good guy. It's not his fault we took Oden over him. I'm rooting for OKC to win it all. Harden is a stud too. I prefer to see the smaller market teams win.
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Bullshit! They stole that team from Seattle!
 
I'm rooting for whomever has the best chance of beating Miami. That leaves OKC and LAL for me. If LAC face Miami I will not watch a single second... f both of those teams
 
i know it's not popular opinion across the country but i'd rather see miami win it all than any of the western conference teams.

okc- can't root for that ownership group after the sonics fiasco and watching durant win anything kills me still
lal- no explanation needed for my dislike of them
lac- bunch of floppers and cry babies.
sas- still have bad memories of playoff tilts with them and living in south texas there are too many insufferable spurs fans.

mia- i don't really like them but find myself rooting for them because everyone else wants them to fail. would love it if they won it all without bosh, because it's always been the big 2 1/2
indy- just a blah team, nothing to get excited about
bos- i really don't mind them at all and wouldn't mind seeing them make another run but they play a boring brand of basketball
phi- they really have no hope of defeating miami if they beat boston, so no real need to bother.
 
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