[quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='63440' date='Aug 10 2006, 12:49 AM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='63432' date='Aug 9 2006, 09:54 PM']Count the Win Shares.Count the clutch play in the field and at the plate.Jeter is the true winner. For you to pick Ortiz because he has gaudy HR totals is asnine. It's being a casual fan, and not an educated one. Jeter wins more games than Ortiz does, pure and simple.[/quote]1) Did you completely ignore what I just said?Im not picking because of 'gaudy HR totals'.More like because...- Ortiz has 63 Extra Base Hits, Jeter has 38- Ortiz has 75 Walks, Jeter has 50- Ortiz has 110 RBI's, Jeter has 68- Ortiz has 7 More Runs Scored then Jeter, despite the fact that Jeter has the obvious advantage of being a #2 hitter.- Ortiz has a .630 Slugging Percentage, Jeter has .486- Ortiz has a 1.026 On Base Plus Slugging Percentage, Jeter has .918- Oh yeah, and the fact that he has hit
32 more Home Runs then Jeter doesnt hurt either.- And on top of all of that, he is hitting .288 which is great for a slugger of his caliber. You can choose to so ignorantly ignore power numbers since they dont fit your arguement, but they do exist.[/quote]Power numbers are only a fraction of the game. Ortiz is the best, this year, in the power numbers. The flashy home runs. But there is more than one way to win a game, and listing all the power numbers in no way makes your argument stronger.
2) Defense? By almost any measure, Derek Jeter is a below average defensive shortstop.
Sorry, just have to interject at your stupidity here, he's the 3rd best defensive SS in the American league this year. So only 2 SS's are average-to-above average in the AL? Lol.
He consistently ranks near the bottom of the league in most defensive categories.
Again, your ignorance in this area. Jeter was 2nd last year, 4th in 2004,
Over the past 3 years, NO SS in the AL has been a better fielder than Jeter. You are doing nothing but talking out of your ass here. Jeter is a great fielder
The debate about Jeter's defense shouldn't be about good or bad, instead whether he's merely below average or the worst in the league.
Out of your ass, talking you are. You are so ignorant on this subject, it's insane. I'm not even sure you are serious and not joking anymore.First of all, he has very poor range. Ground Balls constantly get by Derek Jeter on a rather consistant basis that most other Shortstops in the league would have turned an out on.Second of all, he tends to over-dramatize almost every single play that he does get to. I think most people can agree that Jeter is known for about 3 plays defensively A) The Jump-Throw to first base that he does almost 3 times a week now
"The Flip" (Game 3, 2001 ALDS) and C) The Diving into Stands play against Boston.A) On this play he moves to the right, barehanding a baseball that any other shortstop in the league would have grabbed easily, then leaps into mid air while firing the ball to first base, all while not realizeing that if he just stopped and planted his feet, that he would have still nailed the runner by about 15 feet 90% of the time.
'The Flip', quite possibly the most overrated play in Baseball History because the throw was close enough to the catcher that im not sure that Jeter needed to actually flip the ball to the catcher in the first place, but thats not even important because this all becomes a moot point if Jeremy Giambi had enough brains to SLIDE into Home Plate. What it was was a terrible baserunning play by Giambi, a great tag by Posada and what very well might have been an unnecessary flip by Derek Jeter.C) On this play Jeter ran right, caught the baseball on what would have been a good play defensively, until then he ran about 3 full steps before unneccessairily doing a face-plant into the stands. In those three steps he had enough time to slow down enough to at least be stopped by the Wall instead of needing to do a faceplant against the fans sitting in the front row. But I guess Jeter should thank those 3 plays for committing what should be a crime in giving him a Gold Glove (Which by the way only took A-Rod switching positions and Nomar moving to the NL for it to happen, not to mention robbing a much more deserving Omar Vizquel).
Seriously, look at his defensive stats...try to find one there that suggests that Jeter is even AVERAGE defensively.http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stat...ontext=fielding[/quote]Read above. He has the highest average fielding % over the past 3 season for any SS in the AL.
At least David Ortiz is smart enough to realize he cant play Defense and just doesnt try.....3) Im not even going to get into Win Shares and the credibility (or lack there of) of the stat....
Because you can't argue with the truth.
I'll just leave you with a question...If Win Shares was a 'credible stat', why doesnt the mainstream media use it?
They do. Watch Baseball tonight.
