Who Gets Ramon Sessions?

[B-Roy]

If KP "believes" in his guys like Sergio, Batum and Bayless (the 2nd two playing with under a year of experience) to perform this season, why wouldn't KP "believe" in another one of his "guys" he had eyed at the draft a few years ago?

Because it's easier to believe when that player is only owed ~2 million. If a guy is being owned 5x that amount, you better be damn sure you know what you're doing.

A lot of players end up getting great contracts after having a great season, but then they end up failing to live up to the hype and become Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph, Bobby Simmons etc. You can't just throw money at fairly unproven FAs and hope it works out for the best.

I've followed Sessions since last year, but I wouldn't offer him more than the MLE at this point.

 

[Jayps15]

After seeing Sessions go off a few weeks ago I too put him on top of my list of guys I would love to see in a Blazer uniform. Because he's only had 2 years of NBA experience he's an Early Bird Free Agent, and we're restricted in the contract we're allowed to off him. Because of that he can't be given an offer sheet with a starting salary over the league average, but the contract can be structured in a way as to average far more than the MLE. Larry Coon does a good job of explaining it here:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q37

Basically Milwaukee can match any offer for Sessions by just using their MLE, and they also have the Bird Rights to Villanueva, so they can match any offer to both guys. Basically we have to hope that they just can't financially sustain a payroll that big, and that no one offers them any big cap relief. Then hope that they make resigning Villanueva a bigger priority than resigning Sessions. It's definitely plausible and it would be my dream scenario of how to use our cap room this offseason, hell Skiles played Ridinour instead of Sessions all year so they may not really think he's all that.

 

[Nikolokolus]

KP already passed on Sessions once - in the 2007 draft when he took Kopo over him with the #30 pick.

Time will tell if he still thinks this was the right move or if he tries to get him come this summer.

Passing on somebody in the draft is a little bit different than passing on somebody who has already shown a little something in the league ... I'm not saying KP is perfect, but this is kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[B-Roy]

After seeing Sessions go off a few weeks ago I too put him on top of my list of guys I would love to see in a Blazer uniform. Because he's only had 2 years of NBA experience he's an Early Bird Free Agent, and we're restricted in the contract we're allowed to off him. Because of that he can't be given an offer sheet with a starting salary over the league average, but the contract can be structured in a way as to average far more than the MLE. Larry Coon does a good job of explaining it here:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q37

Basically Milwaukee can match any offer for Sessions by just using their MLE, and they also have the Bird Rights to Villanueva, so they can match any offer to both guys. Basically we have to hope that they just can't financially sustain a payroll that big, and that no one offers them any big cap relief. Then hope that they make resigning Villanueva a bigger priority than resigning Sessions. It's definitely plausible and it would be my dream scenario of how to use our cap room this offseason, hell Skiles played Ridinour instead of Sessions all year so they may not really think he's all that.

Ah.....

That explains a lot.

 

[Minstrel]

After seeing Sessions go off a few weeks ago I too put him on top of my list of guys I would love to see in a Blazer uniform. Because he's only had 2 years of NBA experience he's an Early Bird Free Agent, and we're restricted in the contract we're allowed to off him. Because of that he can't be given an offer sheet with a starting salary over the league average, but the contract can be structured in a way as to average far more than the MLE. Larry Coon does a good job of explaining it here:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q37

Basically Milwaukee can match any offer for Sessions by just using their MLE, and they also have the Bird Rights to Villanueva, so they can match any offer to both guys. Basically we have to hope that they just can't financially sustain a payroll that big, and that no one offers them any big cap relief. Then hope that they make resigning Villanueva a bigger priority than resigning Sessions. It's definitely plausible and it would be my dream scenario of how to use our cap room this offseason, hell Skiles played Ridinour instead of Sessions all year so they may not really think he's all that.

Ouch. Bad news. Thanks for the info, though.

 

[Nikolokolus]

After seeing Sessions go off a few weeks ago I too put him on top of my list of guys I would love to see in a Blazer uniform. Because he's only had 2 years of NBA experience he's an Early Bird Free Agent, and we're restricted in the contract we're allowed to off him. Because of that he can't be given an offer sheet with a starting salary over the league average, but the contract can be structured in a way as to average far more than the MLE. Larry Coon does a good job of explaining it here:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q37

Basically Milwaukee can match any offer for Sessions by just using their MLE, and they also have the Bird Rights to Villanueva, so they can match any offer to both guys. Basically we have to hope that they just can't financially sustain a payroll that big, and that no one offers them any big cap relief. Then hope that they make resigning Villanueva a bigger priority than resigning Sessions. It's definitely plausible and it would be my dream scenario of how to use our cap room this offseason, hell Skiles played Ridinour instead of Sessions all year so they may not really think he's all that.

Hmmm ... that muddies it a bit.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Childress it is!

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I'm not sure of Milwaukie's cap....sorry for not caring enough about the Bucks....But since Sessions is only in his second year, I don't believe Milwaukie can go over the cap to re-sign him, or at least I think there are some sort of limitations.

 

[B-Roy]

I'm not sure of Milwaukie's cap....sorry for not caring enough about the Bucks....But since Sessions is only in his second year, I don't believe Milwaukie can go over the cap to re-sign him, or at least I think there are some sort of limitations.

Bird rights.....

 

[BalancedMan]

Bird rights.....

Early-Bird Rights to be exact.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Bird rights.....

Yup ... But that doesn't completely shut the door on Sessions though, as it stands now the Bucks are already poised to be tax payers and that doesn't even include the salary that is likely to be due a first round pick. They are especially screwed in that they are on the hook for 6.5 million for Ridnour, meaning they are facing the prospect of having to pay about 12 million alone for their point guard spot if they want to keep Ramon, which almost guarantees they have to let Charlie V. walk, which would be a tough call.

The biggest irony of KP not doing the Jefferson trade is that we pretty much just guaranteed they have to make a choice between one or the other now, because there is no way of reducing their cap figure unless they trade players for free to teams already under the cap.

 

[andalusian]

Passing on somebody in the draft is a little bit different than passing on somebody who has already shown a little something in the league ... I'm not saying KP is perfect, but this is kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

What I was trying to convey was that maybe KP did decide to pass on him because he does not think he (Sessions) can not consistently give you this production. History has shown that he was never given the starting job in Milwaukee under 2 different coaches - so maybe this is just a case of an inconsistent guy who can how short spurts of large production but is not really good enough to be a consistent starter.

I sure do not know - I am just wondering if KP passed on him because of something he did not like or because of an oversight.

 

[Nikolokolus]

What I was trying to convey was that maybe KP did decide to pass on him because he does not think he (Sessions) can not consistently give you this production. History has shown that he was never given the starting job in Milwaukee under 2 different coaches - so maybe this is just a case of an inconsistent guy who can how short spurts of large production but is not really good enough to be a consistent starter.

I sure do not know - I am just wondering if KP passed on him because of something he did not like or because of an oversight.

Yeah, sure that's entirely possible. I've watched Sessions maybe 7-8 times this year times on league pass (after he had those ridiculous 20+ assist games last year he kind of caught my eye) and he does have issues on defense and his % from distance is not there at this time, but he's lighting quick, gets into the lane, has a really nice mid-range jumper and his court vision seems really good.

I'm not hell bent on KP getting him, I just think he's got great potential -- I certainly could be wrong.

 

[BalancedMan]

What I was trying to convey was that maybe KP did decide to pass on him because he does not think he (Sessions) can not consistently give you this production. History has shown that he was never given the starting job in Milwaukee under 2 different coaches - so maybe this is just a case of an inconsistent guy who can how short spurts of large production but is not really good enough to be a consistent starter.

I sure do not know - I am just wondering if KP passed on him because of something he did not like or because of an oversight.

His first year he was playing behind Mo Williams, so you can't put that on Sessions as Mo is a pretty decent player. Sessions has great numbers as a starter...seriously take a look. I was surprised that Ridnour started above Sessions, as I figured Ramon was the reason they moved Williams.

 

[Entity]

I would make a poll, but it would probably get merged with this thread. How much would you pay Sessions? Here are some numbers to help:

First and second seasons:

21 years old, 17 games, per 36 = 11.0 pts, 10.2 ast, 4.6 reb, 1.4 stl, .436 fg%, 3-7 from 3

22 years old, 54 games, per 36 = 16.4 pts, 6.7 ast, 4.3 reb, 1.4 stl, .447 fg%, 5-30 from 3

Since starting for the injured Ridnour:

22 years old, 10 games, 38.6 min, 19.5 pts, 7.1 ast, 4.3 reb, 1.6 stl, .473 fg%, 0-2 from 3

The options I would have made would have been $5 million or less, $5 - 7.5 million, $7.5 - 9.9 million, $10 million or more.

 

[Minstrel]

I would make a poll, but it would probably get merged with this thread. How much would you pay Sessions? Here are some numbers to help:

First and second seasons:

21 years old, 17 games, per 36 = 11.0 pts, 10.2 ast, 4.6 reb, 1.4 stl, .436 fg%, 3-7 from 3

22 years old, 54 games, per 36 = 16.4 pts, 6.7 ast, 4.3 reb, 1.4 stl, .447 fg%, 5-30 from 3

Since starting for the injured Ridnour:

22 years old, 10 games, 38.6 min, 19.5 pts, 7.1 ast, 4.3 reb, 1.6 stl, .473 fg%, 0-2 from 3

The options I would have made would have been $5 million or less, $5 - 7.5 million, $7.5 - 9.9 million, $10 million or more.

Apparently, the max starting salary he can be given is MLE.

 

[BalancedMan]

Apparently, the max starting salary he can be given is MLE.

I've read through and it looks like Sessions is a straight up RFA. The only difference is that he can only be offered a contract within a specific range due to him being in the league only two years. He'll sign a contract between 2-5 years in length, with his starting salary being pretty much the MLE.

This is essentially due to a closed loophole known as the Gilbert Arenas provision, where Golden State couldn't match the Wizards offer sheet because they didn't have the cap space. This is no longer feasible due to the salary limitation and allowing the Bucks to resign him with their MLE.

So even if we offer as much as possible, the Bucks will be able to sign him. Unfortunate, but I don't see him getting away from the Bucks unless there's a sign-and-trade that gets done. Really frustrating. I don't know where I want to use the FA money now.

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

sessions doesn't excite me. I think Koponen is a more complete player and has a brighter future.

 

[free_lafrentz]

sessions doesn't excite me. I think Koponen is a more complete player and has a brighter future.

This is such a sad place to be in as an NBA fan. Totally blinded by Blazermania.

The day Koponen puts up numbers like Sessions consistently is the day you can put this quote of mine in your sig.

And you can prove me wrong all you want because I can say with 100% certainty that Kop won't deliver as much as you expect, which by your take is probably alot.

 

[BrianFromWA]

It depends on his analysis of Sessions. I could see it. The average salary now is around $6 million. Committing $4 million above average for a good young point guard with upside seems pretty reasonable. And it may not cost $10 million. Might only cost $8 million, for example.

If Portland can get Sessions, I think KP would definitely renounce Blake.

He has to renounce Blake, then, before he can even talk to Sessions. Blake has to have a decision by June 30. Midnight on the first you can talk to Sessions.

 

[BalancedMan]

He has to renounce Blake, then, before he can even talk to Sessions. Blake has to have a decision by June 30. Midnight on the first you can talk to Sessions.

Well if KP thinks he can get Sessions, then maybe it'll happen. Couldn't he turn down the option on Blake and then resign him? It'd be kind of a dick move, but it's the business and Blake clearly knows this. Just curious.

 

[Minstrel]

Well if KP thinks he can get Sessions, then maybe it'll happen. Couldn't he turn down the option on Blake and then resign him? It'd be kind of a dick move, but it's the business and Blake clearly knows this. Just curious.

Yes, he could, I think. Renouncing just means losing the team option and the Bird rights. But since Portland has cap space, they could use some of it on a new deal for Blake if they fail to sign someone else and Blake doesn't decide to go to another team.

I don't think it's a dick move (team options are there for a reason, just as player options are there for a reason and often used), but it has some risk to it.

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

This is such a sad place to be in as an NBA fan. Totally blinded by Blazermania.

The day Koponen puts up numbers like Sessions consistently is the day you can put this quote of mine in your sig.

And you can prove me wrong all you want because I can say with 100% certainty that Kop won't deliver as much as you expect, which by your take is probably alot.

Stop acting like Sessions is all that. Maybe you should learn the game a little more.

*edited: No personal attacks*

 

[maxiep]

KP already passed on Sessions once - in the 2007 draft when he took Kopo over him with the #30 pick.

Time will tell if he still thinks this was the right move or if he tries to get him come this summer.

He targeted him in the second round. However, Nate wanted Taureen Green and KP gave in.

 

[free_lafrentz]

Stop acting like Sessions is all that. Maybe you should learn the game a little more.

*edited*

I'm sorry. I just don't think Kop can even be put in the same range as Sessions in a conversation because he hasn't played a minute in the NBA.

It's not ignorance, its fact.

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

*edited: No personal attacks*

 

[andalusian]

He targeted him in the second round. However, Nate wanted Taureen Green and KP gave in.

You must have more inside information than me - maybe that's what happened.

What I do remember is that Nate was really complimentary of Sessions after he did a pre-draft workout for Portland before the draft. I never heard him say anything about Green before the draft - only after pre-season camp - so I have a feeling Nate was more pro-Sessions than you expect.

I still find it interesting that they decided to go for Kopo given how high Nate sounded about him after the draft. Maybe they are (or were) really high on Kopo or decided to take a big gamble given that this was a cheap pick at the end of the draft.

 

[Reep]

I'm sorry. I just don't think Kop can even be put in the same range as Sessions in a conversation because he hasn't played a minute in the NBA.

It's not ignorance, its fact.

Yeah, you need to lighten up a bit.

Sessions looks good delivering the ball and playing defense, but his outside shot is not there--much worse than even Sergio. So he is not without his major flaws. Of course this never hurt Andre Miller.

I wouldn't mind seeing Sessions on the team in Sergio's place, but it would be kind of weird paying such a young unproven player bigger bucks than any of you existing point guards. I would still rather see Bayless get a shot at that role.

 

[maxiep]

You must have more inside information than me - maybe that's what happened.

What I do remember is that Nate was really complimentary of Sessions after he did a pre-draft workout for Portland before the draft. I never heard him say anything about Green before the draft - only after pre-season camp - so I have a feeling Nate was more pro-Sessions than you expect.

I still find it interesting that they decided to go for Kopo given how high Nate sounded about him after the draft. Maybe they are (or were) really high on Kopo or decided to take a big gamble given that this was a cheap pick at the end of the draft.

I don't have inside info. I simply recall either hearing it or reading it somewhere. Can anyone else confirm what I thought I heard or read?

 

[free_lafrentz]

*edited*

Wow, no...

Kop could very well surpass anyone that has ever played PG in the NBA; however, my personal stance is that he won't ever be as good as Ramon Sessions is right now. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise at this point because Kop has to step foot on an NBA floor first to prove he is worth anything. Kop didn't perform well enough to make the squad this year during Summer League, too.

This conversation is over. I'm just going to stop because you're putting words in my mouth.

PS - just realized my first take was a little harsh towards you personally. MYy apologies, but my stance is the same.