Who is Neil going to trade for

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Boob-No-More said:
You mean like where the Warriors were in 2013-14? They were a 51-win team that lost in the first round. Their payroll was $68,138,599, the salary cap was $58.7 million and the tax threshold was $71.2 million.

BNM
Click to expand...
You got steve Kerr up your sleeve? How about the best shooter in the world? A dpoy maybe?

All you’re doing is making false equivalencies. You’re better than that.
 
SuperLike.
Wow, this is great. I was going off memory, let's see if I have it now.

Since 1980 (about 39 years),
Top 14 markets: 30 Championships
LeBron + Duncan + NO ONE ELSE: 9 Championships

Congrats, Noobs. If you don't have LeBron or Duncan on your team, you have not (and probably will not) win
a championship.

Boob-No-More said:
According to the Nielsen ratings, these are the 51 largest television markets in the United States with NBA team locations highlighted in red:
  • New York (#1) - 4 finals appearances (Knicks 2, Nets 2) since 1980
  • Los Angeles (#2) - 10 NBA championships (Lakers 10, Clippers 0), 16 finals appearances (Lakers 16, Clippers 0) since 1980
  • Chicago (#3) - 6 NBA championships since 1980, 6 finals appearances since 1980
  • Philadelphia (#4) - 1 NBA championship since 1980, 4 finals appearances since 1980
  • Dallas-Fort Worth (#5) - 1 NBA championship since 1980, 2 finals appearances since 1980
  • San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose (#6) - 3 NBA championships since 1980, 4 finals appearances since 1980
  • Washington, D.C. (Hagerstown) (#7)
  • Houston (#8) - 2 NBA championships since 1980, 4 finals appearances since 1980
  • Boston (Manchester) (#9) - 4 NBA championships since 1980, 7 finals appearances since 1980
  • Atlanta (#10)
Since 1980, the 10 largest television markets have accounted for 27 of 39 NBA Championships and 47 of 78 finals appearances. Here's the breakdown my market size:

Markets 1 - 10: 27 NBA championships since 1980, 47 finals appearances since 1980
Markets 11 - 20: 7 NBA championships since 1980, 19 finals appearances since 1980
Markets 21 - 30: 0 NBA championships since 1980, 3 finals appearances since 1980
Markets 31 - 40: 5 NBA championships since 1980, 8 finals appearances since 1980
Markets 41 - infinity: 0 NBA championships since 1980, 1 finals appearance since 1980

Obviously, the Spurs, with 5 titles and 6 finals appearances skew the 31 - 40 results, but boy, it kind of sucks to be in markets 21 - 30.

It wasn't always this way, the 1970s were a decade of parity with 8 different champions in 10 years, but even then 7 of the 10 champions were from top 10 markets (Knicks twice, Celtics twice, Lakers, Warriors, Bullets) and one from Seattle (currently the 14 largest, market in the US, likely much smaller back in 1979). Portland and Milwaukee were the only small market teams to win an NBA championship during the 70s.

An interesting article from February 26, 1979 issue of Sports Illustrated may have foretold the NBA's coming dominance by big market teams. After seeing smaller market teams have success in recent years, there were concerns about shrinking attendance league wide, but especially in the larger markets:

"However, the most alarming news is that attendance in the big four markets of New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and Philadelphia is down drastically: the Knicks (11%) and Bulls (31%) are once-strong teams that have become woefully weak, but the 76ers (19%) and Lakers (11%) are bona fide championship contenders. "People I talk to around Los Angeles all tell me that there isn't a great deal of interest in either the Lakers or the NBA," says Laker Coach Jerry West.

Likewise, national television ratings are down a whopping 26%. The first four regular-season Sunday CBS telecasts were beaten soundly by everything the other networks threw at them, including Superstars and boxing (ABC), and college basketball (NBC).

Certainly, having weak teams in the major television markets cuts deeply into network ratings, especially when those markets are already saturated with local telecasts, and cable and satellite feeds of pro, college and high school basketball. In Manhattan, for instance, a fan with cable TV can watch as many as 14 games a week with a little dial switching. It stands to reason that Sunday is hardly a special day for the NBA in New York, as long as the Knicks are not a factor."

BNM
Click to expand...
 
chzbrgr said:
You got steve Kerr up your sleeve? How about the best shooter in the world? A dpoy maybe?

All you’re doing is making false equivalencies. You’re better than that.
Click to expand...

Just saying, recent history shows that being a middle of the pack team with a large payroll isn't the WORST place to be.

All it took in GSW was a coaching change to go from 51-wins and a 1st round exit to 67 wins and an NBA title. Kerr basically got WAY more out of virtually the same roster Jackson had the year before. You have to be good before you can become great. If you're alternative is to be VERY bad, be prepared to be VERY bad for a decade, or more, and still probably not win an NBA title.

Unless you draft the next LeBron, he leaves after 7 years, you're very bad again, get THE first pick in the draft 3 times in 4 years, he feels guilty and comes back, and you finally win a championship 13 years later - maybe.

Which sounds more likely? The GSW route of continuing to build on what you have, or blowing it up, tanking, trusting the process and hoping that you get lucky, draft a once per generation player AND he's willing to patiently wait for YEARS while you try to build a team around him?

They are both long shots, but if neither is very likely to win a championship, I'd rather not endure a decade of 20-something win teams that have no chance of even sniffing the playoffs.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Just saying, recent history shows that being a middle of the pack team with a large payroll isn't the WORST place to be.

All it took in GSW was a coaching change to go from 51-wins and a 1st round exit to 67 wins and an NBA title. Kerr basically got WAY more out of virtually the same roster Jackson had the year before. You have to be good before you can become great. If you're alternative is to be VERY bad, be prepared to be VERY bad for a decade, or more, and still probably not win an NBA title.

Unless you draft the next LeBron, he leaves after 7 years, you're very bad again, get THE first pick in the draft 3 times in 4 years, he feels guilty and comes back, and you finally win a championship 13 years later - maybe.

Which sounds more likely? The GSW route of continuing to build on what you have, or blowing it up, tanking, trusting the process and hoping that you get lucky, draft a once per generation player AND he's willing to patiently wait for YEARS while you try to build a team around him?

They are both long shots, but if neither is very likely to win a championship, I'd rather not endure a decade of 20-something win teams that have no chance of even sniffing the playoffs.

BNM
Click to expand...
I raise you Philly. It doesn’t take a decade but it takes about 5 years of trash to get to a team with a championship ceiling. Then 3 years with that group. This group has reached its ceiling unfortunately. We can’t really expect this group as is to complete for anything meaningful. Everyone knows this deep down but only some can admit it.

There is no clear way forward which we agree about but doing the same thing year after year and being promised growth has gotten real old. IMO it comes from a severe lack of self awareness in the front office. We’ve landed in a place where all of our assets mean more to us than they do around the league and we gotta make some tough decisions because of it.

I got nothing to be exited about for next season at this point. It’s going to be the same it’s been the last 3 seasons 43-49 wins and a first round exit. What can we do to raise the ceiling? Are we really satisfied with seasons like the last? Is that all the success we can expect from the blazers? I want to be relevant but I might be alone in that.
 
chzbrgr said:
I raise you Philly. It doesn’t take a decade but it takes about 5 years of trash to get to a team with a championship ceiling. Then 3 years with that group. This group has reached its ceiling unfortunately. We can’t really expect this group as is to complete for anything meaningful. Everyone knows this deep down but only some can admit it.

There is no clear way forward which we agree about but doing the same thing year after year and being promised growth has gotten real old. IMO it comes from a severe lack of self awareness in the front office. We’ve landed in a place where all of our assets mean more to us than they do around the league and we gotta make some tough decisions because of it.

I got nothing to be exited about for next season at this point. It’s going to be the same it’s been the last 3 seasons 43-49 wins and a first round exit. What can we do to raise the ceiling? Are we really satisfied with seasons like the last? Is that all the success we can expect from the blazers? I want to be relevant but I might be alone in that.
Click to expand...

I guess I just choose to be more optimistic than you. I saw our defense go from bottom 5 to top 8. This flies directly in the face of all the Dame and C.J. can't coexist naysayers, yet it happened. To me, that was a significant improvement that took the team from 41 wins to 49, even though the Western Conference and specifically the NW Division got MUCH tougher.

I also do not believe this group has reached it's ceiling. Our best player just made 1st team All NBA for the first time. He hasn't started to decline, he's still improving. Nurk is 23 and Collins is 20. Those are two key pieces moving forward, and neither has come close to reaching their peak.

We also have a first round pick, two significant trade exceptions and the tax payer MLE to work with. We need a veteran 3 and D wing, either as a 3rd guard or a starting SF. I believe that will be addressed within the next month.

Will we be challenging GSW for a title this coming season? Short of another super team built around LeBron, no one will, but with Dame and C.J. just starting to enter their prime, and Nurk and Collins not even close yet, I still believe we will peak as GSW is beginning to decline.

Personally, even without knowing our final roster, I believe we will win 50+ games, make it to at least the second round and be competitive there, perhaps even make the WCF if the matchups are favorable (i.e. not GSW). That's based on Dame having another 1st team All NBA season, Nurk and Collins improving and using the exceptions and draft to address our biggest weaknesses.

BNM
 
Just stop it with your well reasoned posts - you're wearing out my LIKE button :)
Boob-No-More said:
I guess I just choose to be more optimistic than you. I saw our defense go from bottom 5 to top 8. This flies directly in the face of all the Dame and C.J. can't coexist naysayers, yet it happened. To me, that was a significant improvement that took the team from 41 wins to 49, even though the Western Conference and specifically the NW Division got MUCH tougher.

I also do not believe this group has reached it's ceiling. Our best player just made 1st team All NBA for the first time. He hasn't started to decline, he's still improving. Nurk is 23 and Collins is 20. Those are two key pieces moving forward, and neither has come close to reaching their peak.

We also have a first round pick, two significant trade exceptions and the tax payer MLE to work with. We need a veteran 3 and D wing, either as a 3rd guard or a starting SF. I believe that will be addressed within the next month.

Will we be challenging GSW for a title this coming season? Short of another super team built around LeBron, no one will, but with Dame and C.J. just starting to enter their prime, and Nurk and Collins not even close yet, I still believe we will peak as GSW is beginning to decline.

Personally, even without knowing our final roster, I believe we will win 50+ games, make it to at least the second round and be competitive there, perhaps even make the WCF if the matchups are favorable (i.e. not GSW). That's based on Dame having another 1st team All NBA season, Nurk and Collins improving and using the exceptions and draft to address our biggest weaknesses.

BNM
Click to expand...
 
Boob-No-More said:
I guess I just choose to be more optimistic than you. I saw our defense go from bottom 5 to top 8. This flies directly in the face of all the Dame and C.J. can't coexist naysayers, yet it happened. To me, that was a significant improvement that took the team from 41 wins to 49, even though the Western Conference and specifically the NW Division got MUCH tougher.

I also do not believe this group has reached it's ceiling. Our best player just made 1st team All NBA for the first time. He hasn't started to decline, he's still improving. Nurk is 23 and Collins is 20. Those are two key pieces moving forward, and neither has come close to reaching their peak.

We also have a first round pick, two significant trade exceptions and the tax payer MLE to work with. We need a veteran 3 and D wing, either as a 3rd guard or a starting SF. I believe that will be addressed within the next month.

Will we be challenging GSW for a title this coming season? Short of another super team built around LeBron, no one will, but with Dame and C.J. just starting to enter their prime, and Nurk and Collins not even close yet, I still believe we will peak as GSW is beginning to decline.

Personally, even without knowing our final roster, I believe we will win 50+ games, make it to at least the second round and be competitive there, perhaps even make the WCF if the matchups are favorable (i.e. not GSW). That's based on Dame having another 1st team All NBA season, Nurk and Collins improving and using the exceptions and draft to address our biggest weaknesses.

BNM
Click to expand...
This is a nice story if you take everything at surface value... Blazers were only 3 games from being out of playoffs altogether... they had full training camp and healthiest roster in league while other teams in West dealt with major injuries... Blazers caught opposing teams with their best player out on many nights, which may factor into defensive improvement... completely shut down in playoffs when teams have time to game plan... I don’t see the improvement you do... I can actually see them not making the playoffs next season... seems like moon and stars aligned for 49 wins but they were exposed in playoffs
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Congrats, Noobs. If you don't have LeBron or Duncan on your team, you have not (and probably will not) win
a championship.
Click to expand...
I know they're not a small market but for a team that was in the dumpster...the Chauncy Billups Pistons got a championship the way I think we should...defense and team ball.….not a superstar on that team
 
Boob-No-More said:
I guess I just choose to be more optimistic than you. I saw our defense go from bottom 5 to top 8. This flies directly in the face of all the Dame and C.J. can't coexist naysayers, yet it happened. To me, that was a significant improvement that took the team from 41 wins to 49, even though the Western Conference and specifically the NW Division got MUCH tougher.

I also do not believe this group has reached it's ceiling. Our best player just made 1st team All NBA for the first time. He hasn't started to decline, he's still improving. Nurk is 23 and Collins is 20. Those are two key pieces moving forward, and neither has come close to reaching their peak.

We also have a first round pick, two significant trade exceptions and the tax payer MLE to work with. We need a veteran 3 and D wing, either as a 3rd guard or a starting SF. I believe that will be addressed within the next month.

Will we be challenging GSW for a title this coming season? Short of another super team built around LeBron, no one will, but with Dame and C.J. just starting to enter their prime, and Nurk and Collins not even close yet, I still believe we will peak as GSW is beginning to decline.

Personally, even without knowing our final roster, I believe we will win 50+ games, make it to at least the second round and be competitive there, perhaps even make the WCF if the matchups are favorable (i.e. not GSW). That's based on Dame having another 1st team All NBA season, Nurk and Collins improving and using the exceptions and draft to address our biggest weaknesses.

BNM
Click to expand...
This reminds me of how I felt about the blazers in the 90s. Didn’t happen then either.
 
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