Who Was the Better C: Ayton or Clingan (2 Viewers)

[wizenheimer]

here is a snapshot comparison:



obviously Ayton is a better shooter. That's the main thing he does. But even with that advantage and the fact Clingan struggled at times chipping paint off rims, there really was not a significant advantage in TS% or eFG%. In fact, Clingan averaged 1.31 points/shot while Ayton averaged 1.23 points/shot

I'm biased because I prefer C's who protect the rim, control the paint, and dominate the glass. OK then

in terms of rim protection, if Clingan had averaged enough minutes, his 7.5% block rate would have ranked 2nd in the NBA



and Clingan did lead the NBA in blocks/100-possessions



so then, he absolutely checks the rim protection box

in terms of dominating the paint, I can't recall a Portland C who altered as many opponent shots in the paint as Clingan. Maybe Camby for part of a season; maybe Ratliff. But Clingan was dominant, especially for a rookie

and another component of the paint is offensive rebounding. Again, if Clingan had qualified by minutes, he woud have led the NBA in offensive rebound rate with his 17.3% mark:



and he did finish 2nd to Steven Adams in both off-reb/36 and off-reb/100-possessions. He also kept a bunch of offensive rebounds alive with taps and touches. He was pretty dominant overall on the glass as his 21.6% rate would have been 6th in the NBA. He needs to work on his defensive rebounding a little, but that will come

that's not to say Ayton wasn't a good rebounder; he just wasn't as good as Clingan. He also is not much of a rim protector or paint defender.

neither are good passers. Clingan was much better at getting whistles and FT Rate. I think Clingan was a a little better at setting screens; at least he was in the 2nd half of the season. Clingan and Ayton were even at 4.9 screen-assists/36

Cingan was better in winshare/48, BPM, and VORP

Ayton is a little more mobile but he's still, like Clingan, a drop-coverage type C

personally, I think Clingan was better this season; especially factoring in this was Ayton's 7th season and Clingan was a rookie. But I really don't like Ayton so bias at work?

 

[Pinwheel1]

I thought Clingan got better as the year went on. There is no doubt that if we were forced to keep just one, it would be the young rookie.

But I liked what I heard from Ayton in the exit interview. I think he wants to be in Portland, and he loves Chauncey. Would I trade him for an important addition to the team? Of course, but I am not sure of his value to other teams. Although, as an ending contract, I think it could be decent.

Not sure which was better this last year, but in deciding who is a better fit moving forward, I think it also comes down to who else is on the floor.

For example, if you throw out a defensive line up of Thybulle, Camara, Sharpe, and Deni, I think an offensive center is more beneficial.

If we throw out a line-up that has multiple scorers who can create their own shot, then we need a defensive center like Clingan.
It would be nice to have all 2-way players, but that is easier said than done.

Who knows what the future brings? How much better can Clingan get offensively, and can he stay healthy are two huge questions.

 

[B-Roy]

It was Clingan.

 

[Natebishop3]

Option C: Dooooooowap Reath!

 

[HansenYang]

IMO, both are close as far as impact.

Clingan is more 'steady' and had fewer great and poor games.

Ayton has higher highs and lower lows. It really depends on where he's at mentally.

Ayton SHOULD be the better C, but it doesn't always happen.

 

[riverman]

I think Ayton's injury makes this a skewed comparison...a healthy Ayton the second half with Deni on a hot streak would've looked a lot better on paper than the early part of the season when we sucked as a team. Better the team looked, the better the center looked. Clingan was great but so was Ayton before he got injured. I like having both these guys as a 5 rotation. Ayton is more effective on offense and Clingan is a better rim protecter. Ayton is more Lamarcus Aldrige in his skill set with the elbow jumper.

 

[Everything Beagle]

Clingan was great for a 20 year old rookie on a team with no clear playbook. Ayton did okay for a 26 year old vet in the same situation.

 

[e_blazer]

Obviously, the correct answer is Ayton plus Clingan. Neither guy can manage heavy minutes as a regular thing. Together, they’re a very solid tag team.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Obviously, the correct answer is Ayton plus Clingan. Neither guy can manage heavy minutes as a regular thing. Together, they’re a very solid tag team.

It’s not though because Ayton hurt our team when he was on the floor

 

[superfly4201]

If the question is who I’d want in for the last 4 minutes of an important game to try and win, it’s hands down Ayton.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Clingan. But it doesn't mean that Ayton cant serve a purpose next season. Reath is not good enough to be a Back up to a starter.

 

[kjironman1]

Seems to me Clingan would be even more impactful on the offensive end if he would Dunk a bit more rather than trying to finesse a finger roll all the time.

 

[wizenheimer]

Clingan. But it doesn't mean that Ayton cant serve a purpose next season. Reath is not good enough to be a Back up to a starter.

meaning what? Ayton will be a 35.5M backup C? Or will the better C be moved back to the bench?

 

[blazerfan11]

"Domin-Ayton at setting screens this season."

cued to 2:24

 

[blazerkor]

I'll tell you what, both of them would be a helluva lot better if they'd just dunk the damn ball when they're in the restricted area. Clingan is a fucking giant even by NBA standards and Deandre is a goddamn monster. If either one of them when getting the ball in that restricted area, kept the ball above their shoulders, planted their feet and decided to, they'd dunk everything in that area.

Fucking confounding how that would make things so much easier for them and Nurk and none of them fucking do it. Someone with Ayton's combination of size and athleticism it should be an after thought and the same thing goes for someone just with Clingan's sheer size.

The team should pay Shaq, David Robinson, hell Chris Webber didn't bring any of the weak ass shit that our Cs put up there. I'm only leaving out current players like DeAndre Jordan and a dozen other 6'11" and up guys out because they're still active. Just have one of these other monsters that have been in the league come and "teach" them... I don't know though because both guys do throw it down whenever they decide to.

Fucking exhausting to go from Nurk to these two. Seems like it would be so natural for all of them to do it.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I'll tell you what, both of them would be a helluva lot better if they'd just dunk the damn ball when they're in the restricted area.

100%

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

meaning what? Ayton will be a 35.5M backup C? Or will the better C be moved back to the bench?

Is Bleacher report not a reputable source?
I’m asking.

 

[wizenheimer]

Is Bleacher report not a reputable source?
I’m asking.

bleacher report had something about Ayton/Clingan?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

bleacher report had something about Ayton/Clingan?

Nope. Never said it did. But if you aren't going to answer my question, why do you think yours deserves my answer? Come on now…

 

[wizenheimer]

Nope. Never said it did. But if you aren't going to answer my question, why do you think yours deserves my answer? Come on now…

I have no idea what you're talking about

 

[cheesehoff]

I'm having a hard time believing what I'm reading. A month or so ago, people were begging for a third round pick in exchange for Ayton. Now, he's a good option because he had a good exit interview and he still has potential to improve?!?! Wow!
Keep starting him and Grant and Simon and this team will be a perennial playin team. No other way about it. The only successful rebuilds are the total rebuilds. You can't start the process and then 3 years in decide to try and make it work with what you've got.
Get rid of DA, Ant, Simons. Start and play the young guys. Draft as many talented guys as you can to get as many shots at future contributors as possible. There are clearly two different age groups now. The overpriced vets are what they are and expecting them to work out their shortcomings is foolish...almost ignorant. They've taken this team as far as they are capable of and that's not very far at all.
But, let's run it back with the same team led by flawed, overpaid vets and see if they can turn it around next year?! It's like deja vu all over again.

 

[blazerkor]

I'm having a hard time believing what I'm reading. A month or so ago, people were begging for a third round pick in exchange for Ayton. Now, he's a good option because he had a good exit interview and he still has potential to improve?!?! Wow!
Keep starting him and Grant and Simon and this team will be a perennial playin team. No other way about it. The only successful rebuilds are the total rebuilds. You can't start the process and then 3 years in decide to try and make it work with what you've got.
Get rid of DA, Ant, Simons. Start and play the young guys. Draft as many talented guys as you can to get as many shots at future contributors as possible. There are clearly two different age groups now. The overpriced vets are what they are and expecting them to work out their shortcomings is foolish...almost ignorant. They've taken this team as far as they are capable of and that's not very far at all.
But, let's run it back with the same team led by flawed, overpaid vets and see if they can turn it around next year?! It's like deja vu all over again.

I'm with you. I think we'll get our wish with Ant and Jerami... I feel like our hopes to be rid of Deandre by opening day are slim.

Ant sounded like he was sick of being here in his interview during the game and said a lot of thank yous. Jerami said him, his agent and Joe need to figure things out. DA just went off about how he loves it here and I just don't think Joe is going to send out two future second round picks to get rid of him... I hope I'm wrong about needing to include the picks and I hope I'm wrong about us not being able to get rid of Ayton.

 

[kjironman1]

Is Bleacher report not a reputable source?
I’m asking.

Some people don't seem to like them but they seem to be on top of quite a few things. I don't have a problem with them.

 

[wizenheimer]

Some people don't seem to like them but they seem to be on top of quite a few things. I don't have a problem with them.

I don't have much a problem with them either, I just don't know what they have to do with Ayton vs Clingan

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

I don't have much a problem with them either, I just don't know what they have to do with Ayton vs Clingan

Go back to the Billups thread or check your alerts for the answer to this…
You miss alot of posts…

 

[wizenheimer]

Go back to the Billups thread or check your alerts for the answer to this…
You miss alot of posts…

ok...got it now...and yes, I miss a lot of posts

is Bleacher Report credible? probably, generally. I know they got some stuff wrong when they were starting out. I'm assuming as their stature has increased they have got better

I'm not sure that means everybody employed, associated, or affiliated with them is always right or credible. ESPN, when reporting, is generally credible. Their employees, Skip Bayless and Steven A Smith? not so much. I would imagine a lot of people find Shams Charania credible. But Blazer fans remember his bogus reporting about Payton and Toradol injections.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

ok...got it now...and yes, I miss a lot of posts

is Bleacher Report credible? probably, generally. I know they got some stuff wrong when they were starting out. I'm assuming as their stature has increased they have got better

I'm not sure that means everybody employed, associated, or affiliated with them is always right or credible. ESPN, when reporting, is generally credible. Their employees, Skip Bayless and Steven A Smith? not so much. I would imagine a lot of people find Shams Charania credible. But Blazer fans remember his bogus reporting about Payton and Toradol injections.

Great points. Shams is now dead to me for not retracting that toradol crap. Lol
Thanks for the clarification!

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

meaning what? Ayton will be a 35.5M backup C? Or will the better C be moved back to the bench?

Meaning im fine with him being a starter for one more year as long as Clingan still gets 25-30 minutes a game. Or im fine switching who starts based on the matchups. Their games are so different i can see both being a better option than the other, given the situation.

I dont think his salary is a factor because if we do what we all know needs to be done( shed Ant and Grants salary), then we are fine.

I think it would be fine for Clingan to come off the bench one more year, let Ayton show he can ball and then trade him at the deadline.
I know… wishful thinking.

 

[wizenheimer]

I think it would be fine for Clingan to come off the bench one more year, let Ayton show he can ball and then trade him at the deadline.
I know… wishful thinking.

my take is that if Portland is going fro wins next season and shooting for the play-in, they should start the C that gives them the best chance of winning. That's Clingan IMO. He was better this season, and I'd assume he will improve a lot more next season than will Ayton

but if there's a general reboot next year, I'd imagine Billups will start Ayton again

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

The eye test favored Clingan and the stats seem to indicate it's not close. Will be interesting to see how Billups tries to figure this out.....