Who would you trade CJ McCollum for?

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theprunetang said:
I see that about finishing at the rim and drawing fouls. Remember though that Lillard used to be terrible at the rim as well. He can improve. And I am not thinking cj for president either. I just haven't personally been impressed with any of the realistic ideas. And trading just for the sake of it is dumb and counterintuitive.
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He can, and probably will improve- but how much is the key. I'm going thru and trying to find instances where a player has improved THAT much to get from so sub par to even average. Yes, trading just to trade- is beyond ridiculous. That's why the question was prefaced as to who would you trade him for? It gets to the crux of the issue- forces people to look a bit deeper into what risk vs reward and opportunity costs exist, and then decisions can be made a bit more effectively.
 
to the OP. I wouldn't trade him. He literally is like the only guard that can get a shot off at the rim with any sort of above average success.

Dame can sort of, but telegraphs so much he gets blocked to shit.
 
blue32 said:
to the OP. I wouldn't trade him. He literally is like the only guard that can get a shot off at the rim with any sort of above average success.

Dame can sort of, but telegraphs so much he gets blocked to shit.
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you had me until you said "at the rim..." That's literally the one place CJ is a walking dumpster fire. He's so far below league average around the rim that I'm really struggling, trying to figure out how/why- and any one else in NBA history who was so prolific from everywhere else on the court and I'm coming up with nothing. I'll have more when I post my player profile tonight/tomorrow on CJ- but so far it's leading me nowhere...
 
Dan Marang said:
you had me until you said "at the rim..." That's literally the one place CJ is a walking dumpster fire. He's so far below league average around the rim that I'm really struggling, trying to figure out how/why- and any one else in NBA history who was so prolific from everywhere else on the court and I'm coming up with nothing. I'll have more when I post my player profile tonight/tomorrow on CJ- but so far it's leading me nowhere...
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How would you compare CJ with Ben Gordon in his prime?
 
You know- that's probably the single best comp I've seen anyone come up with in both play style and stature. Gordon was better at the rim and a better athlete. CJ has the better handle and a more consistent shot. Both could/can get red hot almost instantly, CJ at this point looks to be the better playmaker. Looking at their shooting splits, it's crazy close how their distribution plays out- there's minor differences but for the most part, their games were a lot alike.

If you believe that's CJ's ceiling- you trade him now- b/c his value screams that he's at/near his peak. If you think he has another level still, then he's worth keeping over the long haul.
 
0-Our! said:
I don't think u read the entire question/post: "...who would you REALISTICALLY be okay with trading CJ for..."

I like CJ a lot & he's very good but... for Marc Gasol (even CJ for the other Gasol straight up is questionable) or KAT...? KAT's pretty much a lock to b a Hall of Famer, u think CJ will ever b close to even consideration for HOF?o_O
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How do you know that would never happen? CJ is young and Gasol/Milsap are past 30. KAT a hall of fame lock? Yeah...ok.
 
Ah, I should have known to avoid trade threads. Some stupid bitch always replies "That would never happen blah blah blah blah" :blahblah:
 
Scalma said:
Ever since the hoop summit I've thought wiggins was another batum. All the talent in the world, but lacking that killer instinct to make him great. He's a role player on a good team.
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My sentiments as well.
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
He is the only low post player in the NBA that can absolutely dominate anybody offensively. He needs a change of scenery desperately, he was a headcase coming into the NBA and was drafted to the least stable team in the league possibly. Portland would be fantastic for him, it can hide him from the media and he will have stability and a couple locker room leaders in place, he won't have to be the man. He will get to be the #2 man he really is meant to be in today's NBA.
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Say what?!? Quick, James & company would have a field day if we brought in Cousins. Not saying I'm opposed as he is highly talented but he IS a headcase and not sure if just a change of scenery will fix that enough to be worth it.

....hide him from the media....

hahaha
 
Dan Marang said:
I'm in the midst of doing some research for the article/podcast this week and with all of the crazy Bill Simmons "who says no?" type trades out there, one thing kept popping up in my mind- "who would Blazers fans be okay with trading CJ for?"

Kevin Love and Blake Griffin have already been brought up, so the level of which national writers are talking is pretty high. I'd like to preface this with who would you REALISTICALLY be okay with trading CJ for- but one man's realism is another man's pipe dream. Keep in mind the salary cap, form and fit, and the timeline laid out by Olshey and who's the guy you're willing to give up CJ for?

Does a CJ for Andrew Wiggins deal go past what you think could happen? Let's hear the ideas, I'm genuinely interested in what the hive has to say.
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Lamarcus Aldridge
 
Dan Marang said:
you had me until you said "at the rim..." That's literally the one place CJ is a walking dumpster fire. He's so far below league average around the rim that I'm really struggling, trying to figure out how/why- and any one else in NBA history who was so prolific from everywhere else on the court and I'm coming up with nothing. I'll have more when I post my player profile tonight/tomorrow on CJ- but so far it's leading me nowhere...
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I don't know what analytic measurement you are using to come up with the conclusion that CJ is a walking dumpster fire at the rim, but my eye balls tells me that he continues to deliver incredible driving layups in traffic. (Like the one last night they have been showing on the highlight reals) But I also think the poster you were responding to was making the point that CJ can also attack the basket, along with his other repertoire of shots, which puts him in select company. The runners/floaters which are not technically at the rim, also should be included in the "at the rim" category for this particular discussion.
 
Dan Marang said:
yeah, that Roy (beyond the fact he would've been a HoF) would have been absolutely devastating alongside Dame.
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Nope - that Roy would have bitched and moaned about not having the ball in his hands enough to run 18 ISOs per game. He was nearly as much of a diva as bitchmade LMA is. Roy was fantastically talented, but fuck him.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I don't know what analytic measurement you are using to come up with the conclusion that CJ is a walking dumpster fire at the rim, but my eye balls tells me that he continues to deliver incredible driving layups in traffic. (Like the one last night they have been showing on the highlight reals) But I also think the poster you were responding to was making the point that CJ can also attack the basket, along with his other repertoire of shots, which puts him in select company. The runners/floaters which are not technically at the rim, also should be included in the "at the rim" category for this particular discussion.
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I had to look it up myself, but it appears to be true:
http://stats.nba.com/league/player/...ft. FG PCT&dir=-1&CF=Less Than 5 ft. FGA*GE*2

My parameters were for guards who take at least 2 shots from "less than 5 feet", and CJ has the 4th worst FG%. Dame is 8th worst.
I believe a lot of this is due to the fact that Stotts offense simply does not have any plays that are designed to get good looks around the basket. Get a new coach who understands screens, movement and passing and I bet we see a 5-10% increase in both Dame's and CJ's ability to finish at the rim.
 
0-Our! said:
I don't think u read the entire question/post: "...who would you REALISTICALLY be okay with trading CJ for..."

I like CJ a lot & he's very good but... for Marc Gasol (even CJ for the other Gasol straight up is questionable) or KAT...? KAT's pretty much a lock to b a Hall of Famer, u think CJ will ever b close to even consideration for HOF?o_O
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Huh? Lock at HOF???????? I dont know if Ive ever smoked that much to be that delusional..
NOt saying he wont make it, but Lock???? If he is a lock then they shoulda voted in Dame last year.....

GrandpaBlaze said:
Say what?!? Quick, James & company would have a field day if we brought in Cousins. Not saying I'm opposed as he is highly talented but he IS a headcase and not sure if just a change of scenery will fix that enough to be worth it.

....hide him from the media....

hahaha
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I think he meant national media. Those guys are small town jokers.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I don't know what analytic measurement you are using to come up with the conclusion that CJ is a walking dumpster fire at the rim, but my eye balls tells me that he continues to deliver incredible driving layups in traffic. (Like the one last night they have been showing on the highlight reals) But I also think the poster you were responding to was making the point that CJ can also attack the basket, along with his other repertoire of shots, which puts him in select company. The runners/floaters which are not technically at the rim, also should be included in the "at the rim" category for this particular discussion.
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[GALLERY=media, 32]CJ_midrange_qualified31Jan16 by Dan Marang posted Jan 31, 2016 at 5:16 PM[/GALLERY]

I've referenced this before- he's a dumpster fire inside. 44% is a ridiculously low number by comparison. While he's a fantastic midrange shooter, he's not so good in the midrange that it makes his sub par inside game okay. He would have to shoot so well from mid to offset this disparity that it's not even worth an argument. Hitting some wild off balance shots/layups in a game does not constitute a consistent ability or capability. It may give insight as to potential, but potential is just a measurement for what results could be, not a guarantee of future gains.
 
Dan Marang said:
[GALLERY=media, 32]CJ_midrange_qualified31Jan16 by Dan Marang posted Jan 31, 2016 at 5:16 PM[/GALLERY]

I've referenced this before- he's a dumpster fire inside. 44% is a ridiculously low number by comparison. While he's a fantastic midrange shooter, he's not so good in the midrange that it makes his sub par inside game okay. He would have to shoot so well from mid to offset this disparity that it's not even worth an argument. Hitting some wild off balance shots/layups in a game does not constitute a consistent ability or capability. It may give insight as to potential, but potential is just a measurement for what results could be, not a guarantee of future gains.
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Yeah, but people see those spectacular reverse layups and they forget about the 5-10 times that he drives into a pack of guys and throws it up.
 
Dan Marang said:
[GALLERY=media, 32]he's a dumpster fire inside. 44% is a ridiculously low number by comparison.[/GALLERY]
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It's almost like, because he's not getting whistles like every other guard who drives the lane and tosses up a shot, his FG% is suffering for it. Huh. Weird. Almost like the refs determine your shooting percentage by how they call the game.
 
Dan Marang said:
you had me until you said "at the rim..." That's literally the one place CJ is a walking dumpster fire. He's so far below league average around the rim that I'm really struggling, trying to figure out how/why- and any one else in NBA history who was so prolific from everywhere else on the court and I'm coming up with nothing. I'll have more when I post my player profile tonight/tomorrow on CJ- but so far it's leading me nowhere...
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I agree about CJ and his problems finishing in the paint...it looks as though he uses moves that dazzled on the college level but will not be successful in the pros.
I will say that last night he finished a few driving reverse layups with pure speed. If he continues...then he's already improving as the season unfolds
 
BlazerCaravan said:
It's almost like, because he's not getting whistles like every other guard who drives the lane and tosses up a shot, his FG% is suffering for it. Huh. Weird. Almost like the refs determine your shooting percentage by how they call the game.
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Shirley you're not suggesting that the refs officiate different players differently?
I need to go back to Kansas.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
It's almost like, because he's not getting whistles like every other guard who drives the lane and tosses up a shot, his FG% is suffering for it. Huh. Weird. Almost like the refs determine your shooting percentage by how they call the game.
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So you're saying that CJ's inability to get to the free throw line, on a historically low level is being dictated by the officials? Among all the players in NBA history the refs hate CJ the most? C'mon now.... that's got to be one of the most disingenuous arguments I've ever heard.

You think all the refs are conspiring against him or just some? Is there an elite illuminati group of refs who are out there saying CJ is to be the barer of the Apocalypse and he must be stopped from being efficient!!

I get conspiracy theories. I take part in them sometimes because they're fun. But willingly believing that CJ is the only one in the NBA not getting whistles is not a road I'm going to go down. CJ doesn't get whistles b/c he shies away from contact. That's what it comes down to. I'll have some links to show exactly what I mean, but after everything I've dug into, that seems to be the crux of it. Now, does that play into CJ not getting whistles when he does get contact? Probably. But are refs actively engaging in CJ sabotage? No.
 
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