Who would you trade up for?

[BonesJones]

So, you're saying that he is a real Ball Buster.......










I'm sorry.

I was thinking about putting a Ball bust pun in there as well. Haha.

 

[BonesJones]

Jones I often agree with your analysis on players. Which is why I am so surprised with how wrong you are on this one. I hope you are right. I hope he is a bust. I want him to be a bust badly. I just don't see it. The one thing I am not sure about with him is a pull up mid range jumper. But as ugly as his shot is, he will be fine from deep. He might not be a superstar but he is nothing like ET. He is a true point guard all the way. He has great court vision and passing skills. If Deron Williams can get to the basket as a young player, then so can Ball. I just can't see him being a bust.

He reminds me of ET in the matter of him not being able to create because his speed and handles aren't enough to create his own or shots for teammates at the NBA level. You didn't really address my main point!

Deron Williams got the rim because he was so strong. Ball is super skinny, and won't be able to bully his way into the lane.

 

[BonesJones]

He gets pushed around in the post and is not able to keep his box out position. He can't guard PFs and won't be able to unless he gains another 30 lbs. And with his frame that's not happening. I'd keep him at SF.

If he adds 20 lbs he'll be fine at PF. With the way the PF position is going he'll be better suited there.

 

[PDXFonz]

Unless we are offering Dame or CJ, Fultz didn't seem to be an option. One could make an argument that a Fultz/CJ backcourt could be very effective, but that isn't going to happen.

Fultz isn't, but Ball is?!?

 

[Pinwheel1]

He reminds me of ET in the matter of him not being able to create because his speed and handles aren't enough to create his own or shots for teammates at the NBA level. You didn't really address my main point!

Deron Williams got the rim because he was so strong. Ball is super skinny, and won't be able to bully his way into the lane.

He is super skinny now but he is very young. His size will be an advantage after a year. (6'6" in shoes) He will fill out.

So is your main point his lack of speed and handles? Here is the analysis from draftexpress. Most people agree:

"When discussing the Lonzo Ball experience, it would be impossible not to start with his elite transition play. Ball has virtually the entire package in this regard, from his ability to force turnovers and grab defensive boards to ignite the break, the breakneck speed he operates at with the ball in his hands, his elite creativity and passing accuracy, and even right down to his knowledge of when to push the ball himself and when to give it up to his teammates. The ball doesn't stick, his decision making is quick, and his creativity and vision are nothing short of elite. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Lonzo-Ball-7229/ ©DraftExpress"

 

[BonesJones]

He is super skinny now but he is very young. His size will be an advantage after a year. (6'6" in shoes) He will fill out.

So is your main point his lack of speed and handles? Here is the analysis from draftexpress. Most people agree:

"When discussing the Lonzo Ball experience, it would be impossible not to start with his elite transition play. Ball has virtually the entire package in this regard, from his ability to force turnovers and grab defensive boards to ignite the break, the breakneck speed he operates at with the ball in his hands, his elite creativity and passing accuracy, and even right down to his knowledge of when to push the ball himself and when to give it up to his teammates. The ball doesn't stick, his decision making is quick, and his creativity and vision are nothing short of elite. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Lonzo-Ball-7229/ ©DraftExpress"

Its his lack of acceleration, not speed, and his inability to break down a defender with his handle. His height won't help him get by anyone. He'll fill out but will never be the type to bully his way to the rim.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Its his lack of acceleration, not speed, and his inability to break down a defender with his handle. His height won't help him get by anyone. He'll fill out but will never be the type to bully his way to the rim.

I hope you are right.

 

[Reep]

Fultz isn't, but Ball is?!?

I originally left Ball off, but saw some weird remarks that implied some where interested in him. So, I added him just to see what would happen. I honestly believe that the top 5 spots are completely unobtainable by Portland without trading Dame, CJ or Nurk. After that 6-9 are theoretically possible, but highly unlikely, with 10 and after being realistically in play.

 

[Reep]

He is super skinny now but he is very young. His size will be an advantage after a year. (6'6" in shoes) He will fill out.

So is your main point his lack of speed and handles? Here is the analysis from draftexpress. Most people agree:

"When discussing the Lonzo Ball experience, it would be impossible not to start with his elite transition play. Ball has virtually the entire package in this regard, from his ability to force turnovers and grab defensive boards to ignite the break, the breakneck speed he operates at with the ball in his hands, his elite creativity and passing accuracy, and even right down to his knowledge of when to push the ball himself and when to give it up to his teammates. The ball doesn't stick, his decision making is quick, and his creativity and vision are nothing short of elite. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Lonzo-Ball-7229/ ©DraftExpress"

His transition speed is not in question. It is his speed and handle in the half court that is. He has not shown, nor did he have to with UCLA's offense, much ability to dominate in the half court to the extent he did in transition. When forced into the half court he seemed to struggle.

 

[PDXFonz]

I originally left Ball off, but saw some weird remarks that implied some where interested in him. So, I added him just to see what would happen. I honestly believe that the top 5 spots are completely unobtainable by Portland without trading Dame, CJ or Nurk. After that 6-9 are theoretically possible, but highly unlikely, with 10 and after being realistically in play.

If we were to get ball it would be with the number 1, assuming the lakers want him. Which means anybody is an option, and Fultz > Ball. At least that's the way I look at it.

 

[Pinwheel1]

His transition speed is not in question. It is his speed and handle in the half court that is. He has not shown, nor did he have to with UCLA's offense, much ability to dominate in the half court to the extent he did in transition. When forced into the half court he seemed to struggle.

I am not sure Alford even has a half court offense. Their offense was terrible two years ago before Ball and they led the nation in offense last year. He elevated his teammates. He is far from a finished product. Not sure there is one player in the lottery who is. They all need to improve. But to me Ball has the it factor. His length and vision and passing ability will keep him from being a bust. We will see if Luke Walton is the right guy to teach him how to be a NBA player.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Tatum would vault this team to the next level IMO.

He's pretty much everything we need at SF.

 

[Reep]

I am not sure Alford even has a half court offense. Their offense was terrible two years ago before Ball and hey led the nation in offense last year. He elevated his teammates. He is far from a finished product. Not sure there is one player in the lottery who is. They all need to improve. But to me Ball has the it factor. His length and vision and passing ability will keep him from being a bust. We will see if Luke Walton is the right guy to teach him how to be a NBA player.

If Ball works hard on his ball handling in the half court then he might make it. It's not that he can't do it. It is just untested.

 

[BonesJones]

I am not sure Alford even has a half court offense. Their offense was terrible two years ago before Ball and hey led the nation in offense last year. He elevated his teammates. He is far from a finished product. Not sure there is one player in the lottery who is. They all need to improve. But to me Ball has the it factor. His length and vision and passing ability will keep him from being a bust. We will see if Luke Walton is the right guy to teach him how to be a NBA player.

They said the same thing about Ricky Rubio.

 

[dviss1]

If he adds 20 lbs he'll be fine at PF. With the way the PF position is going he'll be better suited there.

I disagree. And adding 20 lbs is gonna be hard with those narrow shoulders.

20 lbs isn't enough.

 

[Blazer4ever]

You're looking at this all wrong, if I compared him to Stockton (and I still think it's the most accurate comparison) how many reasons were there to not select Stockton because of his size, strength, athletic ability? But they both have superior court vision, decision making and basketball IQ, these are things you can't measure

 

[dviss1]

You're looking at this all wrong, if I compared him to Stockton (and I still think it's the most accurate comparison) how many reasons were there to not select Stockton because of his size, strength, athletic ability? But they both have superior court vision, decision making and basketball IQ, these are things you can't measure

They're looking at Stockton post career not pre career.

 

[BonesJones]

You're looking at this all wrong, if I compared him to Stockton (and I still think it's the most accurate comparison) how many reasons were there to not select Stockton because of his size, strength, athletic ability? But they both have superior court vision, decision making and basketball IQ, these are things you can't measure

You can't take a players weaknesses and say, "well this generational, one-of-a-kind talent had some of the same weakness, so this prospect will be just like them.". That's ridiculous.

Stockton had a much quicker first step than Lonzo. In the multiple games I watched Lonzo I never even saw him blow by a college defender. Stockton also had a better handle. Ball's passing is no where near as good as Stockton's. A lot of Balls passing is basic reads in transition.

Your way to evaluate prospects is to watch their highlights, then if you like them, compare them to a one-of-a-kind great.

If you want to know about Lonzos weaknesses, watch The Kentucky vs. UCLA Tournament game.

Here's the full game highlights, tell me, who's the better PG? De'Aaron Fox lit him up for 39.

 

[chzbrgr]

If you want to know about Lonzos weaknesses, watch The Kentucky vs. UCLA Tournament game.

Here's the full game highlights, tell me, who's the better PG? De'Aaron Fox lit him up for 39.

This.

UUUUUGE De'arron Fox fan

 

[BonesJones]

This.

UUUUUGE De'arron Fox fan

He's just the better player, and he has the potential to become a 35% 3pt shooter. Every other aspect of his game is top notch. Should be Top 3 with Tatum and Fultz.

 

[Blazer4ever]

You can't take a players weaknesses and say, "well this generational, one-of-a-kind talent had some of the same weakness, so this prospect will be just like them.". That's ridiculous.

Stockton had a much quicker first step than Lonzo. In the multiple games I watched Lonzo I never even saw him blow by a college defender. Stockton also had a better handle. Ball's passing is no where near as good as Stockton's. A lot of Balls passing is basic reads in transition.

Your way to evaluate prospects is to watch their highlights, then if you like them, compare them to a one-of-a-kind great.

If you want to know about Lonzos weaknesses, watch The Kentucky vs. UCLA Tournament game.

Here's the full game highlights, tell me, who's the better PG? De'Aaron Fox lit him up for 39.

Don't know DeAaron Fox, didn't watch that game. Mostly watched the highlights of Ball's UCLA against Fultz's Washington where UCLA won by 40. I Didn't watch every game he played but have seen enough sample size to form an opinion

 

[BonesJones]

Don't know DeAaron Fox, didn't watch that game. Mostly watched the highlights of Ball's UCLA against Fultz's Washington where UCLA won by 40. I Didn't watch every game he played but have seen enough sample size to form an opinion

Fultz' Washington team was trash. You just said you mostly watched a highlight tape from a single game. Cmon man..

 

[Blazer4ever]

Fultz' Washington team was trash. You just said you mostly watched a highlight tape from a single game. Cmon man..

I watched enough. You think watching a player's highlight film is more telling?
I watched him more or less through an entire game

 

[Scalma]

I don't see how Lonzo Ball is going to be successful without the ability to really create his own shot or beat an NBA player off the dribble. That might work at other positions, but not at point guard. It's pretty much Ricky Rubio, but Rubio was A LOT more advanced in the pick and roll than Ball coming out.

 

[BonesJones]

I watched enough. You think watching a player's highlight film is more telling?
I watched him more or less through an entire game

Lmao. I'm saying watching a highlight take isn't telling at all but you use it as a basis for your opinion. "More or less" you watched him play in one game and that's enough to dub him John Stockton 2.0???