Who's got your vote?

[Rick2583]

Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, Carlos Delgado, Nomar Garciaparra, & Gary Sheffield are among 17 first timers up for HOF consideration.

Will the numbers go up or down for Clemens (35% last year) And Bonds (36% last year) McGwire received only 11% last year & Sosa risks being dropped from the group next year unless he receives the required 5%. Last year he only received 7%

And sadly Don Mattingly is in his 15th & final year of eligibility. Where did the years go?

 

[blgridesagain]

Randy Johnson and Pedro are no-brainers.
Smoltz, close..I like Smoltz but he was a very good pitcher, NOT great, imo.
And I put less stock into his record as a reliever as just about everyone else does.
Just because he HAD TO convert to a reliever doesn't necessarily mean he was an all-star/HOF caliber reliever for his time as a closer.

Delgado - nope
Garciaparra - nope (I'll eat my shorts if he gets elected to the HOF) lol
Sheffield - you can keep his fancy numbers, I smell roids and I'll NEVER forget him admitting he intentionally threw balls away for errors with Milwaukee just to get off 3b or traded. DOG

 

[Hammerojustice]

Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, Carlos Delgado, Nomar Garciaparra, & Gary Sheffield are among 17 first timers up for HOF consideration.

Will the numbers go up or down for Clemens (35% last year) And Bonds (36% last year) McGwire received only 11% last year & Sosa risks being dropped from the group next year unless he receives the required 5%. Last year he only received 7%

And sadly Don Mattingly is in his 15th & final year of eligibility. Where did the years go?

Randy - yes
Pedro - I h he is delayed a year, but yes
Smolltz - yes
Delgado - no
Nomad - no
Sheffield - no
Clemens - down
Bonds - down
McGwire - down
Sosa - down
Mattingly - unfortunately falls short

Who else is up???

 

[totus44]

Yes to the Unit. Yes to Pedro in another year or two. No to the rest, and obviously down to the 4 Horsemen of the Syringe. As for Sheff, sadly no as he is in the same camp as Giambi in my book. They weren't taking banned substances but knew full well they were taking something designed around the rules....goes to the intent of the act (in my book).

Mattingly is gonna have to go into the hall as a manager/lifetime achievement ala Torre. Not saying its right, just how it is.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Yes to Johnson. Yes to Pedro, and I'd be shocked if he isn't first-ballot. He'll be (rightfully or not) compared with Koufax in the "SuperDominant for a bit, not enough rest-of-career" numbers. Smoltz may not get in 1st time. Clemens and Bonds probably stay about the same. McGwire and Sosa down.

I think Edgar Martinez might (rightfully, IMO) go up.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

I hate the...well he isn't a first ballot kind of guy, bullshit either he is a HOF'er or not.

Johnson......... Yes
Pedro............. Yes
Smoltz........... Yes
no one else

I do vote Bonds and Clemens but they wont get in

 

[Rick2583]

Randy - yes
Pedro - I h he is delayed a year, but yes
Smolltz - yes
Delgado - no
Nomad - no
Sheffield - no
Clemens - down
Bonds - down
McGwire - down
Sosa - down
Mattingly - unfortunately falls short

Who else is up???

Steve the others that are on the ballot are.....

Biggio (he'll get in this time)
Rich Aurillia *
Jeff Bagwell
Aaron Boone *
Tony Clark *
Jermaine Dye *
Darin Erstad *
Cliff floyd *
Brian Giles *
Tom Gordon *
Eddie Guardado *
Jeff Kent
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Troy Percival *
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Jason Schmidt *
Lee Smith
Alan Tramell
Larry Walker

NOTE: * indicates "What the fuck were they thinking"

 

[Mattingly23NY]

I'd say yes to:

The Big Unit

Pedro

Smoltz close, may be next year? Maybe this year.

We should see both Clemens and Balco Barry's vote pctg, begin to taper down lower than they already are.

I'd like to see Edgar Martinez get in, as well, believe it or not, IMO, Edgar was a cluth DH, and perhaps the best DH of his time, then some. The Crime Dog too.

IMO, McGriff is one of the least underrated 1st baggers, and a helluva hitter. Had good years in Diego, Toronto, and Atlanta. Tampa, the Cubs, (as a Cub at 38 yrs of age,: (30 HR's and 103 RBI's).......even played with those Bums of L.A. I'd of liked to see him as a DH, when Donnie BB had 1st base locked down.


After all Fred has 493 HR's, and I've never felt anyone under 500 HR's should be excluded. At least he got to see Series Play with Atlanta, yet I'd of loved to of seen The Crime Dog still in Toronto, during their back to back Series Wins. But then if that happened there would of been no Joe Carter to win that last game vs Wild Thing Mitch...
I had a SI, article on The Crime Dog, and how as a Rookie, he was hitting Bombs over the upper deck of RF, and out of the park. How the entire team would shut down to watch Fred take his At Bats, during BP....but then, he deserved to play full time somewhere.

 

[blgridesagain]

Steve the others that are on the ballot are.....

Biggio (he'll get in this time)
Rich Aurillia *
Jeff Bagwell
Aaron Boone *
Tony Clark *
Jermaine Dye *
Darin Erstad *
Cliff floyd *
Brian Giles *
Tom Gordon *
Eddie Guardado *
Jeff Kent
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Troy Percival *
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Jason Schmidt *
Lee Smith
Alan Tramell
Larry Walker

NOTE: * indicates "What the fuck were they thinking"

__________________________________

Biggio - YES
Kent - YES, cannot dispute his numbers as a 2b and he wasn't a hack on defense.
Edgar Martinez - YES if they're going to recognize DH as a "position".
McGriff - NO
Mussina - YES (someday soon)
He was every bit as good as Glavine and the record proves it.
Piazza - YES
Lee Smith - NO
Raines - YES (someday soon)

Schilling - Falls into the Smoltz category, very good/excellent- not all time great.

*I believe Smoltz and Schilling will eventually get voted in because they also fall into the "well liked by the media" category......neither one should go in BEFORE MIKE MUSSINA.

*Keep in mind - the last time I checked, post season performance wasn't a factor/requirement in HOF voting. You can't hold it against a player if he never appeared in the post season/WS, nor can you penalize him if he sucked in the post season, AND he doesn't get extra "points" or credit if he did very well in postseason or played on WS winners.

Some continue to use that case when comparing Puckett and Mattingly's career numbers....but they also seem to overlook Mattingly's lone POST SEASON performance, he was GREAT.


Walker/Trammel - NO
Walker -Coors hitter, but I do think Trammel has been underrated...
...the rest aren't worthy of an individual comment.

 

[Hammerojustice]

Steve the others that are on the ballot are.....

Biggio (he'll get in this time)
Rich Aurillia *
Jeff Bagwell
Aaron Boone *
Tony Clark *
Jermaine Dye *
Darin Erstad *
Cliff floyd *
Brian Giles *
Tom Gordon *
Eddie Guardado *
Jeff Kent
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Troy Percival *
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Jason Schmidt *
Lee Smith
Alan Tramell
Larry Walker

NOTE: * indicates "What the fuck were they thinking"

Biggio, Lent, Piazza, Edgar, & Mussina yes, all others no

 

[Rick2583]

As great a DH as Edgar was I still don't think someone who played only 1/2 the game should be in the hall. JMO. I also think Raines deserves a shot. OH! & did I mention that some of the names on that list has to meant as a joke? And yet some dumb bastard will waste a vote on them.

 

[Hammerojustice]

As great a DH as Edgar was I still don't think someone who played only 1/2 the game should be in the hall. JMO. I also think Raines deserves a shot. OH! & did I mention that some of the names on that list has to meant as a joke? And yet some dumb bastard will waste a vote on them.

AL pitchers only play half the gave once every 5 get they get in.......

 

[Mattingly23NY]

__________________________________


Some continue to use that case when comparing Puckett and Mattingly's career numbers....but they also seem to overlook Mattingly's lone POST SEASON performance, he was GREAT.


Walker/Trammel - NO
Walker -Coors hitter, but I do think Trammel has been underrated...
...the rest aren't worthy of an individual comment.

I also think Trammel is under rated, at one time IMO, Trammel to Whitaker Turn 2, were one of the better middle infielders in their time.

Funny how Post Season is not supposed to count. Yet look at Mattingly vs Puckett, remove the Post Season Rings, and both have damn near identical as it gets lifetime numbers. Mattingly was better defensively than Kirby IMO as well.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

Yet, I won't make the arguement that Donnie BB should be in the HOF, I don't think Puckett should be either.

We pretty much beat the dead horse of Yanx who should or shouldn't be in the Hallowed Halls, way back in the BSPN Board days. I recall getting hammered by saying I thought Donnie S/B in the HOF. Tho' it was more an eye opener for me, as in all respect, Donnie just didn't put up enough years offensively, to amount to a HOF career....Shucks...

 

[blgridesagain]

I also think Trammel is under rated, at one time IMO, Trammel to Whitaker Turn 2, were one of the better middle infielders in their time.

Funny how Post Season is not supposed to count. Yet look at Mattingly vs Puckett, remove the Post Season Rings, and both have damn near identical as it gets lifetime numbers. Mattingly was better defensively than Kirby IMO as well.

___________________________

imo, Trammel and Whitaker were one of the best DP/SS-2B combos of all time.
Played together and produced for a long time. Outstanding.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

___________________________

imo, Trammel and Whitaker were one of the best DP/SS-2B combos of all time.
Played together and produced for a long time. Outstanding.

Amen, damn near as good as Tinker to Evers To Chance....well at least in their own era, Trammel and Whitaker were no doubt the best 1, 2 up the middle infielders, to Turn 2....the premier players in their time, unequalled...IMO...

 

[Rick2583]

Amen, damn near as good as Tinker to Evers To Chance....well at least in their own era, Trammel and Whitaker were no doubt the best 1, 2 up the middle infielders, to Turn 2....the premier players in their time, unequalled...IMO...

The Cubs Beckett & Kissinger weren't bad either.

 

[Hammerojustice]

Yet, I won't make the arguement that Donnie BB should be in the HOF, I don't think Puckett should be either.

We pretty much beat the dead horse of Yanx who should or shouldn't be in the Hallowed Halls, way back in the BSPN Board days. I recall getting hammered by saying I thought Donnie S/B in the HOF. Tho' it was more an eye opener for me, as in all respect, Donnie just didn't put up enough years offensively, to amount to a HOF career....Shucks...

What did I do???

 

[totus44]

I do vote Bonds and Clemens but they wont get in

I salute your honesty. I'd be inclined to vote yes here as well, but would never expect that vote to matter.

 

[Rick2583]

I salute your honesty. I'd be inclined to vote yes here as well, but would never expect that vote to matter.

Me too.

 

[blgridesagain]

The Cubs Beckett & Kissinger weren't bad either.

______________________

Yep, they were good...lighter hitters than Trammel/Whitaker and some others...
..but Kess/Beck were good.

A few more:
Russell/Lopes,
Conception/Morgan
Mazeroski/Alley

The above played together maybe half as long as the Trammel/Whitaker combo.

Taking a closer look -
....we may not find a duo who played together longer with better production than
Trammel and Whitaker.
(18 yrs), and they were both very capable of hitting HRs and stealing bases. wow

 

[Mattingly23NY]

As great a DH as Edgar was I still don't think someone who played only 1/2 the game should be in the hall. JMO. I also think Raines deserves a shot. OH! & did I mention that some of the names on that list has to meant as a joke? And yet some dumb bastard will waste a vote on them.

Moose:
18 Years Pitching: 270 Wins-153 Losses / .368- ERA
Post Season: .342- ERA 7 Wins 8 Losses

Now why would anyone vote for Moose to enter the Hallowed Halls? Several others, who I felt should of got in, with a Won-Loss record, have not seen the inside of Cooperstown....

I say NO to Moose, as much as I enjoyed and Liked Him. I'd love to see Moose in the Halls, but I just don't see it, not even with the Veterans Committee... Just saying....!

Now Raines, I felt he should of got in, a long time ago. During his time, Raines was hot, second only to Ricky Henderson it seems, not only in SB's, but Runs....altho', Tim seemed to fall off of the table with the White Sox, and even further with the Yanx. Tho' I was often disappointed Raines, IMO, did not get enough starts, and should of been the permanent LFer.... a .294 B'avg, altho' Raines is 5th All Time on the Stolen Base List. However, I don't count Billy Hamilton, as 4th on the SB list. Hamilton was a true dead ball era player on my own list. Henderson, Brock, Cobb, Raines.

Honestly tho' I doubt Mussina or Raines makes the cut.......I wouldn't squawk if either didn't make it, or if they made it.

I feel tho' for either to make it, the HOF would have to lower the bar of criteria for allowing borderline players into those Hallowed Halls....just saying....!

 

[Rick2583]

Moose:
18 Years Pitching: 270 Wins-153 Losses / .368- ERA
Post Season: .342- ERA 7 Wins 8 Losses

Now why would anyone vote for Moose to enter the Hallowed Halls? Several others, who I felt should of got in, with a Won-Loss record, have not seen the inside of Cooperstown....

I say NO to Moose, as much as I enjoyed and Liked Him. I'd love to see Moose in the Halls, but I just don't see it, not even with the Veterans Committee... Just saying....!

Now Raines, I felt he should of got in, a long time ago. During his time, Raines was hot, second only to Ricky Henderson it seems, not only in SB's, but Runs....altho', Tim seemed to fall off of the table with the White Sox, and even further with the Yanx. Tho' I was often disappointed Raines, IMO, did not get enough starts, and should of been the permanent LFer.... a .294 B'avg, altho' Raines is 5th All Time on the Stolen Base List. However, I don't count Billy Hamilton, as 4th on the SB list. Hamilton was a true dead ball era player on my own list. Henderson, Brock, Cobb, Raines.

Honestly tho' I doubt Mussina or Raines makes the cut.......I wouldn't squawk if either didn't make it, or if they made it.

I feel tho' for either to make it, the HOF would have to lower the bar of criteria for allowing borderline players into those Hallowed Halls....just saying....!

Moose was a very good pitcher & very consistent with 16 winning seasons. But not great. However going 117 games over 500 for his career I'd have to give him a nod for the HOF. 147-82 with the Orioles & 123-71 with the Yankees.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

______________________

Yep, they were good...lighter hitters than Trammel/Whitaker and some others...
..but Kess/Beck were good.

A few more:
Russell/Lopes,
Conception/Morgan
Mazeroski/Alley

The above played together maybe half as long as the Trammel/Whitaker combo.

Taking a closer look -
....we may not find a duo who played together longer with better production than
Trammel and Whitaker.
(18 yrs), and they were both very capable of hitting HRs and stealing bases. wow

Living in the LA region since 1970, the numerous games, I've seen in Chavez Ravine or on TV, gave me a huge disdain for Russell. What I recall more about Russell, than anything, was his oft failure to field cleanly a simple ground ball hit to him. 339 Errors in 17 Seasons. A .960 Fldg. Pctg. anything but good for a SS. Horrible actually. Had a better SS played on those Bums teams, we would of seen a heckuva lot more Double Plays, but had to settle for an anemic hitting, horrible fielding SS. Although Russell is 50th on the list of Double Plays turned, and 56th on the list of SS Errors....

***Keep in mind the higher the number on the list of Errors, the better. #1 would be the SS who made the most errors.

Russell committed less errors than Concepcion, and Trammel. Altho' Trammel is only 6th on the list of Turning Two. Right behind Jeter. He is 112th on the list of errors. Again, keep in mind, the higher the number of player errors, the better, as 1st belongs to Herman Long with 1070 Errors.

Errors as SS:
Trammel 227
Concepcion 311
Jeter 254
Russell 339

Double Plays turned as SS:
Jeter 1408
Trammel 1307
Concepcion 1290
Russell 909

The only Bum I despise more than Russell was Mariano Duncan who made Russell look like a gold glover. Funny and odd, how Duncan began to flourish both with his glove and bat as a Yankee, but stunk up Chavez Ravine so bad, the AQMD had to put out a Poison Air Warning over The Ravine. Proceed with you oxygen mask, as the stench of shit could of killed someone, when Russell was playing. To be honest, there are not many more players on my shit list than Bill "fumble balls" Russell

 

[blgridesagain]

Moose:
18 Years Pitching: 270 Wins-153 Losses / .368- ERA
Post Season: .342- ERA 7 Wins 8 Losses

Now why would anyone vote for Moose to enter the Hallowed Halls? Several others, who I felt should of got in, with a Won-Loss record, have not seen the inside of Cooperstown....

I say NO to Moose, as much as I enjoyed and Liked Him. I'd love to see Moose in the Halls, but I just don't see it, not even with the Veterans Committee... Just saying....!

Now Raines, I felt he should of got in, a long time ago. During his time, Raines was hot, second only to Ricky Henderson it seems, not only in SB's, but Runs....altho', Tim seemed to fall off of the table with the White Sox, and even further with the Yanx. Tho' I was often disappointed Raines, IMO, did not get enough starts, and should of been the permanent LFer.... a .294 B'avg, altho' Raines is 5th All Time on the Stolen Base List. However, I don't count Billy Hamilton, as 4th on the SB list. Hamilton was a true dead ball era player on my own list. Henderson, Brock, Cobb, Raines.

Honestly tho' I doubt Mussina or Raines makes the cut.......I wouldn't squawk if either didn't make it, or if they made it.

I feel tho' for either to make it, the HOF would have to lower the bar of criteria for allowing borderline players into those Hallowed Halls....just saying....!

________________________________________

Agree on Raines - YES
ba .294, h 2605, ops .810, sb 808 (85% success rate)

Aside from his hitting ability,
..he trails only the great Ricky Henderson and Lou Brock in SB amoung modern /integration/live ball era players.

Then Cobb and Billy Hamilton (who played his last game in 1901 ! lol)
Different world/different game.


Disagree with you on Moose...I think he was a "HOF pitcher'.
Take a look at career comparison with Glavine-

Glavine is an obvious "no-brainer" HOF pitcher, and although Moose isn't as obvious/easy choice as Glavine, he is close enough (imo) to be a HOFer.

Keep in mind Moose pitched his ENTIRE career in a DH league.

Glavine: W 305/ L 203 (102 g over .500)
Moose: W 270/ L 153 (117g over .500)

Glavine: 3.54 era
Moose: 3.63

Glavine: 682 gs/ 4413 ip / 56 cg / 25 sh-o/ 1.31 whip ( 2607 k )
Moose: 536 gs/ 3563 ip / 57 cg / 23 sh-o/ 1.19 whip ( 2813 k )

 

[Mattingly23NY]

BTW- Russell averaged 18 errors per season, in 17 years as a SS, for a total of 339 Errors, for an average of 19.9 Errors each year. How fkn stellar is that POS....

the only thing Russell did worse than shoddily play SS, was when he Managed. He stunk to high heaven. I never felt Russell had the moxy of a Player, let alone a Mgr.


Of his coaching career: Courtesy of Wikipedia-
Disclaimer: Read no further of the text below, unless you are a die hard Bums fan or bleed Dodger Blue. Hmmm, that's what I thought, not one Bums fan in attendance, that's the way it should be in Yankee Town...


Russell became a coach on manager Tommy Lasorda's staff in 1987. In 1992–93, he piloted the Dodgers' AAA farm club, the Albuquerque Dukes of the Pacific Coast League, but posted losing records each season. He then rejoined Lasorda and the Los Angeles coaching staff in 1994 and was considered by many the heir apparent to Lasorda's job. In June 1996, the 68-year-old skipper suffered a mild heart attack and Russell was named acting manager. Although Lasorda's health recovered, the Dodger front office decided to make Russell's appointment permanent on July 29, thus making him only the third person to manage the Dodgers in 43 years. Russell finished the 1996 season, compiling a record of 49-37 and bringing the Dodgers home in second place, earning the NL wild card spot in the playoffs before being swept in three games by the Atlanta Braves in the Division Series. The following year, he directed the Dodgers to an 88-74 mark and another runner-up finish in the NL West. However, when the 1998 club stumbled to a 36–38 start – and with the News Corporation poised to buy the team - Russell was fired on June 21 along with general manager Fred Claire in a general housecleaning, ending a 30-year association with the team. His final managing record was 173–149 (.537).

His departure from the Dodgers followed the new ownership's decision to trade Mike Piazza along with third baseman Todd Zeile to the Florida Marlins. Neither Russell nor Claire knew about the trade. Claire, who like Russell had been with the Dodgers in various capacities since 1969, discussed his and Russell's ouster in his book My 30 Years in Dodger Blue.

Russell went on to coach for the Tampa Bay Devil Rays and managed farm teams of both Tampa Bay and the San Francisco Giants, the Dodgers' archrival. He currently works for Major League Baseball’s umpiring division.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

________________________________________

Agree on Raines - YES
ba .294, h 2605, ops .810, sb 808 (85% success rate)
me.
I do NOT compare dead ball era players with players from "today"- Including
He trails only the great Ricky Henderson and Lou Brock in SB amoung modern /integration/live ball era.
Billy Hamilton played his last game in 1901 !--> Different world/different ga

ditto
ditto and
ditto

Raines deserves to be let in. His days in Montreal were astounding IMO. Raines and Dawson. Wallach and Galarraga, Gary Carter, Al Oliver, Graig Nettles (1988), and a very young Terry Francona (journeyman utility Outfielder.

Jeff Reardon, Pete Rose believe it or not, only at 43 years of age, in 1984, Dennis Martinez- (El Presidente).

1989 Larry Walker (22 yrs old), Randy Johnson, John Candaleria, Mark Langston, Delino DeShields, Marquis Grissom, Oil Can Boyd.

As one can see, The Expos were plaqued more with a lack of solid Pitching. It wasn't until 89 and on, when the Expos would realize they needed Pitching. The GM was Dave Dombrowski. Not sure if one should say, he had an eye for talent, or he couldn't figure out he had no pitching to speak of.....

Well at least Dombrowski has an eye for Pitching in Detroit these days, but homegrown talent is no longer his trademark as obtaining Free Agents are....just my 2 cents. 3 more cents could of bought you a Coca-Cola when I was a kid.
Yep, with some Coke's going for $1.50 in some vendor machines, ie, the World is Going to Hell, in a Handbasket...LOL...

 

[Hammerojustice]

As great a DH as Edgar was I still don't think someone who played only 1/2 the game should be in the hall. JMO. I also think Raines deserves a shot. OH! & did I mention that some of the names on that list has to meant as a joke? And yet some dumb bastard will waste a vote on them.

AL pitchers only play half the gave once every 5 get they get in.......

Again, I feel Edgar should be in...

 

[totus44]

Love Edgar, dont like the precedent....that opens a door for big sloppy.

 

[Rick2583]

Love Edgar, dont like the precedent....that opens a door for big sloppy.

I'm still hoping they remember Ortiz being one of the names being connected to PEDs when his time comes up.

BTW: Did you see where Sheffield is up for the HOF & says, "I had someone put the cream on my bad knee & didn't know it was a banned substance" Do you believe him? In his defense I have to say that he never had that big dominating year that all the others had. Unfortunately he shared the same trainer (Anderson) as Bonds. So, guilty by association?