Who's our 4th best player?

[Denny Crane]

Career high 13.6 PER... yea, he's really good.

10 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 4.4 APG in 28 minutes. He also shot .456 and .827 FT. His DRtg was a fine 104. That PER and those stats are from the year before we signed him.

4.9/4.4 for a backup who's not a PG are extremely good.

 

[e_blazer]

So, you're saying our roster is a mirror image of the Western Conference?

LOL. Not exactly my point. I'm saying that having a bunch of guys at 4-8 who are pretty damned good, and who may in any given game be the next best player after our top 3, may be more important to team success than having a clearly defined 4th best guy and then a bunch of stiffs.

 

[BrianFromWA]

LOL. Not exactly my point. I'm saying that having a bunch of guys at 4-8 who are pretty damned good, and who may in any given game be the next best player after our top 3, may be more important to team success than having a clearly defined 4th best guy and then a bunch of stiffs.

 

[blue9]

10 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 4.4 APG in 28 minutes. He also shot .456 and .827 FT. His DRtg was a fine 104. That PER and those stats are from the year before we signed him.

4.9/4.4 for a backup who's not a PG are extremely good.

Interesting that Ed, Aminu, and Turner all had "career" years (I use that term loosely) the year before we signed them, and then regressed...

 

[Denny Crane]

Interesting that Ed, Aminu, and Turner all had "career" years (I use that term loosely) the year before we signed them, and then regressed...

Davis was outstanding for us in reduced minutes his first season. Aminu's minutes jumped from 1366 to 2341 when he joined the Blazers. His PER was above his career PER that season. He was dinged up last season, but I think he's been a terrific acquisition.

If it were up to me, ET would have been the starter at SF from day 1 with us.

I don't think he's been misused, but rather he's been forced to sub for lack of anyone else. On a 2nd unit that wasn't very good (as a unit/together). We're probably in worse shape this season on the 2nd unit because we don't have Crabbe.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The fact that y'alls are saying Harkless is both a credit and a slam to Olshey.
1) A credit, because like RoLo, Plumlee and now Nurk, he has proven he can turn another team's castoff into a valuable contributor
2) a slam, because the guy he gave a SEVENTEEN MILLION A YEAR contract to is easily being beaten out by a player the other team didn't want

 

[Chris Craig]

Nurk, he's THAT good

Hes so good hes our 3rd amd 4th best player? Damn

 

[Chris Craig]

Harkless for now. Swanigan will be very soon

 

[illmatic99]

2) a slam, because the guy he gave a SEVENTEEN MILLION A YEAR contract to is easily being beaten out by a player the other team didn't want

Contracts given out last summer stick out like a sore thumb.

MEM: Parsons- 23 mil, 2nd highest
WAS: Mahimi- 17 mil, 4th highest
ORL: Biyombo- 17 mil, tied for highest
HOU: Anderson- 20 mil, 3rd highest
BRK: Crabbe- 19 mil, highest
BRK: Mozgov- 15 mil, 2nd highest
LAL: Deng- 17 mil, 2nd highest
NYK: Noah- 17 mil, 2nd highest
These guys made out like bandits.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I think Collins is better than Swanigan right now but the hype has been about Caleb.

Caleb plays with a huge motor and at a position where he might start. Zach looks great: mobile, agile, instinctive playmaking. I think Caleb is getting hype because he could crack the starting lineup which is an exciting Cinderella story.

Zach is awesome too though. It’s just a great all round draft.

 

[chzbrgr]

Davis was outstanding for us in reduced minutes his first season. Aminu's minutes jumped from 1366 to 2341 when he joined the Blazers. His PER was above his career PER that season. He was dinged up last season, but I think he's been a terrific acquisition.

If it were up to me, ET would have been the starter at SF from day 1 with us.

I don't think he's been misused, but rather he's been forced to sub for lack of anyone else. On a 2nd unit that wasn't very good (as a unit/together). We're probably in worse shape this season on the 2nd unit because we don't have Crabbe.

uhhhh.... what...? we actually have competent forward play now! and with Morrow=Crabbe basically, you think we got worse? I have a really hard time believing that. For one, because our rookies look so much better than all the front court players that started the year with us last year. Better than any combination of Plumlee, Davis, Lenoard, Vonleh. I know you LOVE Crabbe like a lot, but come on now, he's not even a 6MOTY candidate. He doesnt have that much of an effect on that second unit.

 

[Natebishop3]

Contracts given out last summer stick out like a sore thumb.

MEM: Parsons- 23 mil, 2nd highest
WAS: Mahimi- 17 mil, 4th highest
ORL: Biyombo- 17 mil, tied for highest
HOU: Anderson- 20 mil, 3rd highest
BRK: Crabbe- 19 mil, highest
BRK: Mozgov- 15 mil, 2nd highest
LAL: Deng- 17 mil, 2nd highest
NYK: Noah- 17 mil, 2nd highest
These guys made out like bandits.

And out of that list, I would rather have Turner over all of those scrubs.

 

[blue9]

And out of that list, I would rather have Turner over all of those scrubs.

Agreed. But I'd rather not have him, either.

 

[Natebishop3]

Agreed. But I'd rather not have him, either.

Well, unfortunately we had cap space during one of the worst summers to have cap space.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Bottom line ET is on the team and his contract is now irrelevant in my mind for most of the threads we have going. This summer maybe a different discussion since luxury tax is more of a factor. But for now I think we need to base our comments on his actual play compared to who else is on the team. And based on that he helps alot.

Last game he had 5 turnovers and that is too many because he forced 2-3 passes that contributed to those numbers. (one travel call was a foul IMO so he really only had 4 TOs in my mind)

But he also had 8 assists in the first 3 quarters and was 3-6 from the field. And he actually plays solid D. I would start Harkless at SF but if you take ET's contract out of most of your minds, he would be a fan favorite for many since he has skills and almost always plays hard. And personally right now that is all I care about.

In the off season that could change.

 

[Strenuus]

I think Collins is better than Swanigan right now but the hype has been about Caleb.

Shit. I'm just happy we have both.

 

[blue9]

Bottom line ET is on the team and his contract is now irrelevant in my mind for most of the threads we have going. This summer maybe a different discussion since luxury tax is more of a factor. But for now I think we need to base our comments on his actual play compared to who else is on the team. And based on that he helps alot.

Last game he had 5 turnovers and that is too many because he forced 2-3 passes that contributed to those numbers. (one travel call was a foul IMO so he really only had 4 TOs in my mind)

But he also had 8 assists in the first 3 quarters and was 3-6 from the field. And he actually plays solid D. I would start Harkless at SF but if you take ET's contract out of most of your minds, he would be a fan favorite for many since he has skills and almost always plays hard. And personally right now that is all I care about.

In the off season that could change.

Eh, I hate his game and think that he belongs in the Little League (aka Eastern Conference). Doesn't matter what he makes, he just isn't a Western Conference player from what I've seen. He's like a good version of Aminu...and that still isn't something I really want on my team.
That said, I hope he plays off the bench and makes the second unit work well.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Eh, I hate his game and think that he belongs in the Little League (aka Eastern Conference). Doesn't matter what he makes, he just isn't a Western Conference player from what I've seen. He's like a good version of Aminu...and that still isn't something I really want on my team.
That said, I hope he plays off the bench and makes the second unit work well.

Keep in mind he is the only player on the team over 6'3 who can dribble and pass while being covered. And the only guard on the team who can come close to covering big guards like Klay, Butler and Harden. He is arguably the 4th most valuable player on the team. (Until the rookies get better)

 

[42N8Bounce]

Just for fun, here's a look at last year's roster. I used PER as a baseline, but sorted it by percentage of minutes played. For example, a player like Napier had a 13.6 PER, but only played 412 minutes in 53 games. Whereas Harkless had a 13.1 PER but played 2223 minutes in 77 games. Harkless made a larger contribution than Napier.



No surprise at the top 3. Harkless comes in 4th, followed by Aminu and Turner. No surprise at the bottom of the pile.

I give a little extra credit to Aminu since PER doesn't capture the defensive contribution very well. Even considering that, I think Harkless beats him out.

Where do Swanigan and Collins fit into this list? We should be finding out soon!

 

[Denny Crane]

uhhhh.... what...? we actually have competent forward play now! and with Morrow=Crabbe basically, you think we got worse? I have a really hard time believing that. For one, because our rookies look so much better than all the front court players that started the year with us last year. Better than any combination of Plumlee, Davis, Lenoard, Vonleh. I know you LOVE Crabbe like a lot, but come on now, he's not even a 6MOTY candidate. He doesnt have that much of an effect on that second unit.

Competent? Wow. That's great!

My view here has nothing to do with Crabbe.

We were in the hunt for Carmelo Anthony and maybe Paul George, no?

Wee bit of a drop off from those guys.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Gotta say that Evan Turner has been good for the team this pre-season (probably one of the best +/- wise). Still drives me crazy watching him - flashbacks to the days of Jarrett Jack.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Gotta say that Evan Turner has been good for the team this pre-season (probably one of the best +/- wise). Still drives me crazy watching him - flashbacks to the days of Jarrett Jack.

Yeah but as it turned out we probably should have should kept Jack too. He had some good years after Portland. Funny how he was traded for Bayless.........twice.

 

[chzbrgr]

Competent? Wow. That's great!

My view here has nothing to do with Crabbe.

We were in the hunt for Carmelo Anthony and maybe Paul George, no?

Wee bit of a drop off from those guys.

Ok.... yeah.... our rookies arent paul george I'm cool with that.

You gotta see that the vast chasm between our forward play last year and competency was so large you could fit 20 wins in it! no? The fact that our rookies look competent at this point should give you a good deal of optimism for their future and the teams success, but I guess since they arent as good as paul george, you think we are going to get worse? Is that the pessimistic bs you're trying to sell these days Denny?

Good luck with that.

PS if your point wasnt that the loss of Crabbe was going to make our bench worse, maybe dont use him as your example for why the bench will struggle.

 

[Denny Crane]

Ok.... yeah.... our rookies arent paul george I'm cool with that.

You gotta see that the vast chasm between our forward play last year and competency was so large you could fit 20 wins in it! no? The fact that our rookies look competent at this point should give you a good deal of optimism for their future and the teams success, but I guess since they arent as good as paul george, you think we are going to get worse? Is that the pessimistic bs you're trying to sell these days Denny?

Good luck with that.

PS if your point wasnt that the loss of Crabbe was going to make our bench worse, maybe dont use him as your example for why the bench will struggle.

We won fewer games last year than the year before and looked really bad in the playoffs (yeah, injury to Nurk, but still). That speaks plenty to "competency" and "forward play."

We addressed some of the bigs depth issues, and let's hope we can rely on rookies to help us make playoffs again. I don't think we got better at SF, but actually worse because we're one less player there and one who did earn ~30 MPG.

I'm not pessimistic about the team's chances. Just looking at ways to improve them.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

We won fewer games last year than the year before and looked really bad in the playoffs (yeah, injury to Nurk, but still). That speaks plenty to "competency" and "forward play."

We addressed some of the bigs depth issues, and let's hope we can rely on rookies to help us make playoffs again. I don't think we got better at SF, but actually worse because we're one less player there and one who did earn ~30 MPG.

I'm not pessimistic about the team's chances. Just looking at ways to improve them.

Nurk, Swanigan, Ed Davis - our rebounding is WAY, WAY, WAY better than last year, and rebounding is what every winning team has to have.

 

[Pinwheel1]

We won fewer games last year than the year before and looked really bad in the playoffs (yeah, injury to Nurk, but still). That speaks plenty to "competency" and "forward play."

You are dismissing the Nurk injury too much. We got better....and then he got hurt. So if he gets hurt again....yes we are fucked and the season becomes another development year for our rookies.

As for the playoffs.......the Warriors won 15 straight in the playoffs. Everyone looked bad against them including Cleveland who actually won a game. I really do not see how it plays into any equation for this particular season.

 

[Sinobas]

I voted for Collins, but Harkless is close. What a coup by Olshey to first get him for nothing, then retain him for just 10 mil per year. I don't know how much Anthony would have helped this team over Harkless. Hark is better defensively, and is great at playing off our other stars, diving to the hoop, getting put backs, and his 3pt shot isn't bad.

CJ, Dame and Anthony may have fought too much over shots. Both CJ and Damian already need to tone down some of the stuff they throw up.

 

[Denny Crane]

You are dismissing the Nurk injury too much. We got better....and then he got hurt. So if he gets hurt again....yes we are fucked and the season becomes another development year for our rookies.

As for the playoffs.......the Warriors won 15 straight in the playoffs. Everyone looked bad against them including Cleveland who actually won a game. I really do not see how it plays into any equation for this particular season.

What was our record pre Nurk?

Worse than the year before? (answer: yes)

 

[stampedehero]

Have not seen Collins and Swanigan for a real season. Must discount them. After I saw ET play in the series against the G State, he really sucked and I would put him in the Ryan Leaf category. He is an expensive loser.

 

[kjironman1]

ET's skills should fit really well with Nurkic in the lineup. He very well could become the distributor and playmaker we need, making him the 4th best player...possibly. I know it's a stretch. But I don't know if we HAVE to have a legitimate 4th best.

Deeper is better. Say's Mrs HCP.

Dammit! Sorry HCP, I don't have enough posts to make that comment.

You don't have enough posts to post a picture with that comment on it. You CAN post the comment. But You CANNOT start a thread about it. Get this straight quick and things will be much easier for you....