Who's Our Backup Center......Joel Freeland

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
Sinobas said:
I've been saying this for quite awhile. Meyers Leonard is not a center. They need to stop trying to force him to be a defensive presence inside. This is like trying to force Channing Frye to play center. Meyers is a 7-1 stretch 4. He might be a better backup 4 than Thomas Robinson if the let him compete for that position.
Click to expand...

Not sure I am following your logic. You say he is a stretch 4, then you say he might be a better power forward than Robinson.....given the chance. So I guess you are saying you
prefer a stretch 4 who has no defensive ability to be our back up 4. Personally I would not want that.
 
This imo wont last long. I think by late November Leonard will be the clear cut back-up. However, if he isn't... It's seriously time to start trying to shop him.

I wonder if we could acquire Spencer Hawes if we dangled Leonard and someone else in front of the 76ers. He would be a great backup to Lopez.
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
This imo wont last long. I think by late November Leonard will be the clear cut back-up. However, if he isn't... It's seriously time to start trying to shop him.
Click to expand...

Maybe by late November next year, but not this year. I'm not sure how, in as little as a month, Leonard is going to show the improvements needed to get minutes, that he didn't show in the time that passed since the start of training camp. It's not like Freeland and Leonard were neck and neck, and Leonards game was progressing through the pre-season. Or that he was coming off an injury and still needed time to get his legs under him.

And it's not like Freeland was a world beater too. He was solid, but if Leonard can't beat Freeland as the backup now, it's not like a month will magically transform him into being the clear cut backup.

It's a weeeee bit soon to be already shopping him if he's not producing in the first month of his second year in the league. He was a project out of college, anyone expecting him to already be a decent pro after basically 1 year of college ball (he wasn't a regular rotation player, iirc, in his freshman year) is setting him up for failure.

He needs at least this year to work on defense. That should be his #1-10 goals this year.
 
Last edited:
Pinwheel1 said:
Not sure I am following your logic. You say he is a stretch 4, then you say he might be a better power forward than Robinson.....given the chance. So I guess you are saying you
prefer a stretch 4 who has no defensive ability to be our back up 4. Personally I would not want that.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes2:
The defensive responsibilities of a center and PF are a lot different. You won't see Thomas Robinson blocking shots either. But PFs who can hit a lot of jumpshots do have value, it's a tough thing to defend.
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
This imo wont last long. I think by late November Leonard will be the clear cut back-up. However, if he isn't... It's seriously time to start trying to shop him.

I wonder if we could acquire Spencer Hawes if we dangled Leonard and someone else in front of the 76ers. He would be a great backup to Lopez.
Click to expand...

As much shit as I give Leonard in this forum, I'm only hoping he gets it. He has the physique to be a quality center. He just needs direction. I've read in here that we desperately need a big man coach. I 100% agree. I don't think Leonard refuses to learn how to be a center. I think he just doesn't have the direction.

Once Leonard develops blocking out, setting good picks, rebounding and a couple low post moves; he will be a force to be reckon with.
 
While I don't think this is much ado about nothing, let's remember that the only thing that happened is that he was demoted out of the rotation, because another player is playing better than he was. There's nothing sinister or damaging about that. It's not like we released him or traded him for nothing. It's not like he can't make his way back. Heck, I would love it if Freeland played so dang well that we demoted Lopez. I'd love Robinson to play so well that we demote LMA. Having talented players that play well and help you win is the name of the game.
 
BrianFromWA said:
While I don't think this is much ado about nothing, let's remember that the only thing that happened is that he was demoted out of the rotation, because another player is playing better than he was. There's nothing sinister or damaging about that. It's not like we released him or traded him for nothing. It's not like he can't make his way back. Heck, I would love it if Freeland played so dang well that we demoted Lopez. I'd love Robinson to play so well that we demote LMA. Having talented players that play well and help you win is the name of the game.
Click to expand...

Good points Brian. I think it's important for Leonard to know that this only means that he just needs to work on what centers need to work on.

It was really disappointing for me when I learned he was really working on his three point shot. Although having range is nice, is it really as important than boxing out, rebounding and defending the paint?
 
Here's my take:
Leonard: Helps the team's offense a bit, Destroys the team defense.
Freeland: Stays out of the way on offense, Doesn't hurt the team defense too much.

Not a tough decision by the coach based on playing ability and team needs. However, it generally doesn't help a coach's career to leave their lottery picks out of the rotation, where it's the right thing or not. It's a big positive about our organization that this type of thing can happen.
 
While I agree with that in general, Leonard isn't Stotts' guy. He was drafted 6 weeks before Stotts was hired.

I think NBA teams are becoming quicker on the trigger with their first-round picks, unless they're definitely projects and were meant to be so. I mean, just look at the 2012 draft. Aside from Leonard, we've already seen teams give up on #5 (Robinson), #12/#18 (Lamb and T.Jones, but to be fair that was for Harden), #13 (Marshall), #16 (White), #22 (Melo),#30 (Ezeli) for nothing or close to it. (I'm sure I'm missing someone here)
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Here's my take:
Leonard: Helps the team's offense a bit, Destroys the team defense.
Freeland: Stays out of the way on offense, Doesn't hurt the team defense too much.

Not a tough decision by the coach based on playing ability and team needs. However, it generally doesn't help a coach's career to leave their lottery picks out of the rotation, where it's the right thing or not. It's a big positive about our organization that this type of thing can happen .
Click to expand...

It's a big NEGATIVE about our organization that this type of thing can happen, and it's why we have sucked for the last decade. It's exactly what eventually got Nate fired. You can't develop a player in practice and D league stints.

Development and experience happen on the court playing against superior players in games that matter.
 
MARIS61 said:
It's a big NEGATIVE about our organization that this type of thing can happen, and it's why we have sucked for the last decade. It's exactly what eventually got Nate fired. You can't develop a player in practice and D league stints.

Development and experience happen on the court playing against superior players in games that matter.
Click to expand...

I completely disagree. I also think Leonard will have plenty of chances to prove he's worthy of playing time. This was completely different than Nate, since Nate would not play a rookie, even if he was better than the starter. In this case, Leonard is clearly not the best back-up.
 
magnifier661 said:
It was really disappointing for me when I learned he was really working on his three point shot. Although having range is nice, is it really as important than boxing out, rebounding and defending the paint?
Click to expand...

Nearly all dominant centers have an unstoppable offensive trait, whether it's an outside jumper (Duncan), a sky-hook (Kareem), the ability to direct a passing scheme from the top of the key (Walton) or referees who allow him to knock defenders down with his big fat butt without calling a foul (Shaq).

Leonard's shooting and passing skills are already better than most starting centers currently in the league. And he can do it all on the run, which is nearly unheard of for a guy his size. If Stotts and his staff can't teach him enough basic footwork and holding techniques to lift his defense above a scrub like Freeland then we need to get a new coach right now.
 
MARIS61 said:
It's a big NEGATIVE about our organization that this type of thing can happen, and it's why we have sucked for the last decade. It's exactly what eventually got Nate fired. You can't develop a player in practice and D league stints.

Development and experience happen on the court playing against superior players in games that matter.
Click to expand...

Poor draft choices and injuries had a lot more to do with this than your weird tin foil thinking.
 
This 'working on the three point shot' thing is really tired and overblown. There are 24 hours in a day. A human can only lift weights for so long before it becomes detrimental. A ball player can only work on low post skills and defensive drills for so long, before the work out is done. There should be plenty of time left over in the day for a guy to work on just shooting the ball, including shooting threes in case it happens to come up in a game, or even just for fun. I don't see what all the brew-ha-ha is about. Working on Center skills and working on shooting skills are not mutually exclusive. I remember players routinely having half court shooting contests after practice. Did that distract or detract from their games?

Meyers 'sucks' at playing center in the NBA, in some people's opinion, because he isn't good enough 'yet' and he needs a lot of work on a lot of facets of the game over the next two years. Working on shooting the ball isn't the reason he 'sucks' as an NBA center, and I doubt it is a significant distraction from what is undoubtedly his primary focus of learning how to play the center position.
 
BBert said:
This 'working on the three point shot' thing is really tired and overblown. There are 24 hours in a day. A human can only lift weights for so long before it becomes detrimental. A ball player can only work on low post skills and defensive drills for so long, before the work out is done. There should be plenty of time left over in the day for a guy to work on just shooting the ball, including shooting threes in case it happens to come up in a game, or even just for fun. I don't see what all the brew-ha-ha is about. Working on Center skills and working on shooting skills are not mutually exclusive. I remember players routinely having half court shooting contests after practice. Did that distract or detract from their games?

Meyers 'sucks' at playing center in the NBA, in some people's opinion, because he isn't good enough 'yet' and he needs a lot of work on a lot of facets of the game over the next two years. Working on shooting the ball isn't the reason he 'sucks' as an NBA center, and I doubt it is a significant distraction from what is undoubtedly his primary focus of learning how to play the center position.
Click to expand...

Tiresome? How about looking at the other angle? The only reports on "his workout" was lifting weights and three point shooting. If his "three point shooting" workout was like 5% of his time, then it probably would be worth reporting. The fact that this was someone Leonard specified what he was working on was disturbing. There wasn't "I'm working on defense and floaters" like Lillard professed this summer.
 
BBert said:
This 'working on the three point shot' thing is really tired and overblown. There are 24 hours in a day. A human can only lift weights for so long before it becomes detrimental. A ball player can only work on low post skills and defensive drills for so long, before the work out is done. There should be plenty of time left over in the day for a guy to work on just shooting the ball, including shooting threes in case it happens to come up in a game, or even just for fun. I don't see what all the brew-ha-ha is about. Working on Center skills and working on shooting skills are not mutually exclusive. I remember players routinely having half court shooting contests after practice. Did that distract or detract from their games?

Meyers 'sucks' at playing center in the NBA, in some people's opinion, because he isn't good enough 'yet' and he needs a lot of work on a lot of facets of the game over the next two years. Working on shooting the ball isn't the reason he 'sucks' as an NBA center, and I doubt it is a significant distraction from what is undoubtedly his primary focus of learning how to play the center position.
Click to expand...

I think the issue is, at least for me, he has a LOT of work to do on his game. Both offensively and defensively. rebounding, screening, footwork, boxing out, blocking shots, passing, where to be during plays, his mid range game, his inside game, pump fakes, bank shots and taking contact while playing both offense AND defense.

And if he's done working on all those, sure, he can work on his 3 point game.
 
If you are hired to be a trumpet player and you practice the trumpet every day but your heart is in playing the guitar and you spend lots of time practicing guitar in your "off time", you're probably not going to become very good at the trumpet - especially if you don't have much of an aptitude for the trumpet in the first place, even if you can hit a double-C.

On the other hand if you're not very good at the trumpet but it becomes clear that you will lose your livelihood if you don't improve and you try really, really hard to improve and you have some success, then you should probably play in front of the other guy.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
If you are hired to be a trumpet player and you practice the trumpet every day but your heart is in playing the guitar and you spend lots of time practicing guitar in your "off time", you're probably not going to become very good at the trumpet - especially if you don't have much of an aptitude for the trumpet in the first place, even if you can hit a double-C.

On the other hand if you're not very good at the trumpet but it becomes clear that you will lose your livelihood if you don't improve and you try really, really hard to improve and you have some success, then you should probably play in front of the other guy.
Click to expand...

Wow that made a lot of sense!
 
Maybe I'm over-reacting and maybe it just really isn't his fault but does this reflect on coach Kim at all?
 
Leonard's problem is court awareness, caused by lack of eyeball rotation, caused by necessity to wear contacts, caused by vanity of all players since Kurt Rambis.
 
Trail Blazers: Joel Freeland 'excited' about rotation spot, more relaxed in second season

How's it feel?
I'm really excited. I'm happy that all the work I did in the summer paid off, but it's not somewhere I can just stop. I've got to keep working. I've got a base, I've got a foundation now and I've got to keep working on that, improve on that and build on that.

What's the big difference for you between last year and this year?
It's just defense. I'm buying into what we want to do defensively, I'm working on what we want to do defensively and it's just helping me out all over on the floor. I'm a lot more aware of things, the positions I'm supposed to be in. I've still got to improve on my offensive side of the game, obviously, but I think that will come.

Is it a mindset change to go from being an offensive player in Europe to more of a defensive player in the NBA?
Yeah. I want to stay in this league. If I want to go back to Europe and shoot all the shots I can, the opportunity is there for me. But I want to stay in this league and players that want to stay in this league have to make adjustments. That's the adjustment I had to make -- you have to take your ego out of it and just be like "what's my role going to be in this league and on this team?" My role in this league and on this team is to run the floor, set good screens, rebound the ball, play great defense, challenge balls at the rim.

A lot of talk heading into camp and in camp was team defense. For you what's the difference between individual defense and team defense?
The reason we've had so much success (during the preseason) is purely because of the defense we've been playing as a team. We're buying into what each other can do, we're helping each other out on rotations, we're protecting the rim a lot better than what we were. It's knowing where people are going to be, knowing what people's roles are and knowing how you can help.

Where have you made the biggest jump physically from last season?
I worked a lot in the summer on my legs. Knowing that in the position I'm going to be in -- running the floor, banging with guys -- I really need to have a strong core and a strong base. That's something I worked quite a lot on this summer but it's still something I really need to improve on as well, put a little more weight on to be able to hold my own down there.

You feel like physically your body has caught up to the NBA season?
I think so now. It took me a while. I know my body a lot better now, learning all through last year, all through this summer and going into this year. I know what I need to do to be prepared for each game and each practice.

How has playing with Robin Lopez helped you?
It's been great. It puts you in real live game situations, all the time, every practice. It's been great to have someone like that, who's so big, so long. He intimidates every shot that you try and shoot. It's big.
He's just a huge body. You put him in the middle of the paint and it's tough to score on him; he just takes up so much space, he challenges balls at the rim. He might not block a lot of shots, but he changes a lot of shots and that's just as important.
Click to expand...
 
Whatever these guys learned in the summer, helped Freeland and regressed Leonard. By the end of Summer League I was already posting that Leonard had gotten worse since the regular season.

Freeland's many years of pro experience allowed him to decipher the coaches' message. We forget how experienced he is. That's why he makes $3 million per year.
 
Now everyone has to read 3 full pages to find out who you're talking to.

3 pages clicked times 50 readers = millions for Denny
 
It was close enough to blow the toupee off that bald head of yours!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

SlyPokerDog
Batum to play against LA, Freeland training camp MVP
Replies
0
Views
187
SlyPokerDog
SlyPokerDog
Pinwheel1
Interesting Tidbits from the Oregonian
Replies
9
Views
827
glazeduck
G
ABM
Holy Trinity! (Camby)
Replies
19
Views
2K
Mediocre Man
Mediocre Man
Sinobas
Olshey not too sure about Freeland
2
Replies
43
Views
2K
BoBoBREWSKI
BoBoBREWSKI
KingSpeed
Batum has a concussion, out for next game
Replies
14
Views
695
The_Lillard_King
T

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top