Who's the blazer goat Dame, Drexler or Walton ??

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tlongII said:
Winning a title is the ultimate achievement in sports. It trumps everything else.
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Of course, it’s the ultimate goal of every team, but it’s a team achievement that’s dependent on having good teammates and having enough grit, and some luck, to beat other good teams. Greatest player, IMO, is about individual talent and intangibles rather than team achievements.
 
Dame scoring 61 against the Warriors G League team cannot even compare to Walton bringing the city a championship... I could care less about individual statistics... Dame has not won anything yet... even Drexler at at least made it to finals.
 
Right now, I'd say that it's Walton for peak and still Drexler for (Portland) career. Lillard has been excellent, and his modern three-point attack has Drexler for scoring efficiency, though Drexler put up similar per-36 scoring with a lower usage rate. He also has an edge in Assist Rate, but Drexler has a larger relative edge in Rebound Rate. The thing that puts Drexler over the top right now for me is that he was a better defender. He wasn't an all-world defender or anything, but he was solid while Lillard has been below average most of his career.

Drexler has big edges in cumulative value stats, obviously, as he's played more (Portland) seasons than Lillard has. It'll be interesting to revisit this when Lillard has played as many seasons for Portland as Drexler did.
 
Greatness to me doesn't have to do with time served. In my lifetime, Bo Jackson is the greatest athlete I've ever seen. Was it short lived? Absolutely. Was his career cut short by injury so he doesn't have the career numbers? Certainly.

But there were things he could do on both a football field and a baseball field that no one did....maybe ever. The speed, the power, the natural ability all equaled greatness. Walton was one of the greatest centers to ever play and Clyde was #2 to the Goat during his career. Dame, as much as I and others like/love/adore him, is nowhere near that level in the conversation historically.

I get adding in the community, the longevity, and several other factors that aren't to be dismissed in any way....and if that is what it take to get Dame to 'greatest' Blazers, that is fine for those who embrace that and can certainly understand where anyone who believes that is coming from.

Just not at the level of Walton or Drexler for me.
 
When Lenny Wilkins was fired he stated “If Bill Walton is healthy next year they will win a championship”.
Walton made players around him so much better!
 
If you include leadership as a metric, then Dame hands down. If you just look at the talent of the player, then Walton.
 
Reep said:
If you include leadership as a metric, then Dame hands down. If you just look at the talent of the player, then Walton.
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Walton was the consummate leader on the court always directing.
 
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It has to be Dame.
Love me some Bill Walton.
Clyde, for all his acrobatic and statistical greatness, was more about himself.
The championship, because there is only one, wields too much power in this topic.
Someday, it's entirely possible that a bunch of no names playing team ball could bring a title here...then what? Their star player averages 13 & 7...worthy then of GOAT ranking?
Damian Lillard is the best I've ever seen, and like a couple others in here, I have seen them all since day one in 1970.
 
Walton was great in all aspects of the game.
Outlet passing
Assists
Block shots
Rebounding
Scoring when needed
Fantastic Defender
 
Hoopguru said:
Walton was great in all aspects of the game.
Outlet passing
Assists
Block shots
Rebounding
Scoring when needed
Fantastic Defender
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Greatest single season as a Blazer: Bill Walton, no doubt.

Greatest athlete over his career as a Blazer: Clyde Drexler.

Greatest player in terms of individual impact over his career as a Blazer and given the quality of his team: Damian Lillard

Personally, I discount Bill because of the short span as a Blazer and the fact that he was so quick to turn his back on his team and the city. Clyde was fantastic, but I think Dame gets the nod over him simply because of how fantastic he is in the community and in leading the team.
 
TBpup said:
The 'game wasn't as skilled during Walton and Drexler's time' I can understand in terms of style, rules, and especially compared to today's game, ball handling. But Walton went up against some guy named Dr. J who was incredibly skilled/talented, and Drexler's career was matched against the Greatest of All time in Jordan.
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I’ll lean towards Lillard as our GOAT but it’s next to impossible to truly compare generations. Back when Portland came into the league conditions were “primitive” by today’s standards. Those guys didn’t have the trainers or training facilities they do now. They traveled by commercial airlines (on commercial airline schedules). They played back to backs almost constantly, often playing 3 games in a row, or 3 in four days. Proportionately they weren’t paid anywhere near what today’s players are, and many had to work in the off season to make ends meet (so off season training was too often problematic). AAU and “All Star” youth basketball systems (and rackets) existed on a far, far smaller scale, so most of those guys grew up playing mostly HS and college ball with little in between (other than the playgrounds). Today’s pro basketball player is a completely different animal than those of other generations. So I would think that it would be more accurate to call Walton, Drexler and Lillard each the greatest Trailblazer of their generation.

But if the generational playing field was level (and it isn’t) I’d go with Dame....
 
Wade Garrett said:
Someday, it's entirely possible that a bunch of no names playing team ball could bring a title here...then what? Their star player averages 13 & 7...worthy then of GOAT ranking?
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But we're not talking about some 13 & 7 ham-and-egger. We're talking about:
  • a hall-of famer
  • all-star
  • rebounding leader
  • blocks leader
  • all-defensive team
  • all-NBA team
  • finals MVP
  • league MVP
People using Dave Twardzik as a reference point are being intentionally disingenuous.

It's fine if people are more impressed by the duration of Dame's greatness than the much higher peak of Walton's--there's a valid argument either way. But let's not pretend that anyone's saying that the title is the only argument in Walton's favor.
 
Certainly on MLK day Lillard is the King.
In the NBA Finals Walton is the Goat.
In the ALL-Star game Drexler takes it hands down.
In a brawl at center court it has to be Lucas!
For times being on the roster it goes to Steve Blake!
For getting us Chalupas it would be the other Luke Babbit!
As far as being the Goat of being a Benedict Arnold we could go with Aldridge.
Goat Frenchman would be Batum.
 
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kjironman1 said:
Certainly on MLK day Lillard is the King.
In the NBA Finals Walton is the Goat.
In the ALL-Star game Drexler takes it hands down.
In a brawl at center court it has to be Lucas!
For times being on the roster it goes to Steve Blake!
For getting us Chalupas it would be the other Luke.
As far as being the Goat of being a Benedict Arnold we could go with Aldridge.
Goat Frenchman would be Batum.
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All time fatty donut eating POS, obviously Felton.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
But we're not talking about some 13 & 7 ham-and-egger. We're talking about:
  • a hall-of famer
  • all-star
  • rebounding leader
  • blocks leader
  • all-defensive team
  • all-NBA team
  • finals MVP
  • league MVP
People using Dave Twardzik as a reference point are being intentionally disingenuous.

It's fine if people are more impressed by the duration of Dame's greatness than the much higher peak of Walton's--there's a valid argument either way. But let's not pretend that anyone's saying that the title is the only argument in Walton's favor.
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With all due respect, and again, I LOVE BILL WALTON....
But...it IS just about the championship with him.
Otherwise, 1977-78 make him a notch above Brandon Roy or even Billy Ray Bates...
He, as a Portland Trail Blazer, had 120 great games...
 
Shaboid said:
All time fatty donut eating POS, obviously Felton.
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Nice!
Thanks for cleaning up my obvious omission.
I know there are more but I’m having a block and don’t exactly know how to address the multiple bad #1 draft picks.
 
Wade Garrett said:
With all due respect, and again, I LOVE BILL WALTON....
But...it IS just about the championship with him.
Otherwise, 1977-78 make him a notch above Brandon Roy or even Billy Ray Bates...
He, as a Portland Trail Blazer, had 120 great games...
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I’m with ya on this. Love Walton and what he gave the team but Drex and Lillard have done a bunch more.
 
kjironman1 said:
I’m with ya on this. Love Walton and what he gave the team but Drex and Lillard have done a bunch more.
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And therein is what creates the discussion. Drexler and Lillard did more, and Drexler at a higher level in terms of Playoff accomplishment, but does that equal 'Greater'? It's a bit like baseball. Is a compiler who won 250 games 'Greater' than Sandy Koufax who only won 165?
 
Wade Garrett said:
With all due respect, and again, I LOVE BILL WALTON....
But...it IS just about the championship with him.
Otherwise, 1977-78 make him a notch above Brandon Roy or even Billy Ray Bates...
He, as a Portland Trail Blazer, had 120 great games...
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Sorry, but no. Being league and finals MVP are massive accomplishments far above anything Roy did. They're not comparable.

The title is a significant notch on Walton's belt--arguably the most important one--but those other accomplishments/accolades are also relevant. This is why nobody ever tries to argue Maurice Lucas as the Blazer GOAT. I mean, he won a title, he made 3 all-star games with the Blazers, he was all-NBA 2nd team in '78 and all-defense in 78 and 79...but he wasn't on par with Bill Walton, and nobody pretends he was.
 
TBpup said:
And therein is what creates the discussion. Drexler and Lillard did more, and Drexler at a higher level in terms of Playoff accomplishment, but does that equal 'Greater'? It's a bit like baseball. Is a compiler who won 250 games 'Greater' than Sandy Koufax who only won 165?
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Also, Dame getting his numbers in en era that plays no defense... his stats definitely inflated
 
Games played mattered. Walton was an amazing talent, but his impact was limited because he couldn't stay on the floor. I'm not saying it was his fault, but being present matters. Walton didn't even have a Koufaxian career--he had basically one and a half transcendent seasons and that was it as far as peak. That peak did bring in a title, so that's a huge mark in his favor for impact. I don't have any issue with people picking Walton as the Blazers GOAT, but I don't think peak is all that matters. A combination of peak and career accomplishment needs to be considered, and I'd probably lean to Drexler for that.
 
The obvious answer is Jason Jennings. Anyone who disagrees should delete their account.

barfo
 
e_blazer said:
Personally, I discount Bill because of the short span as a Blazer and the fact that he was so quick to turn his back on his team and the city.
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Bullshit. Sorry, man, but Bullshit. The Blazers training staff and doctors back then (Ron Culp) were fucking amatuers. Sports medicine was in its infancy to be sure, but Bill's foot was BROKEN, and the staff's answer to it was pump him full of painkillers and tell him to get back out there. Watch the first games of the Blazer/Sonic series in 78. There's NO FUCKING WAY a player with that kind of injury would be let anywhere near the court today, but the team was so terrified of losing their newfound status that they convinced Bill to take the shots, play through the pain, and in Game 2 of that series, his foot bones shattered, and he was so painkilled that he didn't even feel it. It was flat criminal what the team did to him. And as a 26 year old, he focused his anger broadly about the situation, which any one of us might have done in his situation. Bill has come back multiple times over the years and apologized to the fans for his behavior, but he should never have to apologize for what the team doctors did to him. It took YEARS for Bill to heal semi-properly, and he was never the same player again. He also dealt with a lifetime of foot and back pain.

The fact that we got to witness 1.5 years of, at his peak, maybe the greatest overall center in the history of the NBA is something we shouldn't discount or take for granted.
 
chris_in_pdx said:
Bullshit. Sorry, man, but Bullshit. The Blazers training staff and doctors back then (Ron Culp) were fucking amatuers. Sports medicine was in its infancy to be sure, but Bill's foot was BROKEN, and the staff's answer to it was pump him full of painkillers and tell him to get back out there. Watch the first games of the Blazer/Sonic series in 78. There's NO FUCKING WAY a player with that kind of injury would be let anywhere near the court today, but the team was so terrified of losing their newfound status that they convinced Bill to take the shots, play through the pain, and in Game 2 of that series, his foot bones shattered, and he was so painkilled that he didn't even feel it. It was flat criminal what the team did to him. And as a 26 year old, he focused his anger broadly about the situation, which any one of us might have done in his situation. Bill has come back multiple times over the years and apologized to the fans for his behavior, but he should never have to apologize for what the team doctors did to him. It took YEARS for Bill to heal semi-properly, and he was never the same player again. He also dealt with a lifetime of foot and back pain.

The fact that we got to witness 1.5 years of, at his peak, maybe the greatest overall center in the history of the NBA is something we shouldn't discount or take for granted.
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I agree with every word.
For 120 games, Big Bill was the greatest basketball player Ive ever seen...bar none!!!!
But still taking Damian, career wise.
 
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