Whose funeral would Jesus cancel?

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OdenRoyLMA2 said:
Nope, not at all. I just think gay people whine too much for how much this society caters to them.
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So, what part of that isn't "shut up?" Do you feel "stop whining" and "shut up" are different sentiments?

I feel like your response validates my translation, but the fact that you don't want to claim ownership of that wording illustrates that you realize it's a pretty poor outlook.
 
Minstrel said:
So, what part of that isn't "shut up?" Do you feel "stop whining" and "shut up" are different sentiments?

I feel like your response validates my translation, but the fact that you don't want to claim ownership of that wording illustrates that you realize it's a pretty poor outlook.
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Fine then, "shut up".
 
Good for you. I know my intents and where I stand and I'm not playing your little games.
 
crandc said:
A Florida man named Julion Evans died several weeks ago from a rare and painful disorder that slowly destroys nerves, digestive system and organs. He had a large family and circle of friends who wanted to hold the funeral service in the church his family attended. The day before the servicethe pastor canceled, leaving the mourners stuck with no place for the funeral service. The pastor only learned when he read the obituary in the newspaper that the deceased had been married to his male partner of 17 years.

Explaining that the deceased' "lifestye" (by which I guess is meant married, monogamous, church-going Christian) would render the service "blasphemy" adding that as being "man of God", Pastor TW Jenkins canceled the service.

Which reminds me of the old joke "thank God I'm an atheist".
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Christ would not have canceled any funerals, because he loves all equally, even though people like the pastor, and those who directly on the other side (wink) are very quick to judge
 
I wonder if the good pastor will now return any donations and tithes this disreputable family has made to the church?
 
I think extreme positions and actions can be found in all beliefs:

For Debbie Burton, who was married to a Jew and raising her kids as Jews but wasn’t Jewish herself, exclusion from synagogue ritual roles never really bothered her until her daughter’s bar mitzvah, when she was told she could not speak from the pulpit of her Chicago-area synagogue.
“It was the first time that I had ever felt that I was excluded from a minyan activity because I was not Jewish,” Burton, a professor of mechanical engineering at Northwestern, wrote in a 2010 essay for Interfaithfamily.com. “I was hurt to feel prevented from publicly sharing my thoughts on the occasion of a Jewish milestone of my child. After all, even though I wasn’t Jewish, I had played an important role in my children’s Jewish education and upbringing.”
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
I think extreme positions and actions can be found in all beliefs:

For Debbie Burton, who was married to a Jew and raising her kids as Jews but wasn’t Jewish herself, exclusion from synagogue ritual roles never really bothered her until her daughter’s bar mitzvah, when she was told she could not speak from the pulpit of her Chicago-area synagogue.
“It was the first time that I had ever felt that I was excluded from a minyan activity because I was not Jewish,” Burton, a professor of mechanical engineering at Northwestern, wrote in a 2010 essay for Interfaithfamily.com. “I was hurt to feel prevented from publicly sharing my thoughts on the occasion of a Jewish milestone of my child. After all, even though I wasn’t Jewish, I had played an important role in my children’s Jewish education and upbringing.”
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Honestly, she could have stood up from her chair and addressed her son and the rest of the people in attendance. I'm not seeing a problem with her not being able to speak from the pulpit.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Honestly, she could have stood up from her chair and addressed her son and the rest of the people in attendance. I'm not seeing a problem with her not being able to speak from the pulpit.
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I guess my thought is sometimes decisions are made based on belief that really don't seem to take into consideration the actual situation.

She was excluded from doing something that was important to her as a mother and denied to speak about her daughter from a pulpit that father can go up and speak at.

Stand on a chair, really? Why not just dress her in a clown suit and have do soft shoe tap dance in front of the guest . . . has as much dignity as standing on a chair saying something about your own daughter while dad says things for a pulpit.

Not as extreme as this pastor, but often I wonder about decisions that are made in the name of faith. Deny a venue based on what the faith says . . . I wish sometimes they would just stop and think about the situation and allow a little humanity into the equation.
 
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Treaty_of_Batum said:
I guess my thought is sometimes decisions are made based on belief that really don't seem to take into consideration the actual situation.

She was excluded from doing something that was important to her as a mother and denied to speak about her daughter from a pulpit that father can go up and speak at.

Stand on a chair, really? Why not just dress her in a clown suit and have do soft shoe tap dance in front of the guest . . . has as much dignity as standing on a chair saying something about your own daughter while dad says things for a pulpit.

Not as extreme as this pastor, but often I wonder about decisions that are made in the name of faith. Deny a venue based on what the faith says . . . I wish sometimes they would just stop and think about the situation and allow a little humanity into the equation.
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I didn't say stand on a chair. I said stood up from her chair. Much like someone gives a speech or a toast at a wedding.

I look at it being similar to a non Christian taking the sacraments during a Christian church service. You are welcome to be there but you really don't belong eating the body and blood of Christ.

I'm sure the mother was welcome to speak at her son's Bar Mitzvah but not from the pulpit, which has religious significance to them.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I didn't say stand on a chair. I said stood up from her chair. Much like someone gives a speech or a toast at a wedding.

I look at it being similar to a non Christian taking the sacraments during a Christian church service. You are welcome to be there but you really don't belong eating the body and blood of Christ.

I'm sure the mother was welcome to speak at her son's Bar Mitzvah but not from the pulpit, which has religious significance to them.
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Well Ok. But she is a professor of mechanical engineering at Northwester who said she was hurt she felt prevented from publicly sharing her thoughts about her daughter. So not exactly sure how you are so sure she was welcome to speak about her daughter at the Bar Mitzvah.

I'm guessing for the pastor in the OP, the church has a religious significance to him. The family and guest could have just stood outside in the parking lot and shared their thoughts there . . .
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
Well Ok. But she is a professor of mechanical engineering at Northwester who said she was hurt she felt prevented from publicly sharing her thoughts about her daughter. So not exactly sure how you are so sure she was welcome to speak about her daughter at the Bar Mitzvah.

I'm guessing for the pastor in the OP, the church has a religious significance to him. The family and guest could have just stood outside in the parking lot and shared their thoughts there . . .
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I don't know what happened, I just read it differently than you did. No clue if I'm right.
For Debbie Burton, who was married to a Jew and raising her kids as Jews but wasn’t Jewish herself, exclusion from synagogue ritual roles never really bothered her until her daughter’s bar mitzvah, when she was told she could not speak from the pulpit of her Chicago-area synagogue.
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I read it as she was not able to speak from the pulpit, not that she wasn't allowed to speak at all.

That said, I'm not Jewish, have never been to a Bar Mitzvah and don't know if she would be allowed to speak from where she was sitting.
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
Well Ok. But she is a professor of mechanical engineering at Northwester who said she was hurt she felt prevented from publicly sharing her thoughts about her daughter. So not exactly sure how you are so sure she was welcome to speak about her daughter at the Bar Mitzvah.

I'm guessing for the pastor in the OP, the church has a religious significance to him. The family and guest could have just stood outside in the parking lot and shared their thoughts there . . .
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What's really odd about this is being Jewish is passed down from the mother, not the father. So if the mother isn't Jewish I'm not sure if the daughter should even be having a Bar Mitzvah.

http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoma...Jewishness-Passed-Down-Through-the-Mother.htm
 
SlyPokerDog said:
What's really odd about this is being Jewish is passed down from the mother, not the father. So if the mother isn't Jewish I'm not sure if the daughter should even be having a Bar Mitzvah.

http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoma...Jewishness-Passed-Down-Through-the-Mother.htm
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That's kind of my point with faith. The daughter was raised jewish, bar mitzvah is a big deal, let the father and mother speak about their daughter from the pulpit on this one day celebrating their daughter. But I'm sure jewish people will tell me it 's a big deal speaking from the pulpit and how wrong it is to let someone not jewish speak from a pulpit . . . maybe not even have a bar mitzvah because mother isn't officially jewish.

Just like this pastor. The family and friends were there to have a funeral for someone. Let them have the funeral there. But I'm sure the pastor will say having a funeral for a gay person in that church is a big deal and how wrong it is to have it in that church.
 
A daughter could not have a Bar Mitzvah, she has a Bat Mitzvah. A minyan is part of a religious service, not a civil right; my question would be why the mother had never converted?

Be that as it may...I'm going to rant.

The previous Iraqi government was murderously repressive of any dissent. But minority religions, if they stayed out of politics, were pretty much left alone; they could have their schools, places of worship, customs. After 12 years of a war that would last weeks, not months or years, after a trillion dollars spent on a war that would pay for itself, after the deaths of thousands of US troops who would be greeted as liberators and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, after mission accomplished and Iraq is free and insurgency in its last throes, now, there is serious religious oppression in Iraq, of all minority religions. And US fundamentalists have been strangely silent although it has been going on for years. It's those heathens in Amnesty International, of which I am a card carrying member, who have sent out alerts and action items protesting oppression of Iraqi Christians and others.

But it's OK for a bigoted pastor to distress a family in mourning because of Iraq.

Conservative US evangelicals have been all over talk shows crying about how oppressed they are because gay people exist and are getting married and even want to spend hundreds of dollars on wedding cakes. They didn't talk about Iraq. On this board, MarAzul is outraged that gay people say we are gay, OdenRoyLMA2 copies from a creationist web site and claims to have disproven 150 years of science, PapaG/NewsSource starts half a dozen threads daily about the OUTRAGE of the Obama administration, but until today nothing about Iraq's Christians.

But it's OK for a bigoted pastor to distress a family in mourning because of Iraq.

Not that the conservative US evangelicals ignore the rest of the world. They helped write the antigay law in Russia, that makes being gay a crime and supporting gay rights a crime. Gay youth are being regularly beaten and tortured and the videos posted on line but if they report the attacks they get arrested. US evangelicals helped write the "kill the gays" bill in Uganda, later changed to "imprison the gays for life". They said that unless these bills were passed African and Russian Christians would be "oppressed" by gays just like American Christians are. And praised Putin as a fine Christian leader. Meanwhile Iraqi Christians were being murdered and only Amnesty International said anything.

But it's OK for a bigoted pastor to distress a family in mourning because of Iraq.

You hate rape, OdenRoyLMA2? So do I. There are thousands of Central American children seeking refuge in the US who face an enormous risk of rape and murder in their home country. What is your response? Send them back? American women are raped, too. They undergo rape exams that take 3-4 hours and that many women say are worse than the rape, hoping to provide evidence to convict the rapist. Hundreds of thousands of rape kits sit untested due to lack of funds. Last week Senate Republicans blocked a bill to fund testing of rape kits. Did you protest?

Frankly, I don't think OdenRoyLMA2 give a flying fuck about women being raped. I think he just found some web page mocking gay people.

Since OdenRoyLMA2's knowledge is limited to what he can copy/paste, he probably does not know about the origins of the word "***got". It meant bundles of kindling. And in medieval Europe men charged with homsexuality were tied together in bundles and burned to death. They were literally ***gots. Real inconvenient, no? I doubt OdenRoyLMA2 knows where the pink triangle comes from - the badge that was put on gays in Nazi death camps, before they were gassed. Pretty inconvenient? In THIS century in THIS country, "reparative therapy" consists of electric shock to the genitals, forced vomiting, even lobotomy to "cure" gays. Also just an inconvenience. As was/is the castration of gay men and the rape of lesbians. Yes, we privileged gays just suffer a few inconveniences, don't we?

But it's OK for a bigoted pastor to distress a family in mourning because of Iraq.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Christ would not have canceled any funerals, because he loves all equally, even though people like the pastor, and those who directly on the other side (wink) are very quick to judge
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I read this entire pathetic thread and am happy to see at least one person has an understanding of the situation. It is so much easier to spew hate and drag unrelated personal interests into story.
 
crandc said:
A daughter could not have a Bar Mitzvah, she has a Bat Mitzvah. A minyan is part of a religious service, not a civil right; my question would be why the mother had never converted?

Be that as it may...I'm going to rant.

The previous Iraqi government was murderously repressive of any dissent. But minority religions, if they stayed out of politics, were pretty much left alone; they could have their schools, places of worship, customs. After 12 years of a war that would last weeks, not months or years, after a trillion dollars spent on a war that would pay for itself, after the deaths of thousands of US troops who would be greeted as liberators and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, after mission accomplished and Iraq is free and insurgency in its last throes, now, there is serious religious oppression in Iraq, of all minority religions. And US fundamentalists have been strangely silent although it has been going on for years. It's those heathens in Amnesty International, of which I am a card carrying member, who have sent out alerts and action items protesting oppression of Iraqi Christians and others.

But it's OK for a bigoted pastor to distress a family in mourning because of Iraq.

Conservative US evangelicals have been all over talk shows crying about how oppressed they are because gay people exist and are getting married and even want to spend hundreds of dollars on wedding cakes. They didn't talk about Iraq. On this board, MarAzul is outraged that gay people say we are gay, OdenRoyLMA2 copies from a creationist web site and claims to have disproven 150 years of science, PapaG/NewsSource starts half a dozen threads daily about the OUTRAGE of the Obama administration, but until today nothing about Iraq's Christians.

But it's OK for a bigoted pastor to distress a family in mourning because of Iraq.

Not that the conservative US evangelicals ignore the rest of the world. They helped write the antigay law in Russia, that makes being gay a crime and supporting gay rights a crime. Gay youth are being regularly beaten and tortured and the videos posted on line but if they report the attacks they get arrested. US evangelicals helped write the "kill the gays" bill in Uganda, later changed to "imprison the gays for life". They said that unless these bills were passed African and Russian Christians would be "oppressed" by gays just like American Christians are. And praised Putin as a fine Christian leader. Meanwhile Iraqi Christians were being murdered and only Amnesty International said anything.

But it's OK for a bigoted pastor to distress a family in mourning because of Iraq.

You hate rape, OdenRoyLMA2? So do I. There are thousands of Central American children seeking refuge in the US who face an enormous risk of rape and murder in their home country. What is your response? Send them back? American women are raped, too. They undergo rape exams that take 3-4 hours and that many women say are worse than the rape, hoping to provide evidence to convict the rapist. Hundreds of thousands of rape kits sit untested due to lack of funds. Last week Senate Republicans blocked a bill to fund testing of rape kits. Did you protest?

Frankly, I don't think OdenRoyLMA2 give a flying fuck about women being raped. I think he just found some web page mocking gay people.

Since OdenRoyLMA2's knowledge is limited to what he can copy/paste, he probably does not know about the origins of the word "***got". It meant bundles of kindling. And in medieval Europe men charged with homsexuality were tied together in bundles and burned to death. They were literally ***gots. Real inconvenient, no? I doubt OdenRoyLMA2 knows where the pink triangle comes from - the badge that was put on gays in Nazi death camps, before they were gassed. Pretty inconvenient? In THIS century in THIS country, "reparative therapy" consists of electric shock to the genitals, forced vomiting, even lobotomy to "cure" gays. Also just an inconvenience. As was/is the castration of gay men and the rape of lesbians. Yes, we privileged gays just suffer a few inconveniences, don't we?

But it's OK for a bigoted pastor to distress a family in mourning because of Iraq.
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*edited: Do it without the insults, thanks*
Yeah it pisses me off you of a mini minority set copped a fine word for your own minor agenda and are about to do the same with the concept of marriage. But I can live with it, perhaps a jab in the ass here and there, just for kicks. *edited*

Oh and by the way, I would not waste one more fine American service person on Iraq, be he or she, atheist or Christian. I suggest leaving the Sunnis to the Shia to determine the out come.
I do feel empathy for the Christians in the area, but damn! The should have seen it coming for a long time. I would send arms to the Kurds to defend themselves But no more American blood while the Sunnis and the Shia have a battle to fight. Just when I think Barrack Obama might do something right, it last but weeks then he fucks it up.
 
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*edited: Re-posting insults will just move you closer to a suspension, so please don't do it*
 
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MarAzul said:
*edited: Re-posting insults will just move you closer to a suspension, so please don't do it*
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this is all fine and dandy, I have only one request. I want to be the one that gets to edit Minstrel.....


edited because confronting an egotistical mod is grounds for being banned
 
Minstrel said:
I've never banned anyone nor pushed for anyone to be banned. Confront me all you'd like.
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yet you threaten to ban MarAzul, edit his days old post..for what end? And dont give me the standard bull shit about attack the post and not the poster. I have seen what he wrote..it was no harsher that what he was responding to. I have seen how you interact with those that you disagree, one of the several reason that I choose to pay little if any attention to you. I ask that you not let your over inflated sense of self worth blind you to your own faults.
 
DaLincolnJones said:
yet you threaten to ban MarAzul, edit his days old post..for what end?
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Not a ban, a suspension. Rules must be followed, deviance is verboten...err, sorry, slip of the tongue.

Also, days old? You might want to recheck the time stamps on the posts and the edits.

As for why I edited them, it's because we believe in only attacking posts, not the posters.

And dont give me the standard bull shit about attack the post and not the poster.
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Oh.

I ask that you not let your over inflated sense of self worth blind you to your own faults
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I'm not sure where you got the impression that I think I'm perfect. I'm probably not perfect and I accept that.
 
Oh, thank you for correcting me on the date stamp issue..as for the rest, meh semantics. I believe that you are bright enough to get my point, may be I have over estimated you. Impress me. Treat one of your ilk with the same manor..instead of going after someone you do not agree with.
 
DaLincolnJones said:
Oh, thank you for correcting me on the date stamp issue..as for the rest, meh semantics. I believe that you are bright enough to get my point, may be I have over estimated you. Impress me. Treat one of your ilk with the same manor..instead of going after someone you do not agree with.
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Marazul did post some very rude things. When he saw that Minstrel had deleted them he went and posted them again. I was kind of shocked when I read what Marazul posted and since I was busy with the unfolding PapaG situation I asked Minstrel to handle it. With the exception of the banning/suspension mistake he handled things more politely than I would have.
 
DaLincolnJones said:
Impress me. Treat one of your ilk with the same manor..instead of going after someone you do not agree with.
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I'll edit out personal attacks, regardless of whether I agree with the person's politics or not. If you think I've missed personal attacks, feel free to PM me.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Marazul did post some very rude things. When he saw that Minstrel had deleted them he went and posted them again. I was kind of shocked when I read what Marazul posted and since I was busy with the unfolding PapaG situation I asked Minstrel to handle it. With the exception of the banning/suspension mistake he handled things more politely than I would have.
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Had it been you, I would have never questioned the motivation, where as with the mod who took action, well need I say more?
 
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