Why does Shawn Marion get no cred?

[Jon_Vilma]

Statistically (basked on average rankings in all catagories [points, rebounds, blocks, steals, assists, FG%, FT%, 3PM, and Turnovers]) the best player in basketball over the past 3 years was not even mentioned today on the Dan Patrick Show when they were talking about "The Best Player in the NBA" They were talking about Kobe, Lebron, D-Wade, Chris Paul, and Yao Ming. But no mention of Shawn Marion.While he is not only the statistically best player in the NBA, players who play with him are better than they were before or are after. You can chalk some of that up to the system in Pheonix, just as you can chalk a WR's success in Indianapolis up to the system... but you can't say playing with Peyton doesn't help either.Currently, this year, Marion is the 5th best by average statistical ranking... and he is having a down year.Kobe is an amazing shooter.Artest is an amazing defender.Marion is both.Why does Shawn Marion get no cred?

 

[Sunset]

Because he's short. Because ESPN is dumb.Because there's other good players on the team.Because the world is unfair.I don't know. You're right though.

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaroonNGold @ Dec 2 2006, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Because he's short. Because ESPN is dumb.Because there's other good players on the team.Because the world is unfair.I don't know. You're right though.</div>6'7" isn't short for a Small Forward.ESPN is dumb.True, but save for Amare who was drafted by the Suns, they are players who were mediocre before playing with Marion when they played for other teams. Diaw was a bum in Atlanta and Nash was an average PG in Dallas. Barbosa, Bell, Diaw... how come anyone who plays with him looks good?Look at it this way: Stephon Marbury was a top 3 PG in the NBA when he played with Marion, now he is benched and was never as good as his Phoenix days. Steve Nash was decent in Dallas, then amazing in Phoenix. Nash's replacement in Dallas (Jason Terry) has had better stats than Nash did there. So is Terry better than Nash, or is there just something about Marion?

 

[Brooksie5]

Best player in the NBA.. haha. Good one. He's a fucking stallion.. but he's not the best in the NBA. I agree he deserves a lot more credit, but like M&G said, he has too many other good players on his team. And that probably helps him with every single statistical category.

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brooksie5 @ Dec 2 2006, 11:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Best player in the NBA.. haha. Good one. He's a fucking stallion.. but he's not the best in the NBA. I agree he deserves a lot more credit, but like M&G said, he has too many other good players on his team. And that probably helps him with every single statistical category.</div>Jordan wasn't one of the best, he had Pippen, Armstrong, Grant, Rodman, Harper, Kerr, Kukoc, Paxson, and Cartwright... all of which have been/will at least be nominated if not elected into the Hall of Fame.I'm sure Jordan didn't benefit from the talent around him, we shouldn't consider him great.Bill Russell played with 11 Hall of Famers. Was he not a top 10 player of all time? Granted Wilt overshadows him, but still.

 

[Nebkreb]

to compare Wilt, Russell or Jordan to Marion is crap. Russell and Wilt would have dominated then, now, the 80s, anyimte. Jordan was Jordan. but to compare marion to that select group is crap. he isnt even within a lightyear

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nebkreb @ Dec 2 2006, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>to compare Wilt, Russell or Jordan to Marion is crap. Russell and Wilt would have dominated then, now, the 80s, anyimte. Jordan was Jordan. but to compare marion to that select group is crap. he isnt even within a lightyear</div>All I'm saying is that having good players around you shouldn't diminish how good you are. Does it diminish Tim Duncan? And I didn't compare him to The Stilt, I said Russell was overshadowed by Wilt in the same era.And if Marion continues as he has for the past half decade for the next few years, you will have to put him up there with the all time greats. Maybe not Jordan-Wilt-Kareem-Magic level, but definitely Russell-Malone-Barkley level.

 

[Nebkreb]

i dont think u realize how dominant russell was..he was miles ahead of barkley and malonefor me, the upperechelon has 6 people:JordanKareemRussellWiltBirdMagicEveryone else is below them

 

[DevinHester23]

Marion gets no credit b/c Nash is what makes the Suns engine run.

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KyleOrton18 @ Dec 3 2006, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Marion gets no credit b/c Nash is what makes the Suns engine run.</div>The Suns' engine was going just fine with Stephon Marbury starting.And Dallas got better when Nash left and Terry came in. So Nash < Terry. Marion just makes PG's look good.

 

[DevinHester23]

Then why has Phoenix played horrible in the few games Nash has missed over the last 2 years??

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KyleOrton18 @ Dec 3 2006, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Then why has Phoenix played horrible in the few games Nash has missed over the last 2 years??</div>You mean those whole 3 games he missed last year when they were also down Amare? OK, well lets say they played "horrible" it'd be because they still need someone to run the point. Starbury at least had talent to work with, and Nash > Starbury, yes, but Nash isn't God. They need someone with talent at the point, Nash has talent. I didn't say he didn't. But you can't deny that Terry is better in Dallas than Nash ever was. Terry > Nash, plain and simple.Oh, and BTW: the Spurs looked terrible when Tony Parker went out. That doesn't mean Tim Duncan sucks, it means their system needs a talented PG I'd point out how horrible the Suns are without Marion... but he plays in 81 games a year.

 

[chang]

Simply put. Marion has never carried a team.

 

[DevinHester23]

^:yeahthat:

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chang @ Dec 3 2006, 04:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Simply put. Marion has never carried a team.</div>Riiiiiggghhhhhtttt.If he doesn't carry the team, who does? Certainly not Nash, obviously not Amare....

 

[chang]

Last time I checked Steve Nash was 2-time consecutive years MVP.If you think being a 2 time MVP means you don't carry the team, I don't know where else to start arguing.

 

[ortiz34]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Dec 3 2006, 01:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KyleOrton18 @ Dec 3 2006, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Marion gets no credit b/c Nash is what makes the Suns engine run.</div>The Suns' engine was going just fine with Stephon Marbury starting.And Dallas got better when Nash left and Terry came in. So Nash < Terry. Marion just makes PG's look good.</div>Are you kidding me? Terry will never be as good as Nash or should you ever imagine it. Terry doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as him. Alright, I'm over exagerating but I mean come on. Nash is a monster. Just because Terry scores more points or grabs a couple more boards than Nash doesn't make him better. What makes a player better is the impact he has on his team. Like KO18 said, what is the Suns without Nash? As soon as you take him away from the team, you got a bunch of good players that have no one to pass the ball to them. Nash is an MVPMVP = The player who makes the biggest impact on his teamWhich is Nash. Are you saying Terry deserved the MVP? Don't even think about it.

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chang @ Dec 4 2006, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Last time I checked Steve Nash was 2-time consecutive years MVP.If you think being a 2 time MVP means you don't carry the team, I don't know where else to start arguing.</div>And he totally deserved them both too......

 

[Jon_Vilma]

Nash is better than Terry. But any PG in the Suns system looks good.

 

[DevinHester23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Dec 5 2006, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chang @ Dec 4 2006, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Last time I checked Steve Nash was 2-time consecutive years MVP.If you think being a 2 time MVP means you don't carry the team, I don't know where else to start arguing.</div>And he totally deserved them both too......

</div>He did.