Why I don't think this will work

[TBpup]

I've long been under the belief that the Blazers will not go very far with a Dame/CJ back court the way they play right now. Tonight there were more prime examples of why. Portland made this game close with Curry sitting out but in the end, Dame couldn't even get a shot off in about the last 5 minutes because....Klay Thompson. But that wasn't the reason.

Two prime examples occurred near the middle of the 2nd quarter, both involving Noah Vonleh. In the first, there was a switch out high and Noah promptly took the 6'7", stick figure Livingston right to the rim and waited for a pass....that never came. Instead he watched a number of dribbles and then a contested, step-back jumper that missed.

Just a trip or two later, Vonleh set multiple screens as the Blazer guards ran the weave. Finally there was a mix up and Vonleh rolled to the basket completely free of a defender anywhere near him. Did he get an immediate pass to him for an easy dunk? Yeah, you would think but he didn't even get a look. Instead, it was another contested, missed jumper and Golden State was off to the races.

The same thing happened with Mo' Harkless and Allen Crabbe.

Granted, both Dame/CJ are good enough they make their fair share of contested shots but that's not the point. Even if those go it, it wasn't good basketball. Twice in a row, a teammate had a much easier shot or uncontested shot and didn't get so much as a look.

As good of scorers as Dame/CJ are, between the lack of them being very poor defenders and not finding open teammates time after time, limits the ability of this team in the long term unless things change. Also, even when they do pass to a player besides themselves, that play often hasn't had a shot in quite some time even if they were open and have no rhythm or much confidence.

They have some nice wins over good teams lately but in the Celtics win it was a once-a-month performance from Leonard and in the Grizzlies win, it took two '3's from Aminu who hadn't hit two '3's in a game in almost a month. Tonight Biebs was a complete no-show and Aminu had more air-balls from '3' (2) than makes (1). Counting on either of those two things seems optimistic at best.

Somehow they need more consistent performances out of guys not getting consistent touches....a tough ask.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Cj package for butler or cousins please.

The warriors went through the same damn thing with curry and monta ellis. We have to trade one, lillard will never be traded for multiple reasons.... so its cj that has to go. Just make sure its for a better 2 way player.

 

[Chris Craig]

We need to trade CJ

 

[TBpup]

Cj package for butler or cousins please.

The warriors went through the same damn thing with curry and monta ellis. We have to trade one, lillard will never be traded for multiple reasons.... so its cj that has to go. Just make sure its for a better 2 way player.

Tw0-way is the key. If it was just one of Dame/CJ that was such a poor defender, you could hide them like the Warriors to with Curry. But since it's both of them and that is the first line of defense, it puts the Blazer bigs who also aren't very good in a very tough position.

 

[A$AP Meyers]

This organization is hell-bent on keeping them together. Right now is the best time to trade them, I'm not sure either of their stocks could go any higher.

 

[KingSpeed]

No we don't need to trade our best player (CJ). Bad idea. He's much much much better than Monta Ellis was, by the way. Guys, we basically won tonight. Ever since the lineup change, we have been GREAT. We'll lose some games along the way, of course, but we'll most of our remaining games. I believe that to be true.

 

[KingSpeed]

This organization is hell-bent on keeping them together. Right now is the best time to trade them, I'm not sure either of their stocks could go any higher.

Neither is an All Star

 

[ripcityboy]

Yeah. The makeup of this team means that two shoot first point guards that can't play D.... It just isn't going to work. Hopefully, Olshey realizes this sooner rather than later. Of course, his job might depend on it.

 

[KingSpeed]

Yeah. The makeup of this team means that two shoot first point guards that can't play D.... It just isn't going to work. Hopefully, Olshey realizes this sooner rather than later. Of course, his job might depend on it.

If Turner hit the shot, would you be saying all of this tonight. We can't overhaul our team every time we lose.

 

[BonesJones]

I'm sorry, and I don't mean this personally, but this post is kinda dumb. You know how many times CJ or Dame throws the ball inside just to have the big men turn down close shots to kick it out to someone like Aminu on the arc? These bigs turn down so many shots, and many times they may be open, but CJ or Dame doesn't have a window to pass them the ball.

You need a window to deliver the ball. There was a couple times where big men were open and CJ and Dame turned the ball over trying to force a pass through a window that wasn't there.

Why wasn't the window there? Because Turner and Aminu were in the game meaning that they packed the defense because neither of them are much of a threat from the arc.

So the solution is to get shooters to open up the court, and thus, open up passing lanes.

Everyone loves to blame CJ and Dame for everything, but there's multiple parts to every play that you have to look at.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zrdsavo

Picks would be involved obviously.

 

[BonesJones]

If Turner hit the shot, would you be saying all of this tonight. We can't overhaul our team every time we lose.

Yeah, it's getting kind of ridiculous where we lose by 2 against Golden State and somebody points out a play or two in the first half and says something like "That's why those two aren't gonna work."

 

[KingSpeed]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zrdsavo

Picks would be involved obviously.

Yikes. Horrible deal for us. How can you want to trade CJ after the game he had tonight?

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Yikes. Horrible deal for us. How can you want to trade CJ after the game he had tonight?

Because Butler is better, I love CJ but Butler's defense would help this team more than CJ's offense.

 

[ripcityboy]

If Turner hit the shot, would you be saying all of this tonight. We can't overhaul our team every time we lose.

I've been saying it since it became obvious. That's not an overhaul, just a change in the makeup of the team. But what we got is what we got! We have to deal with a severely limited means of obtaining players any way.

 

[BonesJones]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zrdsavo

Picks would be involved obviously.

That's an awful trade for us, as well as the Cavs. We'd have even worse role players when ours are already not getting it done. We'd also have less assets to get those role players.

 

[BonesJones]

Because Butler is better, I love CJ but Butler's defense would help this team more than CJ's offense.

Butler's worse offensively, and he wouldn't be able to handle the attention that CJ gets every game. We'd have worse role players and one less shooter. We'd have less assets to fix that problem. That's an awful trade. We need to improve our role players, not trade CJ. Lets stop with this ridiculous crap... I thought we got past the constant trade one of Dame or CJ, and now because we lost by 2 to Golden State, it's starting to ramp up again.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

That's an awful trade for us, as well as the Cavs. We'd have even worse role players when ours are already not getting it done. We'd also have less assets to get those role players.

Defense gets a lot better and we could still move some package of Plumlee/Davis/Vonleh/Leonard for shooting. Probably Plumlee because he is up for a huge deal.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Yeah, it's getting kind of ridiculous where we lose by 2 against Golden State and somebody points out a play or two in the first half and says something like "That's why those two aren't gonna work."

Lol. Neither of them play defense.

And we lost by 2 while they didnt even have curry. Not really something to brag out.

 

[KingSpeed]

Look. We lost tonight because the Warriors manage to pick up Durant without giving up the star players they already have. Durant replaced Harrison Barnes on a team that went 73-9. You need at LEAST three star players to compete in this league. Which MEANS we need to add another star while KEEPING CJ and Dame. Easier said than done. But that is Neil's task and he knows it. Plumlee, Crabbe, and Harkless are having great years. If you can parlay one, two, or all three of them into an All Star, you do it and then fill in the gaps like the 2007-08 Celtics did. Get those three stars and then work out the rest. CJ/Dame/Cousins is a contender but Dame/Cousins isn't. We need all three. Butler/CJ/Dame is a fringe contender if you keep Plumlee. Dame/Butler isn't.

 

[KingSpeed]

Lol. Neither of them play defense.

And we lost by 2 while they didnt even have curry. Not really something to brag out.

The Warriors had three All Stars tonight. We had none. I'm not going to brag about a loss but I don't think we should hang our heads.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Look. We lost tonight because the Warriors manage to pick up Durant without giving up the star players they already have. Durant replaced Harrison Barnes on a team that went 73-9. You need at LEAST three star players to compete in this league. Which MEANS we need to add another star while KEEPING CJ Zane Dame. Easier said than done. But that is Neil's task and he knows it. Plumlee, Crabbe, and Harkless are having great years. If you can parlay one, two, or all three of them in for an All Star, you do it and then fill in the gaps like the 2007-08 Celtics did. Get those three stars and then work out the rest. CJ/Dame/Cousins is a contender but Dame/Cousins isn't. We need all three. Butler/CJ/Dame is a fringe contender if you keep Plumlee. Dame/Butler isn't.

If we traded cj for butler, we still would have two stars and better defense. And we could still try to acquire that 3rd all star. I dont see the problem bruh.

 

[BonesJones]

Defense gets a lot better and we could still move some package of Plumlee/Davis/Vonleh/Leonard for shooting. Probably Plumlee because he is up for a huge deal.

Do you really think that will get you anything good?

So you're grand idea is a lineup of

Lillard / Napier
Shumpert / Turner
Butler / Harkless
??? / ???
Lopez / ???

With a shooter sprinkled in somewhere?

That's awful.

Lol. Neither of them play defense.

And we lost by 2 while they didnt even have curry. Not really something to brag out.

Yeah, it's not like they had 3 all stars and a top 3 player or anything...

 

[Trackjack]

Your not going to see a trade with neither of these guys not right now. But they do need to do something to sign Plum next year though. The people right I would put out there right in a trade it would be Davis, ML,Crabbe. I would take only expiring contracts or draft choices. If Fetus does come back the 2nd unit CJ a player we trade for Aminu and Harkless and Fetus. That front court would great defense unit.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

The Warriors had three All Stars tonight. We had none. I'm not going to brag about a loss but I don't think we should hang our heads.

You also shouldnt become complacent with mediocrity. You should always look to improve.

 

[TBpup]

No we don't need to trade our best player (CJ). Bad idea. He's much much much better than Monta Ellis was, by the way. Guys, we basically won tonight. Ever since the lineup change, we have been GREAT. We'll lose some games along the way, of course, but we'll most of our remaining games. I believe that to be true.

We basically won tonight? Guess I was watching a different game.

If Turner hit the shot, would you be saying all of this tonight. We can't overhaul our team every time we lose.

This has been a theme all season and certainly not just tonight. Even if he makes that shot, the same still applies.

Yeah, it's getting kind of ridiculous where we lose by 2 against Golden State and somebody points out a play or two in the first half and says something like "That's why those two aren't gonna work."

Those were just a couple of examples. I didn't want to make a 2-page long OP pointing out all the examples of this game, this week, this month or this year. And yes, there has to be windows and I know you played ball but so did I and my best friend played D1 with a former #1 pick. So when we talk about this and come to similar conclusions, it's not just idle chatter. Another friend has family in NBA front offices and he sees the same thing.

There are many flaws team wide but this team was supposed to be better after a year of playing together and 2 playoff series and for most of the time, it is 2-on-5 because of the style of our ball dominant guards and Stotts' system.

 

[KingSpeed]

If we traded cj for butler, we still would have two stars and better defense. And we could still try to acquire that 3rd all star. I dont see the problem bruh.

One player doesn't make your defense better. It's a team effort and it's been improving this season.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

One player doesn't make your defense better. It's a team effort and it's been improving this season.

You're right. But it sure as fuck helps when you have one guy that can play great defense instead of two that cant play it at all.

Hard to hide two guards that stink at d.

 

[KingSpeed]

We basically won tonight? Guess I was watching a different game.



This has been a theme all season and certainly not just tonight. Even if he makes that shot, the same still applies.



Those were just a couple of examples. I didn't want to make a 2-page long OP pointing out all the examples of this game, this week, this month or this year. And yes, there has to be windows and I know you played ball but so did I and my best friend played D1 with a former #1 pick. So when we talk about this and come to similar conclusions, it's not just idle chatter. Another friend has family in NBA front offices and he sees the same thing.

There are many flaws team wide but this team was supposed to be better after a year of playing together and 2 playoff series and for most of the time, it is 2-on-5 because of the style of our ball dominant guards and Stotts' system.

I think this team IS better than last year's. And like last year, we have an insanely easy schedule the rest of the way and are already starting to make our run as a result. With Turner instead of Henderson (who I liked), we are better. Both Dame and CJ are better.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Do you really think that will get you anything good?

So you're grand idea is a lineup of

Lillard / Napier
Shumpert / Turner
Butler / Harkless
??? / ???
Lopez / ???

With a shooter sprinkled in somewhere?

That's awful.

Yeah, it's not like they had 3 all stars and a top 3 player or anything...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h4veye6

Do it like this then.

Dame / Napier
Wes / Turner
Butler / Harkless
Vonleh / Davis
Lopez / Leonard

Power forward would be a jumble based on the matchup. Playoffs we'd trim it down to a 7-8 man rotation with Davis/Leonard/Vonleh fighting for minutes.